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  1. #46
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    Am I the only one that thinks the 'boys' lied and they just made up the sex abuse story to save their behinds? I remember watching this trial and always though they they killed their parents for the money. I do believe the father was a monster and the mother was very weak, but I don't believe the father sexually abused them. The father had several mistresses, which makes me believe he would have no interest in raping his sons.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by peedoffinny View Post
    Am I the only one that thinks the 'boys' lied and they just made up the sex abuse story to save their behinds? I remember watching this trial and always though they they killed their parents for the money. I do believe the father was a monster and the mother was very weak, but I don't believe the father sexually abused them. The father had several mistresses, which makes me believe he would have no interest in raping his sons.
    I don't know if you're the only one.
    Rapists don't generally rape for sexual gratification per se, but to meet their needs for extreme control and power exertion. So the dad could have been having consensual heterosexual intercourse every hour on the hour, and that may satiate his sexual needs, but not his needs for power and control. It doesn't all stem from the same place...it's not an "either/or" situation.

    I don't know enough about this case. Like you, at the time I thought it was simply about getting the parents' money. I'm older and wiser now and I'm not so sure. I don't feel it's justified to murder them even if all the allegations were true, but it's certainly more understandable for me if they were true.

    Sad case regardless of the motive(s).
    Unless specified otherwise and linked, my posts are simply random thoughts of mine, in no particular order, not directed at any post or poster, including but not limited to the ones directly above mine. My opinion only, yours may vary. IMO. JMO. IMHO. JMHO. MOO. Disclaimer, small print, asterisk, and etc.

  3. #48
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    The spoken (and unspoken) rules in households where abuse takes place:

    Don't feel. Keep your feelings in check. Do not show your feelings, especially anger.
    Be in control at all times. Do not show weakness. Do not ask for help.
    Deny what is really happening. Disbelieve your own senses/perceptions. Lie to yourself and to others.
    Don't trust yourself or anyone else. No one is trustworthy.
    Keep the secret. If you tell you will not be believed and it will not get help.
    Be ashamed of yourself. You are to blame for everything.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by peedoffinny View Post
    Am I the only one that thinks the 'boys' lied and they just made up the sex abuse story to save their behinds? I remember watching this trial and always though they they killed their parents for the money. I do believe the father was a monster and the mother was very weak, but I don't believe the father sexually abused them. The father had several mistresses, which makes me believe he would have no interest in raping his sons.
    As flourish stated, incest aggressors (and sexual predators in general) do not commit sexual assaults because of sexual needs or sexual deprivation. That is a myth. In reality, most incest aggressors have no problem getting sex, within marriage, outside of marriage or both. While they undoubtedly get sexual gratification out of the vicitmization, that is not their main motivation. They are usually in pursuit of power, domination or for the unconditional, non-threatening love in which only children can provide. Incestuous fathers are often physically and verbally abusive as well and this is a pattern as to how the family interacts with each other. Wives are not viewed as equal partners and are pushed into a secondary role; this upsets the balance of respect and the children are often considered property rather than human beings. In families where incest and other types of abuse occur, there is always some sort of breakdown - a lack of communication, stifling of emotions, isolation, lack of respect, secrecy, etc. This is how the abuser retains his power over the household; he is the dominant force who can bend his family to his will. On the outside, these families can seem normal, happy, "they have it all" kind of thing. But the reality behind closed doors is a harsh contrast to what the outside world sees. Facade and illusion is vitally important to the incestuous father.

    The Menendez family fits this described dynamic extremely well. Jose was the demanding patriarch who, as I stated in an earlier post, ruled this family with an iron fist. Everything was about him, what he wanted, etc. Emotion was something that was covered up, or hidden. Kitty adored her husband to the point of possessiveness, but he continually disregarded her feelings and didn't treat her as someone he loved and needed as a wife but rather someone to take care of the boys and the house. Kitty's emotional and financial dependence on Jose and her use of pills and alcohol to numb her pain is again, highly symbolic. Jose abused her as well, but when it came right down to it, she could not bring herself to leave, even as her sons were being mistreated. Brian Alan Andersen, Kitty's nephew, stated that when Jose was beating his sons with a belt, that Kitty would turn up the television. It was a typical "see no evil, hear no evil" kind of reaction.

    Jose dominated his sons, monitored them very closely, and kept them socially isolated when they were young, discouraging them from forming friendships and ordering them to keep their emotions in check, even around relatives. What reason would a parent have for doing that, unless he wanted his secrets to remain intact?

    And as I also stated, the symptoms of sexual abuse were evident as the brothers were in childhood and as they moved into adulthood. Lyle's bed-wetting, which went on until he was a teenager; his need to have his stuffed animals even after he was too old to play with them; Erik's persistent fear of the dark, that "monsters" would come to get him; both of them stuttered (Erik's was so severe he went to a speech pathologist); the brothers suffered from psychosomatic headaches and stomach pains, were taught to suppress their emotions, etc. Even the burglaries they committed and the elaborate spending spree is actually consistent with PTSD associated with severe abuse trauma. Because they came from a wealthy family, it was assumed by many (including the police and trial prosecutors) that it was all about getting the inheritance but there is nothing that proves it. It just lingered on because that was the theory that was repeated for years.
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 01-12-2017 at 11:30 PM.

  5. #50
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    Another thing I would like to add, is that there should be no question as to just how dysfunctional this family was. Even if you doubt the sexual abuse allegations (which I myself did for a number of years, but no longer), there's no denying that these were two troubled young men whose parents were narcissistic (especially their father) and hypocritical.

    Jose's attitude was, "everyone can compete; only one can win". He drilled into his sons from a young age that winning was everything, no matter what you had to do to achieve it, if you had to lie, cheat or steal - so be it. As long as it worked and you didn't get caught. When Lyle and Erik were caught with the stolen property from burglaries in the Calabasas area, Jose's reaction was along the lines of "how DARE you get caught and embarrass ME". Not horrified that his sons had committed a crime, but embarrassed and enraged that they had gotten caught. Jose was fine with his sons doing unethical things as long as it didn't embarrass the family or as long as the shoe wasn't on the other foot. As soon as it was, he and Kitty projected all the blame onto their sons and bemoaned the fact that their perfect family facade was crumbling and that the brothers weren't living up to THEIR expectations. How is that loving your children unconditionally? It isn't. He wanted sons who would be prototypes of him, or his idealized self. That is messed up in so many ways. Jose and Kitty were the primary influences in their sons' lives. It was their teachings, through words and actions, that the brothers carried into the world (an outside world that they were not properly prepared for, by the way). What did they expect? Kitty would do Lyle and Erik's homework for them, and then the boys would fail their exams. That is not helping your children, that is hindering them. It gets even more outrageous when you discover that Kitty was a former schoolteacher! Didn't she have any ethics at all? Of all people, she should have known how important it was for children to be properly educated and prepared for the future, yet she encouraged her sons to cheat?

    Kitty told family members and her sons that she wished that she had never had children. What kind of mother says that? Look, lady, you and your husband conceived your offspring; you brought them into this world. They didn't ask to be here. It was your responsibility to love them, nurture them, protect them, to teach them morals and guide them to becoming healthy and contributing members of society. And you failed on all counts!

    I know that Kitty was also victimized by her husband, but as the mother, it was her responsibility to see that her sons were treated well and with respect. But Jose always came first. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - YOUR CHILDREN ARE YOUR FIRST PRIORITY, NOT YOUR SPOUSE! I know how much it hurts when your mother fails to protect you and chooses a man over you, and mistreats you herself, on top of it. It's the loneliest feeling you can imagine. It may have been worse for Lyle and Erik knowing just how powerful and prominent their father was. Who could they tell? Who would believe them?

    And the saddest thing of all, is that the brothers still love their parents, despite the fact that they murdered them and the horrendous treatment they received at their hands.
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 01-13-2017 at 04:08 PM.

  6. #51
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    Jose Menendez was a powerful Hollywood executive; with everything that has come to light in recent years regarding sexual abuse of children in the entertainment industry, and how many powerful people have gotten away with and continue to get away with these crimes, it makes the sexual abuse allegations very difficult to overlook. As I stated in an earlier post, Jose has been accused of molesting members of the Latin boy band Menudo, whom he signed to a record deal when he was an executive at RCA (now Sony).

    His personality fit very much with a predator who has an insatiable need for domination, control and humiliation; he was brutal, narcissistic, insensitive to others, power-seeking; yet he knew instinctively how to put up a front and charm people.

    Jimmy Saville, the late British radio/television personality, vicitmized children for years, but was never brought up on charges, although police and many people associated with him were aware of what he was doing. It wasn't until his death that this became public knowledge and it is sickening just how many victims he had.

    And of course, the stories of child actors like Corey Haim, Brad Renfro, Todd Bridges, etc. is proof of just how prevalent this issue is in Hollywood. But very few of these predators have been brought to justice, and when they are, they receive appallingly light sentences.

    How could the brothers have told on their parents while they were alive? Who would believe them?
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 01-19-2017 at 04:47 PM.

  7. #52
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    I recommend that everyone watch the documentary,"An Open Secret". Pedophilia has been rampant in the entertainment industry for years, and many people have gotten away with it. There have even been times where a predator has been convicted (and they tend to receive very light sentences) and they are still working in the industry, even where they can still come into contact with children! Look up Brian Peck, who was "Pickle Boy" on Nickelodeon and Marty Weiss, who managed child actors (mostly boys) who is also still working and is lobbying to lighten sentences that predators receive (and the joke of it is, he served six months in prison for molesting a boy actor over a period of several years) and there are other pedophiles who are trying to lower the age of consent! Bob Villard, a former publicist and photographer, has also been convicted of sexually abusing a boy actor and continues to sell photos he took of young boys on Ebay. And this is something has taken place in more recent years, when there is a sex offender registry (but there was not at the time the Menendez brothers were growing up or at the time they killed their parents). As I mentioned in my previous post, Jimmy Saville (1926-2011), the British radio/television personality was another predator in the entertainment industry. After his death it was discovered that he had sexually assaulted over 100 people in his lifetime (children and adults), but people who had either been victimized by him or had information about his crimes were too afraid to come forward while he lived. British police have investigated and have found most of the claims to be true. Saville got away with it because of the power of his celebrity.


  8. #53
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    Joan Vander Molen, Kitty's sister, recently issued this statement:

    My sister, Kitty, and her husband, Jose Menendez, worked hard to achieve their financial and social success. Their desire for personal success, wealth, and social status, however, destroyed their family. Kitty must have felt tremendous shame and guilt knowing her husband's sexual dysfunction went beyond affairs and prostitutes. To live knowing your husband sexually abused your own children must be awful. But, Kitty must have known if the secret of child sexual abuse got out, her life as she knew it would be destroyed.

    I am saddened to know my sister carried that secret with her. I only wish she had the courage to stand up to her husband and to report the sexual abuse to police. Our family tragedy should be a lesson to all on the destructive affects of child abuse and molestation whether they are wealthy or not.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by peedoffinny View Post
    Am I the only one that thinks the 'boys' lied and they just made up the sex abuse story to save their behinds? I remember watching this trial and always though they they killed their parents for the money. I do believe the father was a monster and the mother was very weak, but I don't believe the father sexually abused them. The father had several mistresses, which makes me believe he would have no interest in raping his sons.
    Agree. Of course now they can say anything because what have they got to lose. After all is said and done, justice needs to continue to be served...
    This justice system is so one-sided on so many levels...

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trvl4Lyfe View Post
    Agree. Of course now they can say anything because what have they got to lose. After all is said and done, justice needs to continue to be served...
    Did you miss the part where two cousins testified that the brothers came to them in separate instances when they were children, telling them that their father had been touching them inappropriately? Or that Jose Menendez has been accused of molesting other young boys? Or the fact that Jose expressed homophobia, yet gay pornographic magazines were found in the master bedroom and the den after the murders?

    These things are very hard to overlook. There is also no evidence whatsoever that the brothers killed their parents for money. It's one thing to have an opinion, but to blatantly overlook eyewitness accounts and evidence that the abuse happened is something else entirely. I guess a lot of people don't want to believe that abuse happens in all walks of life, and that people who come from wealth can have just as many problems. Having wealth and privilege is no guarantee of happiness and emotional security. Their father was a Hollywood executive and people in positions of power can get away with many crimes. Grown men cowered with fear when it came to Jose Menendez. It's not hard to believe that his sons also feared him. Their mother knew what was happening but did nothing to stop it. Does it excuse the crime the brothers committed? Of course not. But they may not have been thinking rationally. Abuse changes a person's psychology; that is a fact.


  11. #56
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    Why do people think if someone had access to women they wouldn't molest children? Educate yourselves about sex offenders. Rapists don't rape because they aren't getting laid. Having a million mistresses doesn't mean a thing if what you want is abusive, nonconsentual sex with children. Come on. Do you really truly think child rapists only rape children because they don't have adult options available?
    Unless specified otherwise and linked, my posts are simply random thoughts of mine, in no particular order, not directed at any post or poster, including but not limited to the ones directly above mine. My opinion only, yours may vary. IMO. JMO. IMHO. JMHO. MOO. Disclaimer, small print, asterisk, and etc.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by flourish View Post
    Why do people think if someone had access to women they wouldn't molest children? Educate yourselves about sex offenders. Rapists don't rape because they aren't getting laid. Having a million mistresses doesn't mean a thing if what you want is abusive, nonconsentual sex with children. Come on. Do you really truly think child rapists only rape children because they don't have adult options available?
    Precisely this. The fact that Jose Menendez was married and having affairs with women proves NOTHING. As I said, it was clearly about control and domination with him, and what better target than his sons, over whom he had absolute power? A child is defenseless, especially if the perpetrator is a parent. They can't feel safe in their own bed, there's nowhere to run. The parent will always have more credibility, and if the parent has a degree of success in life, that makes it even worse for the victim. People need to let go of those myths and learn the truth, otherwise it will be even more difficult for abuse survivors to come forward and ultimately, predators will be shielded. This was in large part what led to the Menendez tragedy. Nothing was done about it, people didn't intervene when they should have (family, teachers and coaches were aware that something was wrong) but nobody called the authorities.
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 02-01-2017 at 01:03 AM.

  13. #58
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    I know this is a hot button issue and I've always been of the school of better to believe a child and be wrong then believe the adult and allow any kind of abuse to a defenseless child continue BUT one would have to agree that being accused of child sex abuse has to be the worst, ever and vetting is important. I too at first totally thought it was a made up defense. I'm now, on the fence but will say that a polygraph would make me more secure and I find the fact neither one told a therapist troubling. They did go on spending sprees right after their deaths, buying cars, taking trips abroad no?

  14. #59
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    Why didn't the boys run as far as they could once of age.

    They kept coming back for money.
    You can fool some of the people some of the time; But guess what? The Bus Stops Here (Life No Parole/ Don't Pass Go: Don't Collect Your $200)

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustgurl View Post
    I know this is a hot button issue and I've always been of the school of better to believe a child and be wrong then believe the adult and allow any kind of abuse to a defenseless child continue BUT one would have to agree that being accused of child sex abuse has to be the worst, ever and vetting is important. I too at first totally thought it was a made up defense. I'm now, on the fence but will say that a polygraph would make me more secure and I find the fact neither one told a therapist troubling. They did go on spending sprees right after their deaths, buying cars, taking trips abroad no?
    Again, the spending spree is consistent with PTSD abuse trauma. Also, they were accustomed to spending large amounts of money anyway. Which is where I sense the "rich kid" resentment comes in. Many victims of sexual abuse don't tell. Male victims are especially, are very reluctant to talk about their experiences, especially if they are abused by another male. If they are molested by their father, they will hate a part of themselves as the father is their role model. The brothers were taught that their father was the lord and master to whom everyone else bowed. There is a horrific story (told by a neighbor) that the boys once found their dog's head in the refrigerator. That in itself is horrifying. There is also a photo that I posted a few pages back in which Jose Menendez has his sons on his lap and he is clearly groping Lyle's crotch. Lyle looks uncomfortable and his hand is gripped over his father's indicating that he did not like his father touching him.
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 02-01-2017 at 02:02 AM.

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