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  1. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Noirdame79 View Post
    I haven't noticed anyone here condoning the crime. It was never stated, at any time, by the brothers or their defense attorneys, that they had the right to kill their parents because they were abused. The defense strategy was an "imperfect self-defense", that the brothers truly believed their lives were in danger and that their parents would kill them in order to keep them from exposing the family abuse secret.
    They asked for a STANDARD self-defense instruction, meaning NOT GUILTY, the judge who was biased against them, denied it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noirdame79 View Post
    Leaving is always an option
    People are killed after they leave ALL. THE. TIME.

    During the televised trial there were plenty of people who took the position that The Defendants had a right legally to use lethal force, including a Family Court Judge named Daniel Leddy who is local to me and who is quoted in Tammi Menendez' book. There have been cases where women have killed male batterers in their sleep and have gotten off on self-defense, especially in states like Texas where they have stand-your-ground laws. Everyone who believes The Menendez Brothers doesn't necessarily say "Well, I don't condone it BUT......"
    Last edited by Peppermintswirlz; 04-19-2017 at 11:44 AM.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peppermintswirlz View Post

    People are killed after they leave ALL. THE. TIME.

    During the televised trial there were plenty of people who took the position that The Defendants had a right legally to use lethal force, including a Family Court Judge named Daniel Leddy who is local to me and who is quoted in Tammi Menendez' book. There have been cases where women have killed male batterers in their sleep and have gotten off on self-defense, especially in states like Texas where they have stand-your-ground laws. Everyone who believes The Menendez Brothers doesn't necessarily say "Well, I don't condone it BUT......"
    Yes, that's true also. Take Dominick Dunne's daughter, Dominique. She had broken up with her abusive boyfriend, John Sweeney, but he came to her house and strangled her in her own driveway! Yes, I have seen those cases as well, such as Francine Hughes, who set the house on fire where abusive husband was asleep and fled with the children (the basis for the TV movie, The Burning Bed) In the newsreel I shared, it does talk about a teenage girl in Texas who shot her abusive father to death and was acquitted. As for not condoning the crime, I was referring to posters in this thread. I have seen plenty of other comments on other sites which state that pedophiles should be killed, that Jose and Kitty deserved to be murdered. I don't agree with that, because that would encourage vigilante justice. But I can certainly see how abused people can snap, or have fear of the abuser. Having grown up in an abusive home, the latter feeling, especially, is not new to me.

  3. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Noirdame79 View Post
    In the newsreel I shared, it does talk about a teenage girl in Texas who shot her abusive father to death and was acquitted..
    I couldn't find the newsreel you're referring to but if anyone is interested: Attorney Defends Children Who Kill a Parent : Courts: He says most of the young killers suffered years of sexual, physical and psychological abuse.

    Donna Marie Wisener, a captain on her high school majorette team, endured her father, Glenn's, explosive rages and punishing beatings until May 24, 1991, when she shot the 49-year-old truck driver six times with his revolver at their home in Smith County, Tex.

    At her trial, Donna and her mother, Mamie, testified about Glenn Wisener's abusive rages. The jury acquitted Wisener on Feb. 13.

    Mones, a co-counsel in the case, said Donna's defense was the first use of a Texas law enacted in September that allows evidence of family violence to defend a killing.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peppermintswirlz View Post
    The newsreel (shared from youtube) is on page 10. It's about 16 minutes long and contains several news reports of the time as well as footage from the first trial. At one point, it talks about how the battered child defense hasn't gained the same acceptance as the battered woman's defense, and cites two cases where the battered child defense was used; for the young woman, it resulted in an acquittal; in the case of a young man, he was not allowed to claim self-defense in the deaths of his parents and was convicted.

    Thanks for the link and info; I will check it out.

  5. #170
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    Menendez Home Was Violent, Cousin Testifies : Courts: Defendants' father beat them with a belt until they were bruised, and their mother broke dishes and glassware during rages, defense witness says.
    August 18, 1993

    Building a foundation for the defense case, a cousin testified Tuesday that the parents of Lyle and Erik Menendez were violent and would fight with each other, whack their sons with a belt and fling glassware around the kitchen.

    The father, Jose Menendez, would whip his sons with a belt until they were bruised, according to the brothers' cousin Brian A. (Alan) Andersen, who lived with the Menendez family for several summers. Jose Menendez also would drag the brothers into their rooms and lock them there for hours, Andersen said.

    The mother, Kitty Menendez, had immensely bad rages, Andersen said. She would clench her knuckles and grit her teeth while her neck veins would bulge, he said, standing up to show jurors how she looked. She would go to the kitchen cupboards and whip glass cups and saucers into the sink, he said.

    Neither of the brothers, who are on trial in the murder of their parents, showed visible emotion as their cousin testified in Van Nuys Superior Court. "Emotion was something you did not show" in the Menendez household, Andersen said. "It was considered a sign of weakness.

    Lyle Menendez, 25, and Erik Menendez, 22, are charged with first-degree murder in the Aug. 20, 1989, shotgun slayings of their parents, Jose Menendez, 45, a wealthy entertainment executive, and Kitty Menendez, 47. The parents were shot in the den of the family's $4-million Beverly Hills mansion.

    Prosecutors contend that the brothers killed out of hatred and greed, and are seeking the death penalty. The defense concedes that the brothers killed the parents but asserts it was an act of self-defense after years of physical, mental and sexual abuse.

    Andersen, 31, of Lisle, Ill., the son of Kitty Menendez's brother, said he lived with the Menendez family during three summers in the 1970s, but saw no evidence of sexual abuse. When Lyle and Erik Menendez were young, he said, they did shower with their father after tennis lessons.

    And, Andersen said, "as soon as Jose took either one of the boys into their room, the door was locked behind them, and Kitty made clear you did not go down the hallway."

    Some of Andersen's testimony covered a period before Erik Menendez was born. He said Erik Menendez was a sweet baby and a happy-go-lucky child of 4--but that he saw a radical difference in him at age 6, when he seemed withdrawn and introverted.

    Defense lawyers contend that Jose Menendez sexually abused his younger son from the age of 6 to 18.

    Most of Andersen's testimony served primarily to set the scene for what life was like in the Menendez household.

    He said he was not hit by either Jose or Kitty Menendez, but was verbally disciplined and sometimes locked in his room. Andersen said the brothers were also locked up and that while helping them clean their room he once found a Tupperware container filled with feces under a bed.

    With the defense just beginning its case--Andersen was the third defense witness after four weeks of prosecution evidence--Superior Court Judge Stanley M. Weisberg warned the brothers' lawyers to maintain their focus on evidence that is germane to the murder charge.

    "Every time someone picked his nose and the father slapped his hand, that's not going to be before the jury," the judge said. He added: "This is not a novel, where someone's life history is put before a jury. This is a trial."

    Andersen was not, for example, permitted to testify that Kitty Menendez once made French toast for Lyle Menendez and for Andersen--and used 18 eggs in the recipe.

    Defense lawyers Jill Lansing characterized that as evidence of the family's "bizarre rules about food." Weisberg said it was irrelevant to a charge of murder.

    Andersen was allowed to testify that dinner time at the Menendez house was tense.

    "It was very much like a 'Jeopardy' setting with Jose quizzing the kids with the questions of the day. Answers were needed quickly," he said, snapping his fingers in imitation of Jose Menendez.

    "And what if they didn't know the answers?" defense lawyer Jill Lansing asked.

    "They were instructed to put down their knife and fork and go find the answer in a newspaper or encyclopedia," he said, adding moments later, "It was a very tense time. I did not enjoy digesting my food at the dinner table."

    An activity that Jose Menendez apparently enjoyed, Andersen said, was teaching his sons to box. The brothers--9 and 6 at the time--would use pillows for gloves and throw punches at the 16-year-old Andersen, whom Jose Menendez had ordered down on his knees as a target.

    It was a good release for Lyle Menendez, who would otherwise take his anger out on his stuffed animals and rip them apart, Andersen said. Jose Menendez taught his sons to hit in the back or below the belt, Andersen said, and instructed that "the element of surprise was a factor."

    But, Andersen said, the primary purpose for boxing was simple: "Self-defense."


    http://articles.latimes.com/1993-08-..._jose-menendez

  6. #171
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    This article seems to refer to the case featured in the Menendez newsreel regarding a teenage girl who shot and killed her abusive father and was mentioned by Peppermintswirlz.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/14/ne...pagewanted=all

    "Maybe we've jumped that hurdle of being able to show to a jury and a community that a child cannot endure years and years of severe emotional, physical and sexual abuse and not be expected to defend herself at some point," Bryan Johnson, chief defense lawyer said. "And 'defend' is the key word. It's not lashing out in anger."
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 04-20-2017 at 11:00 PM.

  7. #172
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    According to Jose's brother-in-law, Carlos Baralt (husband of Jose's sister Terry), Jose had informed him, in June of 1989, that he wanted to disinherit his sons. Baralt, who was prosecution witness in the second trial, stated that Jose's reasoning was "Lyle was flunking out of Princeton", and he thought Erik lacked toughness, talent and forcefulness. (Let me just say, what a piece of s*** father. Who taught his sons to lie, cheat and steal to get ahead and win? Who refused to believe that his sons could have learning problems? Who controlled, abused and terrorized them? More importantly, your children are not born to fulfill your expectations. This was a classic narcissist).

    It should also be pointed out that Baralt was the executor of the estate, and he controlled the fortune. Therefore, any purchases that Lyle and Erik made had to be approved of and authorized by him.

    Erik testified that his father had told him that he was cut out of the will, because he was not living up to Jose's expectations. Jose's sister, Marta Cano, who was a financial planner, testified that the brothers were surprised at how much money their father had. Both told their aunt they believed that they had been disinherited. In September 1990, while incarcerated in the LA County Jail awaiting trial, Lyle and Erik confided to Carlos and Terry that their parents had abused them. Carlos was shocked because he believed the "happy family" front and thought that Jose was a "nice guy". (At the time, Erik's attorney, Leslie Abramson, was on vacation in Ireland). Marta Cano stated that Lyle and Erik had vowed to go to jail and never reveal the abuse to anyone, but a priest who came to see Erik on a regular basis convinced them to open up.
    Last edited by Noirdame79; Yesterday at 01:29 PM.

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