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  1. #16
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    I saw this story about Australian tourists



    http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/tra...772411703.html
    Jamie


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    I saw this story about Australian tourists



    http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/tra...772411703.html
    Jamie
    SNIPPET from Jamies link ...

    Their escape from the Superdome had to be clandestine. The tourists left in dribs and drabs, heading for a basketball arena nearby, with the help of an American sergeant.

    Some survivors, angry that they were not going too, tried to pull the tourists back inside. "The last people who were walking out the door were grabbed, were screamed at," she said.


    These people were escaping an evacuation center because they were getting threatened, harrased and worse by people who are suppose to be our good friends and allies.

    Sadly some in that group witnessed the rape of that child and on our news those men and women had tears running down their faces and could hardly speak one guy said "The screams of that kid i'll never forget but mostly i wont forget that people did nothing to stop it, they are animals"
    He also said, thats why we had to get the girls out, they were saying/taunting our girls that there next. He kept saying you would not believe what animals they were.

    BTW most of these aussies didnt even know one another. They just happened to bump into fellow aussies and also some poms (brits ) and these younger ones just stayed together and looked after each other.
    You know what you do in times like this, you look after each other.
    Well some do!

    Tim and Joanne Miller of Rockhampton are expected home by the weekend, after spending two nights under a bridge in New Orleans without money or water.

    Their daughter, Tamara Miller, 27, has spoken to them by phone.
    "They are happy to be out and all, but they are not themselves … Mum was talking about how she was a coward because she ran away," she said.
    "She also told me how she had little pieces of fruit and peanut butter but she was saving them for kids, but then she was talking about how they got out but those little kids are all still there. I think she has that whole survivors' guilt thing."


    BTW These people are the ones the natl guards shot at and the mum, well she is not good at all. She was on tv and she has totally broken down.
    She just kept saying, babies are dying, old people are dying get them help, help these people.

    They are also the ones who got chased/threatened by the ****s and thats why they were hiding under the bridge.

    The media have stopped looking for interviews etc unless they/tourists want to talk, because they said people are just falling apart, they are so traumatised.

    ~aussieblue

    Just my worth. Some days/posts thats real value, on others, I might need to give back change! IMO


  3. #18
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    dunno, Cypros...but I heard this on ABC-TV also

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypros
    I still do not understand why the police were preventing people from walking out of the city. Can somebody please explain this to me?
    Mayor Nagin's statement re West Bank episode

    Quote: Nagin's ire began to rise anew as he recalled a foiled strategy to send able-bodied refugees over the Crescent City Connection to the high ground of the West Bank.

    "We were taking in people from St. Bernard Parish," he said. "If we had a bottle of water, we shared it. Then when we were going to let people cross the bridge, they were met with frigging dogs and guns at the Gretna parish line. They said, 'We're going to protect Jefferson Parish assets.'

    "Some people value homes, cars and jewelry more than human life. The only escape route was cut off. They turned them back at the parish line."



    nola.com Breaking News Log


  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussieblue
    Ok fair enough but how about this (firstly lol it was 20 buses)

    Katrina hit your monday, those buses were to be there Wednesday for those paying tourists.

    So your people didnt even have anything ready to evacuate your own sick children/elderly people.
    As the very angry aussie mum said "we paid and arranged for our own families evacuation, that way it was less of a burden for the americans. We were doing this BEFORE Katrina hit. IF WE COULD DO THAT (get the buses) WHY COULDNT THE AMERICANS DO IT TOO.

    oh and BTW if you actually read the links you will see that a lot were elderly and also at one of those links it states "heaps of people/tourists in wheel chairs, she lost count of how many (i think thats what she said)

    Its a pretty sad thing actually BECAUSE all your saying is (plus your gov)American lives are worth more than your tourists lives.

    Oh and btw what about that Hyatt, lots of those people where americans (hotel mployess and their familys plus gov officals) THEY left in buses BEFORE the tourists that paid for the buses left.
    Those people werent badly sick, they were american employees and our people were still fearing for their lives because of your people and hiding under bridges etc.

    BTW we are (all the countries involved) also waiting to find out what YOUR gov did with those 20 buses and why you yourselfs (your gov) couldnt get buses.

    sheeeeeeeeeeesh you had to rely on tourists to save your people and then what did your people do to the tourists!


    *shakes head*

    ~aussieblue

    In post # 6, you quoted an article that said 10 buses for $25,000. Which is it, or where these two seperate groups.

    I absolutely agree that NO screwed up big time and should have got those sick and elderly out long before katrina hit, and had a better plan in place. They, in my opinion, have a lot to answer for.

    I do not care one iota when those buses were arranged, I still hold my ground that if there were sick, elderly, and children that were in worse shape than tourist, they get evacuated first. I believe most people would feel that way. Anyone with a heart would look at a baby dying of dehydration, elderly in a wheelchair and say, take them first.



    oh and BTW if you actually read the links you will see that a lot were elderly and also at one of those links it states "heaps of people/tourists in wheel chairs, she lost count of how many (i think thats what she said)


    I resent you implying that I am uniformed and do not read. Granted I have not read every single link, but I have read alot, and have watched alot of coverage.

    Its a pretty sad thing actually BECAUSE all your saying is (plus your gov)American lives are worth more than your tourists lives.

    How dare you, I never said that, NEVER! Go back and re-read my post! Dont forget that all the tourist in NO are not all from other countries, alot of them are from other states in America, NO is a big vacation destination for alot of Americans. I think that is very unfair of you to say that the American government thinks American lives are worth more than tourist, America is a very caring country. You had no right to imply that I said that...Go back and re-read my post!

    Oh and btw what about that Hyatt, lots of those people where americans (hotel mployess and their familys plus gov officals) THEY left in buses BEFORE the tourists that paid for the buses left.
    Those people werent badly sick, they were american employees and our people were still fearing for their lives because of your people and hiding under bridges etc.


    It was not only tourist hiding under bridges fearing for their lives, LOTS of people were and STill are. I am just as angry finding out about employees, and gov. families leaving before the sick and elderly as you are. I am not defending that!

    BTW we are (all the countries involved) also waiting to find out what YOUR gov did with those 20 buses and why you yourselfs (your gov) couldnt get buses.

    You know, I do not think the way you keep bolding YOUR people and YOUR government is healthy. It is just pitching a YOU against US mentallity, and it is a very accusing tone.

    sheeeeeeeeeeesh you had to rely on tourists to save your people and then what did your people do to the tourists!


    *shakes head*


    Please do not sheeeeesh me and "shake" your head at me. In my response to this thread I had tried to be open minded and not make any judgements until I felt I had the whole story, I thought I had. I made a very short response that I did not think stepped on any toes, but you sure came back at me swinging. I understand you are angry, but I did not deserve that.


  5. #20
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    Actually lostfaith with what you just (mostly) posted is basicly what ive been saying BUT you skipped some parts

    To go down the list ..

    Thats why i posted those articles because i would like to know that myself, was there 2 lots, 20 buses and 10 buses or did that 10 buses article get the number wrong.
    So its either 20 or 30, which ever it is its still alot of buses that these people could get but your gov couldnt?????????

    You said you dont care when they started getting/organising them BUT you should care because if they could (tourists) then your gov should have been able to get them and have them on standby to get those people out. There would have been less delay for those poor people sitting and waiting.

    Plus I think it was a Brit who said the ones who got the buses were quiet willing to load in kids/elderly who ever needed getting out. That was the plan
    But like she said it didnt matter what their plans were.

    NOW these people want to know what happened with those buses BECAUSE since they found out employees etc were taken out before kids/elderly/sick and even before those who paid for them got out. So what was done with them??????
    No ones holding there breathe expecting to find out what really happened.
    Already theres so much buck passing and spin from your gov depts and i dont think the problem with the tourists will be high on their agenda.

    BTW I did post that not all tourists were from other countries (but that could have been the other days post??)
    So in those todays links I did purposely look for American tourists who were stranded and in one of those articles its a american women tourists who was complaining about what happened with the buses. Wait on, it was a man, his wife and his elderly mother-inlaw who uses a walker from Texas i think.

    He complains because he was told they had to walk to the center and he states about his mother-inlaw and her walker. They actually paid for those buses too. I think thats the link were it states they all lined up ready and waiting for the buses, lots of wheelchairs, the elderly, kids etc first. It sounded very organised actually. Plus they were willing to take others SO i think for sure these people had HEARTS plus very good organising skills.

    So i wasnt just singling out aussies or any other country, there was american tourists too, i know that and i included them.

    As far as you not being empressed with me implying, well im sorry but you said if the buses were taken to transport the elderly wheelchairs etc you would agree or something like that...Well just as i stated above, in one of the links it actually states that. Lots of wheelchairs elderly and people who needed medication etc. Those were to go first. Thats why i said, about its more important getting yours out because those tourists had the same people as you described.

    AND those tourists didnt even get to go on the bus and were there for days later. sheeeeeeeesh think about it WHY couldnt that FEMA take half and leave half for the elderly wheelchair bound tourists. WHY didnt they do that?????????
    They took the buses and then told them to evacuate to that centre AND they had to walk there.
    Even the american staff couldnt believe that FEMA did that.

    I truely cant see how you think thats fair especially when the police chief said those animals/****s were preying on the tourists.
    I think that was said even before the buses were taken, hmmmmmm not sure though???????

    BTW the pitching of the You against US mentality and the accusing tone, i think that comes from all those links and stuff.
    You know how it stated how those people had to band together, help each other because they couldnt get much help alse where. Oh and of course those gangs who were preying on tourists etc

    That mentality isnt nice and i agree with you on that, but as the tourists, the strangers to that city, stated, it was them against us and we had to rely on ourselves mostly. They just seem so in shock about that, as one said "Were in America???".

    Thats really sad considering as that old guy said "we are suppose to be friends/allies but when the going got tough they threw us out, they didnt care, they turned on us.

    I think thats why i and so many are going through anger,hurt,sadness, just the works because what happened to our people and how they were treated just goes to show this "Allies stick together, unity, help each other blah blah blah that Bush always says is actually total crap, its just a lot of talk

    Silly me i have always supported my coutries Prime Minister on his reasonings on why a strong alliance with america is needed. I even voted for him on it. I dont personaly like Bush i think hes weak, hes always got excuses to save his butt and he also lets someone alse take his fall. But i strongly believe in a strong aliance between countries, not only for terrorism but for all things.

    No more though not after how my countrymen have been treated and i think you'll find that with alot of those countries who had people treated in such ways.
    I know the aussies are and the Brits are furious too, we are furious at our governments.

    Im out of here, it does no good anyway

    Just my worth. Some days/posts thats real value, on others, I might need to give back change! IMO


  6. #21
    My turn I guess. I would like to say that I was not talking about anyone on here in particular when I stated that I was tired of hearing about the other countries who thought their people should have been evac first. I agree with lostfaith that if the buses were taken from the tourists to rescue someone who was elderly,young or sick then they should go before the tourists. If the tourists fit in that catagory then they should also be taken out first. It is very sad that the Aussies were being tormented and people were seeking them out to hurt them but they are not the minority here. There were other people who were also tormented. My post was to state that we were not to go and find only tourists so that we could keep the peace with other countries. For you to say that we believe that American lives are more important than people from other countries shows that you know nothing about us. Who is the first to come to the aid of other countries? We are. I also agree about the bold YOUR. Doesn't look good in our eyes. I am sorry your people were left to fend for themselves but so were ours. The Mandatory Evacuation was for people who could find their own means to get out of the city. That would include all of our people. They had no bus plans to remove people before the **** hit the fan. People had to pay for them themselves.


  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by lostfaith
    You know, I don't think the way you keep bolding YOUR people and YOUR government is healthy. It is just pitching a YOU against US mentality, and it is a very accusing tone.
    I agree, 100%.

    Here are just a few comments of an accusatory tone from just ONE of aussie's posts:

    YOUR monday....
    YOUR people.... (x4)
    YOUR own sick....
    YOUR gov.... (x3)
    YOUR tourists....

    First of all, I stopped reading aussie's long-winded, repetitive posts, which do nothing to bolster the lot of us regular, salt-of-the-earth Americans.

    While I agree with aussie's bitterness over poor planning on behalf of our government, I would appreciate her not adding insult to injury, over and over and over again.

    I think all Americans feel a certain amount of shame with regard to the way this tragedy has unfolded. I would venture to say that the pain runs deep, even among those who are indirectly affected.

    WE Americans have pride, WE Americans have strength in facing adversity, and most of us Americans wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I know the final outcome of this tragedy will further unify our citizens, as it always does in any horrific event.

    God Bless America!



  8. #23
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    I've been silent all weekend, and I finally OD'd on the news yesterday afternoon. I do remember the explanation as to why the mayor escorted the tourists to the busses ahead of the lines. Just like Aussie said, these tourists had paid for buses to take them out. Someone commandeered their transportation. I will applaud the mayor for stepping in to help the tourists. There was no reason their buses should have been taken BEFORE the storm arrived, leaving them stranded. That is plain wrong. Those who arranged for their safe evacuation were stranded unnecessarily.

    quote: lostfaith
    I do not care one iota when those buses were arranged, I still hold my ground that if there were sick, elderly, and children that were in worse shape than tourist, they get evacuated first. I believe most people would feel that way. Anyone with a heart would look at a baby dying of dehydration, elderly in a wheelchair and say, take them first.
    I disagree with your statement. These tourists, wherever they were from, (UK, USA, AUS, China, etc.) arranged for their own evacuation. If their buses were re-routed by city officials, then that was just plain wrong. It was also wrong for any official to commandeer the hotels without arranging for these tourists to be totally evacuated and cared for either.

    Just my two cents on this issue.


  9. #24
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    I think the biggest problem with this situation that people from other countries see is, Media was allowed in but our own embassy staff to locate citizens were not. Offered aid was rejected initially. There is a lot of anger that Aussie's for example were not able to get assistance from Embassy staff because the Authorities refused to allow them in, but allowed the media.

    Other countries are gobsmacked that this has been allowed to happen to anyone in a country we believed to be the richest, free country. There is a lot of anger at the moment, that this was allowed to happen to anyone, resident or tourist.


  10. #25
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    I can totally understand why the tourists would be angry, scared, pissed, etc. They did pay for their own buses to take them out. However, I would be more angry at the touring company that DID NOT EVACUATE THEM BEFORE THE HURRICANE HIT. This is totally unacceptable - the tourists should have left New Orleans or not even stopped in NO due to the impending hurricane.

    I don't know if the people driving the tourist buses (scheduled to leave AFTER the hurricane hit) would even be able to get out of the area without someone leading them, especially after the levy broke.

    We are experiencing something that is so large no one seems organized. I wonder now how people handled the earthquake in CA that was so devistating. The tsnaumi (sp) was horrible in and of itself and it was a third world country, we are supposed to be ready, but are we as a people really prepared for "the big one?" The area of ground that was affected by this hurricane/levy break/flooding is the size of GREAT BRITAIN. It would be as if the whole of the UK were under water. I don't know if the best laid plans could actually be much better.

    I will not cast stones at this time, now is the time we must come together to help the people in crisis - there will be "tomorrow" to make those who should be accountable for these mistakes actually accountable.


  11. #26
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    I want to add something for lostfaith. Put this in prospective also, lostfaith. I know your concern for the infants and elderly and even the very poor. I know that you thought it was ok that the buses hired to take the stranded tourists out were used to evacuate others first.

    I put it to you to wonder if it would be ok to commandeer private persons who were leaving in their own vehicles, to evacuate those poor and infirm first? There's a limit to this blame game and excusing poor judgment on the part of local officials.


  12. #27
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    less0305 is offline The face is familiar, but I can't quite remember my name!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarnGoddess
    I put it to you to wonder if it would be ok to commandeer private persons who were leaving in their own vehicles, to evacuate those poor and infirm first? There's a limit to this blame game and excusing poor judgment on the part of local officials.
    Actually, many state emergency plans give the Governor, or anyone under his or her order, the right to commandeer any and all private property, food, clothing, transportation, property, buildings, etc. Although it sounds unfair - I think people would be surprised to know how much the government can take from you at a time of crisis. Now, they have to pay you for it or pay you for its use and/or return it to you when they no longer need it, once you file the appropriate forms, filed in triplicate (LOL). Not meaning to argue, Barn. That's not my intention at all!!! Just wanting everyone to realize they may want to look up their individual state's emergency response plans and just see what it is their own state can or cannot do.
    It's my own two cents. You don't have to read or like it.


  13. #28
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    There was no reason their buses should have been taken BEFORE the storm arrived, leaving them stranded. That is plain wrong. Those who arranged for their safe evacuation were stranded unnecessarily. ....BarnGoddes......

    I might have mis-understood, but I was under the impression that these buses were arranged on Monday,(day of the storm) and arrived on Wed. This is per Aussie's post #6 and #15. So if that info is correct the buses were taken AFTER the storm, not before. I would be really mad at the tourist agent who screwed them over and did not get them out before the storm came. I believe if those buses would have arrived before the storm, they had plenty of notice, they would not have been taken away from them.

    That is plain wrong. Those who arranged for their safe evacuation were stranded unnecessarily......BarnGoddes......

    In my opinion if the buses were arranged on the day of the storm and came 2 days after (Wed.) then the buses were not arranged for safe evacuation, they were arranged for rescue. Why did they not arrange for them before Katrina? Did they possible think the storm would pass over them and they could continue thier vacation, or were they waiting for the tourist company to come thru for them and they did not?

    I do agree with you however on the hotel issue, If they were made to leave they absolutely should have been given and bused to another safe place.


  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarnGoddess
    I put it to you to wonder if it would be ok to commandeer private persons who were leaving in their own vehicles, to evacuate those poor and infirm first? There's a limit to this blame game and excusing poor judgment on the part of local officials.

    Yes, I do think it is o.k. In the aftermath of the storm, not the evacuation of the storm. In the evacuation of the storm, the government of NO should have provided more help to its citizens in getting out of there before Katrina hit. To commandeer private vehicles at that time would have been wrong, they could have used their school buses or chartered buses for their citizens. In the chaos after the storm, I think it is o.k. to commandeer private vehicles in order to save persons in dire straights. I think it is the moral thing to do.

    Now, I do believe these tourist need to be compensated for those buses, they should get back every penny of it, and a apology from NO for not being better prepared. I also think the tourist true anger should be directed at the tourist agency that ditched them. Big lawsuit time in my opinion!

    Oh, and before this is brought up, someone said there were also elderly and wheelchair bound tourist, well they should have been taken out with those buses too. They are exactly the kind of people who should have been among the top priority.


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by less0305
    Actually, many state emergency plans give the Governor, or anyone under his or her order, the right to commandeer any and all private property, food, clothing, transportation, property, buildings, etc. Although it sounds unfair - I think people would be surprised to know how much the government can take from you at a time of crisis. Now, they have to pay you for it or pay you for its use and/or return it to you when they no longer need it, once you file the appropriate forms, filed in triplicate (LOL). Not meaning to argue, Barn. That's not my intention at all!!! Just wanting everyone to realize they may want to look up their individual state's emergency response plans and just see what it is their own state can or cannot do.

    Thanx, I knew I had seen this done in movies, but was not sure about the legal part of it in real life.


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