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  1. #1
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    ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

    Deorr Kunz Jr.

    Missing two year old in Lemhi County
    Search crews are looking for a missing two year old boy who was camping with his family in the Leadore area.

    Family members say Deorr Kunz Jr. was camping yesterday afternoon at the Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir when he was reported missing.

    He was last seen wearing a camo jacket, blue sweatpants and camo cowboy boots.

    There is no official word from yet from The Lemhi County Sheriff's Office or Salmon Search & Rescue of organized searches for the weekend. We'll update search information as it's released.
    http://m.localnews8.com/news/Missing...ounty/34110688



    Chief deputy on missing boy's family: 'They're solid
    KTVB, KTVB.COM 2:14 p.m. MDT July 16, 2015

    [...]
    "We've interviewed the family, and the information they've provided us - my office, myself - we're good with that," he said. "And I know there's a lot of innuendo out on social media and a lot of stuff going out there and it would be nice if it would stop and let them have a little peace. They're solid."

    NamUs MP 29726

    Case Map


    ID - Deorr Kunz Jr, 2 yr old -- Media,Timelines and Maps **NO DISCUSSION"


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  2. #2
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    In reality, all we know is that a 2 year old toddler was reported missing from a campground in Leadore, ID by his mother and father and despite much effort has not been found.

    Everything else is speculation.

    Pray for him.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTime View Post
    In reality, all we know is that a 2 year old toddler was reported missing from a campground in Leadore, ID by his mother and father and despite much effort has not been found.

    Everything else is speculation.

    Pray for him.
    Sad but true. We know next to nothing.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  4. #4
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    Agreed. This is really frustrating (which isn't remotely comparable to how the people actually involved with the case feel, obviously).. Is there anything to learn from this? In pure, MOO-only fashion, ruling out cryptozoological explanations, is it poor detective work, is it inadequate media exposure, is it a coverup, is it searcher incompetency, paired with familial apathy? It has to be a combination of one or more of those things, and I hope knowing what that is will help find somebody else's baby someday.
    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy.

    ----

  5. #5
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    I am not sure what familial apathy is but, the reason we know nothing is not due to poor detective work, incompetent searchers or lack of media.

    It could be that the 4 adults are all lying but I find that hard to believe.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTime View Post
    I am not sure what familial apathy is but, the reason we know nothing is not due to poor detective work, incompetent searchers or lack of media.

    It could be that the 4 adults are all lying but I find that hard to believe.
    To be clear, I don't believe/claim it's even a single one of those things, it's just hard to make a logical list of reasons that explains a child seemingly disappearing like this. I imagine myself, 2 years old, camping with my family and a family member's friend. I never see them again. Was it something I did?

    By familial apathy I meant a rather cynical view that's often brought up in (much more quickly resolved) cases, where the parents who made the report don't seem to be doing very much at all. I do NOT think that's the case with Deorr Jr's parents, I can't make that more clear. Again, just brainstorming as to all of the possible reasons because so far nothing makes sense at all.
    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy.

    ----

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    Sad but true. We know next to nothing.
    I agree. We know next to nothing.

    But, here are some of the things we do know (please correct or add):

    -The parents called 911 on Fri afternoon.

    -They were in separate places, Mom at the campsite while DeOrr Sr. away from the campsite in his truck.

    -Mom said little DeOrr had been missing for an hour.

    -It was relayed to NE that the family arrived at the campsite Fri AM, then turned around and went to the store. LE also believed it was a Fri arrival date until further investigation.

    -It was later discovered in the investigation that the family arrived to the campsite on Thurs night.

    -The parents say they left little DeOrr with GGP, who reportedly has declining physical and mental health, so they could go exploring.

    -The timeframe in which little DeOrr was not accounted for changed a few times. Ultimately it was said that the parents were gone for 10 minutes but that little DeOrr was only unsupervised for 4 minutes, leaving him with GGP (supervised?) for 6 minutes.

    -DeOrr Sr says that the parents thought little DeOrr was okay with GGP and upon coming back to the campsite was surprised to find out that GGP thought little DeOrr was with the parents.

    -According to the sheriff, GGP says he turned his head for a moment and DeOrr was gone. (I can't recall if this is also the case where GGP says he went over the embankment.)

    -A much younger friend of GGP's is also at the campsite and says he was down at the creek.

    -Later, in a video interview, when asked if he was with GGP when disappeared, the friend agrees, but when asked if little DeOrr just wandered away, he says he's not supposed to say that. However, he also couldn't find a shirt and answered the door saying "I don't have any questions!" So, take that with a grain of salt.

    -The four people at the campground are named POI's.

    -They all take polygraphs, but the results are not made public.

    -Tracking dogs went to the reservoir and back to the campsite, but the parents did not indicate that they or the other two POI's took little DeOrr to the reservoir at any point during their stay. DeOrr Sr. says little DeOrr can't make it up there by himself.

    -The parents believe DeOrr was abducted.

    -The sheriff believes abduction is the least possible scenario and also doesn't believe that the little toddler was taken by an animal, fell into the creek or reservoir or wandered off. Instead, he calls off the search and brings in the FBI to analyze the behavioral and physical evidence.

    -The parents do one interview and do not make any further public outreach to try to find him. They bring on a PI, who also does one interview, but also does not do any further public outreach and totally disappears from public view.

    -The sheriff believes that abduction the least likely scenario, but also does not believe the little toddler was taken by an animal, in a creek, in the reservoir or anywhere in the search area.

    -There is a receipt from Fri that aligns with items the family says they bought at town.

    -The only sighting of the family in town is reported by a clerk at the gas station store who says at 6 PM Fri a man came in to buy candy for a toddler matching DeOrr's description (dirty and crying--I am making the language nicer because it upsets people) in a black truck.

    What the heck is happening here?

    -The mom reports to the PI that there was an old, staring man that made her nervous during their trip to town.

    -The FB page for DeOrr is not updated from Aug 12 until today, at which time finally a poster is posted showing the clothes that little DeOrr was wearing. It is geared to hunters.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeaTime View Post
    I am not sure what familial apathy is but, the reason we know nothing is not due to poor detective work, incompetent searchers or lack of media.

    It could be that the 4 adults are all lying but I find that hard to believe.
    I don't, unfortunately. But I doubt it's all four.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bettiepageturner View Post
    To be clear, I don't believe/claim it's even a single one of those things, it's just hard to make a logical list of reasons that explains a child seemingly disappearing like this. I imagine myself, 2 years old, camping with my family and a family member's friend. I never see them again. Was it something I did?

    By familial apathy I meant a rather cynical view that's often brought up in (much more quickly resolved) cases, where the parents who made the report don't seem to be doing very much at all. I do NOT think that's the case with Deorr Jr's parents, I can't make that more clear. Again, just brainstorming as to all of the possible reasons because so far nothing makes sense at all.
    Unfortunately, this is true. In cases where you think the family member (members) would be vocal and trying to do some outreach, and instead they just disappear, it is not a good sign. IMO.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kammiemc View Post
    I agree. We know next to nothing.

    But, here are some of the things we do know (please correct or add):

    -The parents called 911 on Fri afternoon.

    -They were in separate places, Mom at the campsite while DeOrr Sr. away from the campsite in his truck.

    -Mom said little DeOrr had been missing for an hour.

    -It was relayed to NE that the family arrived at the campsite Fri AM, then turned around and went to the store. LE also believed it was a Fri arrival date until further investigation.

    -It was later discovered in the investigation that the family arrived to the campsite on Thurs night.

    -The parents say they left little DeOrr with GGP, who reportedly has declining physical and mental health, so they could go exploring.

    -The timeframe in which little DeOrr was not accounted for changed a few times. Ultimately it was said that the parents were gone for 10 minutes but that little DeOrr was only unsupervised for 4 minutes, leaving him with GGP (supervised?) for 6 minutes.

    -DeOrr Sr says that the parents thought little DeOrr was okay with GGP and upon coming back to the campsite was surprised to find out that GGP thought little DeOrr was with the parents.

    -According to the sheriff, GGP says he turned his head for a moment and DeOrr was gone. (I can't recall if this is also the case where GGP says he went over the embankment.)

    -A much younger friend of GGP's is also at the campsite and says he was down at the creek.

    -Later, in a video interview, when asked if he was with GGP when disappeared, the friend agrees, but when asked if little DeOrr just wandered away, he says he's not supposed to say that. However, he also couldn't find a shirt and answered the door saying "I don't have any questions!" So, take that with a grain of salt.

    -The four people at the campground are named POI's.

    -They all take polygraphs, but the results are not made public.

    -Tracking dogs went to the reservoir and back to the campsite, but the parents did not indicate that they or the other two POI's took little DeOrr to the reservoir at any point during their stay. DeOrr Sr. says little DeOrr can't make it up there by himself.

    -The parents believe DeOrr was abducted.

    -The sheriff believes abduction is the least possible scenario and also doesn't believe that the little toddler was taken by an animal, fell into the creek or reservoir or wandered off. Instead, he calls off the search and brings in the FBI to analyze the behavioral and physical evidence.

    -The parents do one interview and do not make any further public outreach to try to find him. They bring on a PI, who also does one interview, but also does not do any further public outreach and totally disappears from public view.

    -The sheriff believes that abduction the least likely scenario, but also does not believe the little toddler was taken by an animal, in a creek, in the reservoir or anywhere in the search area.

    -There is a receipt from Fri that aligns with items the family says they bought at town.

    -The only sighting of the family in town is reported by a clerk at the gas station store who says at 6 PM Fri a man came in to buy candy for a toddler matching DeOrr's description (dirty and crying--I am making the language nicer because it upsets people) in a black truck.

    What the heck is happening here?

    -The mom reports to the PI that there was an old, staring man that made her nervous during their trip to town.

    -The FB page for DeOrr is not updated from Aug 12 until today, at which time finally a poster is posted showing the clothes that little DeOrr was wearing. It is geared to hunters.
    This is concise and excellent. Thank you.


  11. #11
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    great post, kammie...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kammiemc View Post
    Unfortunately, this is true. In cases where you think the family member (members) would be vocal and trying to do some outreach, and instead they just disappear, it is not a good sign. IMO.
    I found this on the Idaho Missing Alert page. Where do you think the parents are on this Stages of Grief chart?
    http://www.eklutheran.ca/uploads/Sta...of%20Grief.jpg

    I think they would be on the very bottom after 7 weeks.

    Re: Deorr's FB page. It was cleaned up today...2 weeks were removed.

    BTW: Excellent post Kammie!



    Last edited by BeeFriendly; 08-28-2015 at 02:48 AM.

  13. #13
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    To be fair, I can understand why the parents haven't said anything else publicly. Pretty much every single word they have said has been over analyzed and turned against them.

    I still cannot believe this child has not been found yet.

  14. #14
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    I want to try to analyze a few sentences from the EIN article. http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07...orr-kunz-case/ I think it's important to keep in mind that unless we have a direct quote from someone (LE) and know the context, there's room for misinterpretation and error.This article was before ggp was also named a POI with the others.

    Bowerman said Reinwand, similar to Mitchell and Kunz, are “persons of interest” in this case because they were at the scene. However, at this time, neither Reinwand, Mitchell or Kunz are suspects in the missing persons case.

    The great-grandfather, who authorities have not identified, also has not been labeled as a suspect. Authorities said his declining physical and mental health ruled him out at the beginning of the case.



    BBM.

    By saying ggp was "ruled out", it is implied that the other three had not been ruled out at that time. Ruled out from what? I infer from these sentences that ggp was ruled out from involvement in DeOrr's disappearance. He is not a POI. So people who have not been "ruled out" are POIs. That doesn't gel with people being POIs just because they were at the campsite. All four were at the campsite. One was "ruled out" and the other three were not "ruled out" and are POIs. That means if someone is "ruled out" they are not a POI. Only people who have not been "ruled out" are POIs. That sounds like LE has reason to believe one or more of the POIs may have something to do with DeOrr's disappearance, since they were not ruled out due to physical health, mental health or any other reason.

    I maintain that LE did not change their opinion on ggp, but decided to call him a POI, too, because of the logic tree (shrub) above. People were asking why he was excluded from the POI category based on his physical and mental health, when he would still have information to provide, as he was at the campsite like the others. If anyone who was at the campsite who could provide information was a POI, it was a glaring omission to exclude ggp. So, the nomenclature has changed, but I don't think LE's view of ggp has changed. JMO More than six weeks after DeOrr disappeared, there are four POIs, none of which have been "ruled out".

    None of them are suspects. When someone becomes a suspect, LE must mirandize them before interviews.
    Last edited by rkf; 08-27-2015 at 11:57 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkf View Post
    (rsbm)

    None of them are suspects. When someone becomes a suspect, LE must mirandize them before interview them.
    Interesting point. I'm not as caught up as I should be, do you know if LE has formally interviewed any of the POIs? All I've seen or heard of is that one rambling interview. Legally speaking, could they have agreed to an interview and waived their rights to representation? And would we have heard about it? Not sure how the polygraphs play into that either..
    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy.

    ----

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