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  1. #16
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    https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/29...orius-release/

    South Africa suspends Pistorius release

    The 28-year-old athlete was convicted in October of culpable homicide - a charge equivalent to manslaughter - over the killing of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day in 2013, but prosecutors have appealed, seeking a murder conviction instead.

    Wednesday's announcement comes on the very day Steenkamp, a model and law graduate, would have celebrated her 32nd birthday.

    "It is apparent... that the decision to release him on 21 August 2015 was made prematurely on 5 June 2015, when the offender was not eligible to be considered at all," Masutha said in a statement.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandax81 View Post
    My my, things have been warming up in town haven't they? Roux won't be distracted by the unicyclists and clowns though, he knows he has his deadline to meet.

    And on that topic, it disappoints me to say I am not impressed much at all with the state's appeal HoA, a bit of a curate's egg for me. They just didn't ask the right questions to be reserved in the first place and even with what we have there is a good chance of most or all being tossed out. The arguments all but ignored potentially the most lucrative question dealt by Masipa ('Whether the Court was correct in its construction and reliance on an alternative version of the accused'), blundered the rest with minor errors (getting terms wrong way round), major errors (equating excluding evidence as inadmissible with regarding admitted evidence as irrelevant) and, all too familiar, hiding things under the carpet hoping they won't be uncovered (isn't one of the accepted facts by the court that OP did not foresee the possibility of killing whoever was behind door). Don't get me started on the quotes about virgins and whores and 17th century roman-dutch law professors, I think recruiting James Grant was not the best idea.

    What was interesting is there is no reference to Masipa's opinion. By law, she must have already furnished a report to the SCA and this is part of the record. A lot could hinge on that.
    It would be fascinating to see Masipa's report but I expect judge's reports are not put in the public domain (to save blushes).

    I think it's hard to judge the merits of the HoAs at the moment as we don't yet have the counter-arguments. The defense HoA at the trial seemed strong to me on the main charge but very weak around DE. They seemed to have little in the way of coherent argument so it'll be interesting to see how they counter it this time.

  3. #18
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    Twitter

    Carl Pistorius ‏@carlpistorius 12 Std.Vor 12 Stunden
    ...!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cottonweaver View Post
    Well there's me thinking this was a short postponement of a few days ( as they might have to put him on next week's P.Board meeting. )

    But as Fossil quoted above :



    It looks like they may try and keep him inside c 3months longer, until Nov. appeal ( Appeal is prob end of November after all.)

    Any "bets" from WS posters as to the likelihood of this in their opinion?

    Looks like he's going to have to "join the queue" as other inmates have to?
    It might just depend on how busy they are. Four months is the maximum - but I wonder what the average amount of time is.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeJudi View Post
    "Culpable homicide" has been defined (in South African law) simply as "the unlawful negligent killing of a human being".

    Clearly OP can be correctly described as a killer and this will remain until the SCA reaches their decision in the appeal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpable_homicide

    Culpable homicide, like murderI is a form of unlawful killing. The crucial difference, however, is that if a person kills intentionally it is murder, whereas if he or she kills negligently it is culpable homicide.

    http://www.legalcity.net/Index.cfm?f...icleID=4191473

    Should the SCA find him guilty of either DD or DE he can then correctly be described as a murderer.

    On a different note:

    OP’s family has repeatedly denied he gets preferential treatment in prison. If that’s the case I’d really like to know which other inmates have had the benefit of the following entitlements:

    “He complained that he wanted a bath. Correctional Services built a bath in his cell”.

    He complained about his bed so Correctional Services “replaced his bed”.

    He complained about his gym equipment “so they changed that too”.

    “He has his own cell and separate toilet … away from the general prison population”.

    The above comments were from Murasiet Mentoor, the regional manager of the Judicial Inspectorate who reviews written prisoners’ complaints.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/worl...-prison-q06632

    And the family:

    Aimee dismissed reports that prison regulations were flouted and that her brother was receiving preferential treatment.

    The Sunday Times also reported that prison officials drove both Aimee and Carl's cars into the prison grounds without searching them.

    Aimee "didn't comment on claims that her car was driven into the facility by a prison official and not searched".

    http://www.enca.com/south-africa/bir...s-sister-aimee
    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pis...inmate-n412191

    Blade Runner' Oscar Pistorius Got Special Treatment in Prison: Inmate

    "Pistorius, he was a VIP prisoner," Boswell Mhlongo, a fellow inmate at the maximum-security Kgosi Mapuru II in Pretoria, told NBC News. "I mean everything was free for him. He can do whatever he wants."

    Mhlongo added: "How can you get your own gym, your own gym alone? Why the cell that we're in — we were never given curtains — but his cell was prepared special? Because he's got money. I mean it's Oscar Pistorius."

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandax81 View Post
    Don't get me started on the quotes about virgins and whores and 17th century roman-dutch law professors, I think recruiting James Grant was not the best idea.
    .
    RSBM

    This might explain why they are going into this historical aspect ? ( It explains the background and some of the anomalies in SA African law, influence of Purist movement vs the modernisers promoting English law)

    Prof Forsyth from Cambridge Univ, UK/Extraordinary Professor of Law at University of Stellenbosch CT.

    http://www.law.cam.ac.uk/press/news/...r-forsyth/2934

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR_Turner View Post
    It might just depend on how busy they are. Four months is the maximum - but I wonder what the average amount of time is.
    Yes - would like to get to the bottom of this but doubt it's possible. I said in last thread that he may naturally just get put at the bottom of the existing list now hence a longer delay and surely they can't just convene a special one-off PB meeting for him. But it would help if they had been more transparent and detailed-otherwise this just becomes another political football.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjitty View Post
    How is this ignored?

    It's the very question that the state is under appealing

    i.e. that the judge was incorrect to find that OP did not foresee the possibility of killing whoever was behind door

    The State's argument is that give all the facts as held by the judge, and the correct application of the test, clearly OP did have the requisite intention and thus the judge made an error of law.

    Obviously Roux's argument will be that it is a question of fact.

    Personally I believe it is a question of mixed fact and law.
    They hide it under the carpet in exactly the manner you describe - by posturing that it is not an issue so simply not dealing with it. It's no good pretending the question reserved is 'whether the court was correct to find that OP did not foresee the possibility of killing' - it isn't*. The Q is 'Whether the principles of dolus eventualis were correctly applied to the accepted facts...'

    The state lists many of the court's findings as "accepted facts". Conspicuously absent is the finding that OP clearly did not foresee the possibility of killing. The problem is, the state does not explain why they do not consider this an accepted fact - that is the issue, they don't even deal with it. To make the finding as the court did about OP's subjective intention requires no knowledge of dolus eventualis, you don't even need to have heard of dolus eventualis to make that finding. In this regard, it is legitimate to believe the onus is on the state to show why it is not a finding of fact and once you have that finding, the principles of dolus eventualis are then applied rather than the other way round. The state appear to be putting the cart before the horse. I'm not arguing the point one way or the other definitively, my point is if the state think they are putting the horse before the cart, they should have argued why.

    This 'fingers in the ears' tactic is no good, they need to tackle things head on and ward it off now at this stage, it is such an obvious and strong objection that will come like a knockout punch, at least make some defensive gesture.

    * That would have been a better question, one couched in terms of the legal principles and evidential approach and burden in determining subjective intention. It is one with precedent too from the Supreme Court that would go in favour of the state. But that isn't the question alas.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromGermany View Post
    Twitter

    Carl Pistorius ‏@carlpistorius 12 Std.Vor 12 Stunden
    ...!
    Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does that mean?? Did I miss something??
    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.



    Anxiety is the cousin visiting from out of town that depression felt obligated to bring to the party.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suthrnqt View Post
    Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does that mean?? Did I miss something??
    Twitter without words from CP - also a statement.

    His thought while writing "....!" maybe: I (Carl) did know that one would continue to treat my (poor) brother unjust!

    What would you think he thought of?


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cottonweaver View Post
    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Os...wyers-20150819

    "There was no word from Oscar Pistorius's lawyers on Wednesday night on whether they would pursue legal action following the decision by Justice Minister Michael Masutha...

    His attorney Brian Webber could not immediately be reached for comment. However, Pistorius's family said they would consider their options.

    "We accept the decision made by the minister of justice and are considering our options," family spokesperson Anneliese Burgess told News24 earlier."

    A typical example of unconvincing double speak by PR spokesperson Burgess, purveyor of clear comms.

    Maybe if they just preface every future utterance with "We accept the decision ....." and then do the opposite as per initial bail conditions


    I imagine it will happen fairly quickly. After all the Pistorius family seem to get preferential treatment with everything they do. I feel there is a large degree of posturing going on here. The board that met in June may well have followed all the procedures that were, at that time, normal practice and considered correct.
    Last edited by Interested Bystander; 08-20-2015 at 05:57 AM.


  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suthrnqt View Post
    Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does that mean?? Did I miss something??
    At a guess I think it meant he was speechless - LOL!


  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interested Bystander View Post
    I imagine it will happen fairly quickly. After all the Pistorius family seem to get preferential treatment with everything they do. I feel there is a large degree of posturing going on here. The board that met in June may well have followed all the normal procedures.
    Well, that maybe right, but obviously at wrong time (too early).

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromGermany View Post
    Well, that maybe right, but obviously at wrong time (too early).

    I think the problem is that there is a new guy at the helm and he is making a name for himself. I don't really think that the prison would have knowingly made this mistake. If the board meeting was June and, possibly, if they meet four monthly, the next one would have been after his 10 month sentence expires, ie next meeting due in October. I expect this routine has been in place for a very long time.


  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interested Bystander View Post
    I imagine it will happen fairly quickly. After all the Pistorius family seem to get preferential treatment with everything they do. I feel there is a large degree of posturing going on here. The board that met in June may well have followed all the procedures that were, at that time, normal practice and considered correct.
    Sorry Bystander, are you saying that you guess he will be released fairly quickly ie. pre Appeal?

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