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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trvl4Lyfe View Post
    Seriously...?
    A law was passed stating that defendants who did not have a proper defense in cases where there was alleged sexual abuse can apply for a new trial. This is in large part because in California many people have been lobbying to change the statute of limitations on sexual abuse. As I have pointed out, Jose Menendez has been accused of molesting young boys when he was an executive at RCA Records in the early to mid 1980s.

    Ricky Martin got his start in a Puerto Rican boy band called Menudo. There were multiple members of Menudo that later claimed they were molested by Jose Menendez, a record exec who orchestrated Menudo’s fame in the U.S. Jose Menedez would later be murdered along with his wife, by their two sons, Lyle and Erik Menendez. The brothers would claim in court, it was years of sexual abuse at the hands of their father that led them to commit the murders.
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 11-03-2016 at 08:53 PM.

  2. #17
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    In the second trial, Judge Stanley Weisberg (who had also presided over the previous Menendez trial) not only barred television coverage, he also put severe limits on what evidence and testimony the defense could use. At the time, both the judge and the District Attorney's Office were under a tremendous amount of pressure to get a conviction, not only because the first trial had ended in hung juries but also due in large part to the OJ Simpson acquittal. Prosecutor David Conn also fought to keep the testimony and evidence from the defense from the first trial out. This included photos of the brothers taken when they were children, in which they were naked and the emphasis was on the lower parts of their bodies. He ultimately won, and the only testimony allowed by the defense until the penalty phase was that of the brothers themselves. They had no family members, friends or experts (on child sexual abuse and medical evidence), as they had had in the first trial, to corroborate their claims. The only other defense witnesses who testified were not permitted to do so until after the brothers had been convicted. The brothers, despite the terrible crime they committed, were still legally entitled to a defense, and the judge and prosecution made sure that they didn't have one. Ironically, it is for this very reason that the brothers can now appeal their case once again. At the time, it was argued that "the battered woman syndrome" could not be used for them because they are male, which is ridiculous because males can be and often are abused. Jose Menendez was 44 years old at the time of his death, and in very good physical shape, so it's not hard to believe that he posed a threat, and he was also a very prominent, powerful individual; and no matter what the parent is always seen has having more credibility in abuse situations, even when the abused children grow up. I speak from personal experience, because by the time I was able to talk about the abuse I suffered as a child, I was accused of lying, told that there was something wrong with me and that I was crazy. Kitty Menendez, while in some ways a victim in her own right, was not an innocent bystander. No matter how bad things got, and how unhappy she and her sons became, she refused to leave the marriage; she always chose to stay with Jose. She essentially chose her husband over her children, and she failed to protect them. The argument that the brothers were adults who could have left is a valid one, but you have to remember that neither Lyle nor Erik had the skills necessary to survive in the real world, because their parents did not allow them to live normal lives. In many ways, psychologically and emotionally, they were still children.

    Most of the brothers' family members rallied to their defense, testified for them in the first trial and remain supportive of them. While they agree that nothing excuses what Lyle and Erik did, they also know that the brothers were not given the unconditional love, nurturing and guidance that they needed.

    It has been confirmed by family members (and by Erik Menendez himself in a taped interview with journalist Robert Rand in October 1989) that Jose showered with his sons, even when they were old enough to do so themselves. This is not normal. Neither is the fact that when the family lived in Calabasas, Jose drilled a hole in the ceiling of Erik's bedroom in order to spy on him. In the first trial, it was ironically, the prosecution who wanted to present this evidence (which Judge Weisberg would not allow), claiming that the reason that Jose did this was because he was "concerned about his son's sexuality". In a blatant attempt to present their own agenda, they overlooked the fact that this behavior on Jose's part was not only highly inappropriate, but actually exposed a disturbing character trait. (The prosecution in both trials was always trying to prove that Erik was gay or bisexual, and that was the real reason that he knew about sex between males, and Jose, who was known to be homophobic, was upset about this. Erik did admit to being confused about his sexuality, and if his father was molesting him, that could account for why. Also, many fathers who sexually abuse their sons are homophobic). Spying on someone in an area that is supposed to be private, such as a bedroom and/or a bathroom, is actually a form of sexual abuse. When Jose Menendez did this, he was committing what is called "psychological incest". Again, this is not normal behavior; parents who are loving, respectful and genuinely concerned about their children do not drill holes in walls or ceilings in their children's bedrooms and spy on them. If this scenario had involved a father spying on a daughter in the same manner, no matter what the reasoning, I highly doubt the prosecution would have tried to present it as evidence; not only would it have been an outrage, but it would have been a benefit to the defense.

    As for the possibility of a third trial, time will tell.
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 11-07-2016 at 12:35 PM.

  3. #18
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    BARBARA WALTERS PRESENTS AMERICAN SCANDALS: COULD THE MENENDEZ BROTHERS GET A RETRIAL?

    On August 20, 1989, Erik and Lyle Menendez shot their parents to death in the living room of their Beverly Hills mansion. Lyle was 21 and Erik was 18 when they murdered their parents. The brothers’ two murder trials were prime tabloid fodder and launched a cable network, Court TV.

    Many people saw the brothers as spoiled rich kids who took drastic action to inherit their father’s considerable wealth. The brothers, and many of the supporters, contended that the young men had been sexually abused by their father for years. And while no one disputes that the handsome and privileged young men shot their parents, many question if the pair were given a fair second trial.

    The first trial resulted in a mistrial because of a split jury, but in the second trial the brothers were found guilty of first-degree murder and sentenced to life without parole. Barbara Walters covered both trials, interviewed the men several times and maintained written correspondence with Erik.

    <modsnip>



    http://crimefeed.com/2015/11/barbara...s-get-retrial/
    Last edited by Coldpizza; 01-05-2017 at 11:24 AM. Reason: To comply with copyright rule/add required link.

  4. #19
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    Some family photos. It should be noted that while pictures often show smiling faces, the reality behind the photo can sometimes be quite different.

    Erik (left) and Lyle



    With their father



    The Menendez family on vacation (I apologize for the small size of the photo and the poor quality)



    Erik and Jose at Erik's high school graduation ceremony, Beverly Hills High School, May 1989


  5. #20
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    Truth and Lies: The Menendez Brothers — American Sons, American Murderers airs Thursday, Jan. 5, 2017, on ABC

    http://people.com/crime/lyle-menende...about-murders/

  6. #21
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    I'll be watching...

  7. #22
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    Watching now. One of the most historical cases in CA.

  8. #23
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    Lyle and Erik Menendez's Cousin Who Testified About Their Sexual Abuse Speaks Out for 1st Time
    Jan 5, 2017

    The cousin of Lyle and Erik Menendez, brothers who were convicted of the 1989 murders of their parents, says she has no doubt the brothers’ parents sexually abused them.

    “I know that they would never, ever have done what they did unless they felt that they had no choice -- that it was either them or their parents,” Diane Vander Molen, who is speaking for the first time since she testified at their trial, told ABC News. “I believe that very strongly.”

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/lyle-erik-m...ry?id=44420173

  9. #24
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    Watching it now.
    These posts are In My Opinion only!

  10. #25
    Me too. Glad I saw this! It seems strange to me that they were tried together.


  11. #26
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    For what it's worth, I always believed Erik and Lyle regarding sexual abuse endured. KM knew and she overlooked it when she, as their mother, should have protected her sons from their father's vulgar years of abuse.

    I do not condone how the brothers solved their painful past by shooting their parents in their own home but both parents let them down hard. I believe the abuse became worse and more intense with Jose knowing Erik wanted to go away to college in order to get away from the incest.

    A new Porsche or a gold Rolex would never erase their damaged youths or mend their broken hearts but they didn't kill their parents so they could have things. They killed their parents because they were horribly and continuously sexually abused, psychologically and verbally abused, for most all of their lives. JMHO

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeDee View Post
    For what it's worth, I always believed Erik and Lyle regarding sexual abuse endured. KM knew and she overlooked it when she, as their mother, should have protected her sons from their father's vulgar years of abuse.

    I do not condone how the brothers solved their painful past by shooting their parents in their own home but both parents let them down hard. I believe the abuse became worse and more intense with Jose knowing Erik wanted to go away to college in order to get away from the incest.

    A new Porsche or a gold Rolex would never erase their damaged youths or mend their broken hearts but they didn't kill their parents so they could have things. They killed their parents because they were horribly and continuously sexually abused, psychologically and verbally abused, for most all of their lives. JMHO
    Very well put. Jose Menendez was a sadistic monster; according to Brian Alan Andersen, a cousin who lived with the family in the 1970s, Jose not only hit his sons with a belt until they were bruised (and took showers with them) but he also physically mistreated Kitty. Andersen stated that he would hear them arguing at night and the next morning Kitty would have bruises on her. She was impaired also by her emotional and mental state but she could have at the very least, told someone what was going on. She chose to stay with Jose and that ultimately sealed her fate. Her husband always came first. As a parent, your children should be your top priority. She also hurt her sons by telling them - in front of others - that she wished they had never been born. That is the most cruel thing that a mother can say to her children. She failed them in so many ways.

    In the book, "Blood Brothers" by Ron Soble and John Johnson, it is mentioned that Jose did hear about the sexual abuse allegations regarding the boy band, Menudo (to whom he had signed to a record deal) and according to his West Coast Consultant, Steve Wax, would "joke about it". What kind of sicko jokes about kids being molested and raped?

    The people who worked under Jose at LIVE Entertainment had their alibis ready when the police questioned them following the murders. They despised him and were not sorry to see him go.

    Lyle and Erik had their spirits broken on a daily basis by the people who were supposed to love them unconditionally and protect them.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noirdame79 View Post
    Very well put. Jose Menendez was a sadistic monster; according to Brian Alan Andersen, a cousin who lived with the family in the 1970s, Jose not only hit his sons with a belt until they were bruised (and took showers with them) but he also physically mistreated Kitty. Andersen stated that he would hear them arguing at night and the next morning Kitty would have bruises on her. She was impaired also by her emotional and mental state but she could have at the very least, told someone what was going on. She chose to stay with Jose and that ultimately sealed her fate. Her husband always came first. As a parent, your children should be your top priority. She also hurt her sons by telling them - in front of others - that she wished they had never been born. That is the most cruel thing that a mother can say to her children. She failed them in so many ways.

    In the book, "Blood Brothers" by Ron Soble and John Johnson, it is mentioned that Jose did hear about the sexual abuse allegations regarding the boy band, Menudo (to whom he had signed to a record deal) and according to his West Coast Consultant, Steve Wax, would "joke about it". What kind of sicko jokes about kids being molested and raped?

    The people who worked under Jose at LIVE Entertainment had their alibis ready when the police questioned them following the murders. They despised him and were not sorry to see him go.

    Lyle and Erik had their spirits broken on a daily basis by the people who were supposed to love them unconditionally and protect them.
    Jose Menendez was a sadistic monster
    One, Erik, or both of those brothers could have played tennis against some big names had they possessed the proper work ethic but they feared their father. They could have been greater tennis players esp., Erik. Jose was always on Erik's back about something keeping EM feeling downtrodden.

    I recall when Erik was living in the guest quarters after disappointing his father once again. Difficult to envision living with constant put downs and condescending comments made by one's own parents. Days and months of fear built up inside of Erik. Shame, fear, pain and hate, from the showering habits, too.

    Jose's just another Jerry S@ndusky, jmho. Both abused their own sons and ruined a line of others due to their own selfish ways. The Ms mother had no friends. Friends might suspect what she already knew so she became a recluse and a tolerant alcoholic.

    Years upon years, the M family lived a jagged journey. Sure they jetted around the country on occasion. Otherwise, Jose was either working or with one of his numerous lovers the rest of the time. Erik played tennis and lived outside in the garden cottage as a HS Senior so he wouldn't have to sleep with his mother but was forced to practice tennis for like five hours each day on the family courts.

    Tis difficult to reconcile the brutality of their parent's murder unless finding understanding with mindset of ones who heard and felt the continual nagging, ridicule and interference, bossing, controlling and the worst of all sins of incest and the toothbrush stuff is so over the top that it reaches a fevered pitch. Obviously, that is the recipe for raising natural born killers. Parentalcide.

  14. #29
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    ^^^^ You raise some very important points. "Incest mothers" whether they are actively involved in the abuse or not, tend to be dominated by their husbands and are pushed into a secondary role rather than that of an equal partner. As a result, they often bury their own pain and insecurity by retreating into a world of substance abuse, making the unable or unwilling to protect their offspring. In many cases, the kids often have to parent their own mother because she refuses to face reality. Not only does this fit Kitty Menendez perfectly but Jose fits the pattern of an incestuous father; the domineering patriarch who rules the house and family with an iron fist and terrorizes his children behind closed doors.

    Kitty had far too much interest in her sons' romantic lives - she hated almost all of Lyle's girlfriends upon sight, calling them sluts, and gold-diggers and even complained that one of them was "taking him sexually to places he was not prepared to go". This may have been irrational jealousy on her part; not only did she resent Lyle (who was Jose's favorite) for taking her husband away from her but she had been sexually inappropriate with Lyle for years, even bathing him when he was old enough to do so himself. With Erik, Kitty was always pushing him to get a girlfriend, and when he did, she had fake IDs made for them so that they could go to bars and drink, and even had the girl sleep over in Erik's bedroom, and gave him some condoms. How many mothers encourage that? Erik told her that there was foreplay but no sex, and Kitty was disappointed. It becomes even more perverse when you realize that not only did Kitty keep Erik close to her and made him a substitute, at the very least emotionally, for her husband (this is called emotional or covert incest), but that she likely knew all along what Jose was doing to Erik.

    As I stated, Lyle was his father's favorite (a position that I'm sure was not an enviable one), being his father's namesake (his first name is Joesph). In Latino families, the eldest son is the one who is expected to carry on the family tradition. Lyle stated that his father sexually abused him for two years, from age 6 to 8, and then it just stopped. That of course, did little to decrease the heavy burden he carried as the oldest Menendez son. According to family members, Jose viewed his younger son as being "weak" and this may have been why he primarily targeted Erik for the sexual abuse. From age 6 to 18, Jose made Erik his sex slave. At first, it was massages and touching, which Erik viewed as a form of affection. Because he was so desperate for his father's love and approval, at first he welcomed his father's advances (undoubtedly compounding his sense of shame), but by the time he was about 12 it became painful because his father would rape him (sometimes with objects), force him to perform oral sex and would stick sharp objects like tacks and needles into his thighs and genitals. Erik told his aunt and uncle that the last time that his father raped him was in May 1989, just weeks before his high school graduation ceremony. According to Erik, the rape was a punishment for his anticipated failing grade in chemistry.

    All abuse victims carry the additional load of having to put up a facade in public of the happy family. As if the fear, pain and trauma isn't enough. There was no way that the brothers could meet their father's colossal expectations and standards. At the time, people probably didn't know what to look for but the signs were definitely there. Jose kept the boys socially isolated in their early years, which is the kind of situation where abuse often thrives. Lyle was could be aggressive, but more often than not he would just suppress his emotions to the point where one of his teachers at Princeton Day School characterized him as being "like a robot", as Jose viewed emotion as weakness. Lyle wet the bed until he was 14 years old and could not sleep without his stuffed animals. Erik had been a very exuberant toddler but around the age of 5 he became withdrawn and fearful. He was terrified of the dark and of monsters. These kids had serious emotional issues but back then nobody intervened.

    This photo of Jose with the boys on his lap is worth a thousand words. (Erik is on the left, Lyle is on the right):



    Look where Jose has his hand! Lyle looks to be about 6 years old in this photo, which was around the time he stated that his father began molesting him.

    Jose's favorite book was "The Greatest Salesman In The World" by Og Mandino. He used passages of the book as his code for life and business. There is one oddly prophetic and disturbing quote:

    "Today I will fondle my children when they are young: tomorrow they will be gone and so will I."
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 01-06-2017 at 01:43 PM.

  15. #30
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    After reading this thread, I'm not so sure I don't agree with what the boys did. I'm about to throw up.

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