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  1. #1081
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
    BIB 1- Nothing much wrong with this line of argument in an article, IMO. It's the ones that make links to DV, or focus on the possibility of the cricket bat being used to crush her skull, or that publish unverified stories of pre-trial holiday romances, or that seek to ramp up the moral outrage that perish-the-thought pistorius dates to play football in prison etc that are the problem

    BIB2- your label. It's too simple to say you are either a Reeva supporter or a Pistorius supporter. Surely it's about truth and justice for the sake of all involved parties?

    BIB 3- how can that cognitive leap be made from believing that the verdict /sentence was right and from accepting and exploring other equally viable explanations than the more popular murderer-narrative, to not seeing the terrible death of Reeva steenkamp as the central tragedy? I would have thought that goes without saying. But the tragedy of her untimely death and the circumstances of it don't make him more or less guilty of murder.
    I would not say I am a Reeva supporter. I didn`t know her, I just find her death so needless. Like you I want to see justice done and in this case i do not think that was the result. Even if it was CH, it is still a slap on the wrist type sentence IMO.

    I probably shouldn`t call you a Pistorius supporter and wouldn`t except that you and the other two always excuse or justify his actions. We have been through this before, but every topic that comes up related to his actions before, during and after the trial is somehow justified or explained away. Perhaps it is a reaction to the overwhelming belief on this forum that he is a murderer, but even so, it just makes you look like an apologist for everything he said and did.

    The cricket bat story emerged very early and was quickly quashed. CNN however continued with their `poor Oscar` tone through the whole thing. Did you see any of their coverage and if so, what did you think of it in general and Kelly Phelps in particular?

    Finally, you talk of all the anti Pistorius talk on social media. What about some of the vile things said by the Pistorians about Reeva Steenkamp, with their attitude of if it hadn`t been for that woman our boy wouldn't be in this trouble. That was more disgusting than any rumours of nightclub altercations or new girlfriends IMO.

  2. #1082
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1 View Post
    I would not say I am a Reeva supporter. I didn`t know her, I just find her death so needless. Like you I want to see justice done and in this case i do not think that was the result. Even if it was CH, it is still a slap on the wrist type sentence IMO.

    I probably shouldn`t call you a Pistorius supporter and wouldn`t except that you and the other two always excuse or justify his actions. We have been through this before, but every topic that comes up related to his actions before, during and after the trial is somehow justified or explained away. Perhaps it is a reaction to the overwhelming belief on this forum that he is a murderer, but even so, it just be you look like an apologist for everything he said and did.

    The cricket bat story emerged very early and was quickly quashed. CNN however continued with their `poor Oscar` tone through the whole thing. Did you see any of their coverage and if so, what did you think of it in general and Kelly Phelps in particular?

    Finally, you talk of all the anti Pistorius talk on social media. What about some of the vile things said by the Pistorians about Reeva Steenkamp, with their attitude of if it hadn`t been for that woman our boy wouldn't be in this trouble. That was more disgusting than any rumours of nightclub altercations or new girlfriends IMO.
    I have heard that awful things were said about her, but never really looked into what the Pistorians were saying or doing to be honest. If they posted the comments I have heard they did, then they were indeed vile, spiteful, vengeful venom- completely misplaced and entirely inappropriate. However I wouldn't compare them with the sensationalist articles based on very little but gossip. Rather. I would compare them to the equally vile posts on some forums /newspaper comments /twitter etc making jokes about the likelihood of pistorius being raped in prison.

    Reeva's death was needless - we agree totally on that. It's s pity you see me as an apologist but I don't know that I can change that view. I certainly am not attempting to justify his actions - they were unjustified hence the sentence. But I am definitely interested in testing and scrutinising the state's case and seeing if there are other viable alternative explanations (not excuses)

    I'm really sorry but I didn't see CNN coverage.

  3. #1083
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR_Turner View Post
    I see what you mean but look at the different attitudes to the articles. Posters routinely post articles and then say how awful OP is based on the unconfirmed information in those articles. Another approach is to say that you take these things as unconfirmed and to stick to what was said in court because both sides had the chance to contest what the other said.

    In court cases, the media tend to emphasise the prosecution case because it's more interesting and the defence's 'no, I didn't do that' is not exactly exciting stuff. In court both sides are treated equally. This is another difference - if you get your information from the media and aren't cautious about why the media are reporting things as they are, you will get a pro-prosecution view imo.
    bbm

    I (you meant me) simply make up my mind on the basis of newspaper articles, TV, books, the trial (!!) and other people's opinion.
    I have not studied Jurisprudence (nor English ), which is clear anyway.

    PS: I'm not a Reeva "supporter" - I expect truth and justice.
    Last edited by FromGermany; 08-05-2015 at 05:20 PM.

  4. #1084
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetT View Post
    In all honesty people who jack with crime scenes or evidence...Cindy Anthony comes to mind, should also have some charges brought against them.
    I totally agree. The way it's being brushed off as unimportant or unrelated to the crime defies belief. Why remove evidence unless it was incriminating? There is just no innocent explanation for that, none.

  5. #1085
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
    But I am definitely interested in testing and scrutinising the state's case and seeing if there are other viable alternative explanations (not excuses)

    snipped
    I can't understand this just because you have said many times that Justice was done in this case so there is no injustice served.
    And you have said that the State failed to prove theirs many times too. So why are you still interested in scrutinising the "failed" State's case?

    Secondly, a separate point for me is why haven't you (plural, not just you ) shown any interest in scrutinising the issues with the Defence's case?
    Most of the people who post here seem to be pretty sceptical by nature, not just about OP's version etc.

  6. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by cottonweaver View Post
    I can't understand this just because you have said many times that Justice was done in this case so there is no injustice served.
    And you have said that the State failed to prove theirs many times too. So why are you still interested in scrutinising the "failed" State's case?

    Secondly, a separate point for me is why haven't you (plural, not just you ) shown any interest in scrutinising the issues with the Defence's case?
    Most of the people who post here seem to be pretty sceptical by nature, not just about OP's version etc.
    BIB - that's a very good point. If people claim to be interested in justice, you'd think the massive holes in the defence would spark a little interest too, but no. How about Roger Dixon misleading the court when he used a shorter model to demonstrate what could be seen through the bathroom window by the Stipps? I know supporters will come up with some kind of excuse, but I think it was a deliberate attempt to discredit the Stipps. Dixon was supposed to be an expert for goodness sake, and he used a model 4 inches shorter!


    Nel: You're giving the court an indication of how much the accused would have been visible on his stumps... then you give us a photograph that does not reflect that..... why would you hand in that photograph.... or... even take that photograph

    Dixon: I'm not trying to mislead the court Milady

    Nel: That's what I'm testing... that's what I'm testing. You mentioned the word, Mr Dixon (pause). What I don't understand... if that's what you wanted to point out... why would you not ensure... that the person on his knees... stands on something, er, is lifted... to scale, because you're an expert. Why wouldn't you make sure that his height... is exactly... the height of Mr Pistorius on his stumps. Why would you not do that?

    Dixon - Milady... it is something I omitted. I overlooked it at the time.

  7. #1087
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
    But I asked first... ;-)
    I guess no one will ever know, but I would suspect there might be messages from or about other women that would make Oscar look like a duplicitous snake, maybe other text messages that would have legal ramifications for the "****** thing" that happened to Oscar that day, or maybe Carl just wanted to make sure he covered his own ass and erased any incriminating messages about his own legal problems.

    Whatever was on that phone, Carl and probably Oscar, wanted it wiped clean!

  8. #1088
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    New thread is open and ready for posting. This thread will close in 15 minutes. Thanks.

    Please continue here:
    Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #63 ~ the appeal~

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