ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

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Deorr Kunz Jr.
Deorr-Kunz-Jr-jpg.jpg

Missing two year old in Lemhi County
Search crews are looking for a missing two year old boy who was camping with his family in the Leadore area.

Family members say Deorr Kunz Jr. was camping yesterday afternoon at the Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir when he was reported missing.

He was last seen wearing a camo jacket, blue sweatpants and camo cowboy boots.

There is no official word from yet from The Lemhi County Sheriff's Office or Salmon Search & Rescue of organized searches for the weekend. We'll update search information as it's released.
http://m.localnews8.com/news/Missing-two-year-old-in-Lemhi-County/34110688


Chief deputy on missing boy's family: 'They're solid
KTVB, KTVB.COM 2:14 p.m. MDT July 16, 2015

[...]
"We've interviewed the family, and the information they've provided us - my office, myself - we're good with that," he said. "And I know there's a lot of innuendo out on social media and a lot of stuff going out there and it would be nice if it would stop and let them have a little peace. They're solid."

NamUs MP 29726

Case Map


ID - Deorr Kunz Jr, 2 yr old -- Media,Timelines and Maps **NO DISCUSSION"


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In reality, all we know is that a 2 year old toddler was reported missing from a campground in Leadore, ID by his mother and father and despite much effort has not been found.

Everything else is speculation.

Pray for him.
 
In reality, all we know is that a 2 year old toddler was reported missing from a campground in Leadore, ID by his mother and father and despite much effort has not been found.

Everything else is speculation.

Pray for him.

Sad but true. We know next to nothing.
 
Agreed. This is really frustrating (which isn't remotely comparable to how the people actually involved with the case feel, obviously).. Is there anything to learn from this? In pure, MOO-only fashion, ruling out cryptozoological explanations, is it poor detective work, is it inadequate media exposure, is it a coverup, is it searcher incompetency, paired with familial apathy? It has to be a combination of one or more of those things, and I hope knowing what that is will help find somebody else's baby someday.
 
I am not sure what familial apathy is but, the reason we know nothing is not due to poor detective work, incompetent searchers or lack of media.

It could be that the 4 adults are all lying but I find that hard to believe.
 
I am not sure what familial apathy is but, the reason we know nothing is not due to poor detective work, incompetent searchers or lack of media.

It could be that the 4 adults are all lying but I find that hard to believe.

To be clear, I don't believe/claim it's even a single one of those things, it's just hard to make a logical list of reasons that explains a child seemingly disappearing like this. I imagine myself, 2 years old, camping with my family and a family member's friend. I never see them again. Was it something I did?

By familial apathy I meant a rather cynical view that's often brought up in (much more quickly resolved) cases, where the parents who made the report don't seem to be doing very much at all. I do NOT think that's the case with Deorr Jr's parents, I can't make that more clear. Again, just brainstorming as to all of the possible reasons because so far nothing makes sense at all. :(
 
Sad but true. We know next to nothing.

I agree. We know next to nothing.

But, here are some of the things we do know (please correct or add):

-The parents called 911 on Fri afternoon.

-They were in separate places, Mom at the campsite while DeOrr Sr. away from the campsite in his truck.

-Mom said little DeOrr had been missing for an hour.

-It was relayed to NE that the family arrived at the campsite Fri AM, then turned around and went to the store. LE also believed it was a Fri arrival date until further investigation.

-It was later discovered in the investigation that the family arrived to the campsite on Thurs night.

-The parents say they left little DeOrr with GGP, who reportedly has declining physical and mental health, so they could go exploring.

-The timeframe in which little DeOrr was not accounted for changed a few times. Ultimately it was said that the parents were gone for 10 minutes but that little DeOrr was only unsupervised for 4 minutes, leaving him with GGP (supervised?) for 6 minutes.

-DeOrr Sr says that the parents thought little DeOrr was okay with GGP and upon coming back to the campsite was surprised to find out that GGP thought little DeOrr was with the parents.

-According to the sheriff, GGP says he turned his head for a moment and DeOrr was gone. (I can't recall if this is also the case where GGP says he went over the embankment.)

-A much younger friend of GGP's is also at the campsite and says he was down at the creek.

-Later, in a video interview, when asked if he was with GGP when disappeared, the friend agrees, but when asked if little DeOrr just wandered away, he says he's not supposed to say that. However, he also couldn't find a shirt and answered the door saying "I don't have any questions!" So, take that with a grain of salt.

-The four people at the campground are named POI's.

-They all take polygraphs, but the results are not made public.

-Tracking dogs went to the reservoir and back to the campsite, but the parents did not indicate that they or the other two POI's took little DeOrr to the reservoir at any point during their stay. DeOrr Sr. says little DeOrr can't make it up there by himself.

-The parents believe DeOrr was abducted.

-The sheriff believes abduction is the least possible scenario and also doesn't believe that the little toddler was taken by an animal, fell into the creek or reservoir or wandered off. Instead, he calls off the search and brings in the FBI to analyze the behavioral and physical evidence.

-The parents do one interview and do not make any further public outreach to try to find him. They bring on a PI, who also does one interview, but also does not do any further public outreach and totally disappears from public view.

-The sheriff believes that abduction the least likely scenario, but also does not believe the little toddler was taken by an animal, in a creek, in the reservoir or anywhere in the search area.

-There is a receipt from Fri that aligns with items the family says they bought at town.

-The only sighting of the family in town is reported by a clerk at the gas station store who says at 6 PM Fri a man came in to buy candy for a toddler matching DeOrr's description (dirty and crying--I am making the language nicer because it upsets people) in a black truck.

What the heck is happening here?

-The mom reports to the PI that there was an old, staring man that made her nervous during their trip to town.

-The FB page for DeOrr is not updated from Aug 12 until today, at which time finally a poster is posted showing the clothes that little DeOrr was wearing. It is geared to hunters.
 
I am not sure what familial apathy is but, the reason we know nothing is not due to poor detective work, incompetent searchers or lack of media.

It could be that the 4 adults are all lying but I find that hard to believe.

I don't, unfortunately. But I doubt it's all four.
 
To be clear, I don't believe/claim it's even a single one of those things, it's just hard to make a logical list of reasons that explains a child seemingly disappearing like this. I imagine myself, 2 years old, camping with my family and a family member's friend. I never see them again. Was it something I did?

By familial apathy I meant a rather cynical view that's often brought up in (much more quickly resolved) cases, where the parents who made the report don't seem to be doing very much at all. I do NOT think that's the case with Deorr Jr's parents, I can't make that more clear. Again, just brainstorming as to all of the possible reasons because so far nothing makes sense at all. :(

Unfortunately, this is true. In cases where you think the family member (members) would be vocal and trying to do some outreach, and instead they just disappear, it is not a good sign. IMO.
 
I agree. We know next to nothing.

But, here are some of the things we do know (please correct or add):

-The parents called 911 on Fri afternoon.

-They were in separate places, Mom at the campsite while DeOrr Sr. away from the campsite in his truck.

-Mom said little DeOrr had been missing for an hour.

-It was relayed to NE that the family arrived at the campsite Fri AM, then turned around and went to the store. LE also believed it was a Fri arrival date until further investigation.

-It was later discovered in the investigation that the family arrived to the campsite on Thurs night.

-The parents say they left little DeOrr with GGP, who reportedly has declining physical and mental health, so they could go exploring.

-The timeframe in which little DeOrr was not accounted for changed a few times. Ultimately it was said that the parents were gone for 10 minutes but that little DeOrr was only unsupervised for 4 minutes, leaving him with GGP (supervised?) for 6 minutes.

-DeOrr Sr says that the parents thought little DeOrr was okay with GGP and upon coming back to the campsite was surprised to find out that GGP thought little DeOrr was with the parents.

-According to the sheriff, GGP says he turned his head for a moment and DeOrr was gone. (I can't recall if this is also the case where GGP says he went over the embankment.)

-A much younger friend of GGP's is also at the campsite and says he was down at the creek.

-Later, in a video interview, when asked if he was with GGP when disappeared, the friend agrees, but when asked if little DeOrr just wandered away, he says he's not supposed to say that. However, he also couldn't find a shirt and answered the door saying "I don't have any questions!" So, take that with a grain of salt.

-The four people at the campground are named POI's.

-They all take polygraphs, but the results are not made public.

-Tracking dogs went to the reservoir and back to the campsite, but the parents did not indicate that they or the other two POI's took little DeOrr to the reservoir at any point during their stay. DeOrr Sr. says little DeOrr can't make it up there by himself.

-The parents believe DeOrr was abducted.

-The sheriff believes abduction is the least possible scenario and also doesn't believe that the little toddler was taken by an animal, fell into the creek or reservoir or wandered off. Instead, he calls off the search and brings in the FBI to analyze the behavioral and physical evidence.

-The parents do one interview and do not make any further public outreach to try to find him. They bring on a PI, who also does one interview, but also does not do any further public outreach and totally disappears from public view.

-The sheriff believes that abduction the least likely scenario, but also does not believe the little toddler was taken by an animal, in a creek, in the reservoir or anywhere in the search area.

-There is a receipt from Fri that aligns with items the family says they bought at town.

-The only sighting of the family in town is reported by a clerk at the gas station store who says at 6 PM Fri a man came in to buy candy for a toddler matching DeOrr's description (dirty and crying--I am making the language nicer because it upsets people) in a black truck.

What the heck is happening here?

-The mom reports to the PI that there was an old, staring man that made her nervous during their trip to town.

-The FB page for DeOrr is not updated from Aug 12 until today, at which time finally a poster is posted showing the clothes that little DeOrr was wearing. It is geared to hunters.

This is concise and excellent. Thank you.
 
Unfortunately, this is true. In cases where you think the family member (members) would be vocal and trying to do some outreach, and instead they just disappear, it is not a good sign. IMO.
I found this on the Idaho Missing Alert page. Where do you think the parents are on this Stages of Grief chart?
http://www.eklutheran.ca/uploads/Stages of Grief.jpg

I think they would be on the very bottom after 7 weeks.

Re: Deorr's FB page. It was cleaned up today...2 weeks were removed.

BTW: Excellent post Kammie!




 
To be fair, I can understand why the parents haven't said anything else publicly. Pretty much every single word they have said has been over analyzed and turned against them.

I still cannot believe this child has not been found yet.
 
I want to try to analyze a few sentences from the EIN article. http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/ I think it's important to keep in mind that unless we have a direct quote from someone (LE) and know the context, there's room for misinterpretation and error.This article was before ggp was also named a POI with the others.

Bowerman said Reinwand, similar to Mitchell and Kunz, are “persons of interest” in this case because they were at the scene. However, at this time, neither Reinwand, Mitchell or Kunz are suspects in the missing persons case.

The great-grandfather, who authorities have not identified, also has not been labeled as a suspect. Authorities said his declining physical and mental health ruled him out at the beginning of the case.



BBM.

By saying ggp was "ruled out", it is implied that the other three had not been ruled out at that time. Ruled out from what? I infer from these sentences that ggp was ruled out from involvement in DeOrr's disappearance. He is not a POI. So people who have not been "ruled out" are POIs. That doesn't gel with people being POIs just because they were at the campsite. All four were at the campsite. One was "ruled out" and the other three were not "ruled out" and are POIs. That means if someone is "ruled out" they are not a POI. Only people who have not been "ruled out" are POIs. That sounds like LE has reason to believe one or more of the POIs may have something to do with DeOrr's disappearance, since they were not ruled out due to physical health, mental health or any other reason.

I maintain that LE did not change their opinion on ggp, but decided to call him a POI, too, because of the logic tree (shrub) above. People were asking why he was excluded from the POI category based on his physical and mental health, when he would still have information to provide, as he was at the campsite like the others. If anyone who was at the campsite who could provide information was a POI, it was a glaring omission to exclude ggp. So, the nomenclature has changed, but I don't think LE's view of ggp has changed. JMO More than six weeks after DeOrr disappeared, there are four POIs, none of which have been "ruled out".

None of them are suspects. When someone becomes a suspect, LE must mirandize them before interviews.
 
(rsbm)

None of them are suspects. When someone becomes a suspect, LE must mirandize them before interview them.

Interesting point. I'm not as caught up as I should be, do you know if LE has formally interviewed any of the POIs? All I've seen or heard of is that one rambling interview. Legally speaking, could they have agreed to an interview and waived their rights to representation? And would we have heard about it? Not sure how the polygraphs play into that either..
 
To be fair, I can understand why the parents haven't said anything else publicly. Pretty much every single word they have said has been over analyzed and turned against them.

I still cannot believe this child has not been found yet.

That's to be expected when a child goes missing within feet of the parents and there is no resolution (body found in water, child found alive, etc.) Parents of missing children all face scrutiny, but most people who think their child was abducted don't let other peoples' suspicions stop them from doing whatever they can to get their child's name and face in front of the widest audience possible. JMO
 
Interesting point. I'm not as caught up as I should be, do you know if LE has formally interviewed any of the POIs? All I've seen or heard of is that one rambling interview. Legally speaking, could they have agreed to an interview and waived their rights to representation? And would we have heard about it? Not sure how the polygraphs play into that either..

I believe LE has spoken with all of them more than once. The sheriff said IR came up to the campsite with him twice, so I imagine they spoke during the drive/at the campsite. The sheriff said the vehicles of everyone at the campsite were searched a "couple of times, if not more", so I'm guessing they at least talked then. As long as someone is not a suspect, they can chat with LE informally or at the station - location and demeanor don't matter as much as whether or not the person LE is talking with has been declared a "suspect". I understand the FBI might have "reinterviewed" some of the POIs, too, but I don't have a link, so take it as rumor.

Even if someone waives his/her "right to an attorney", s/he can always change his/her mind at any time.
 
Hello everyone...I have been away for about a month i was wondering if anyone would be so kind to point by point catch me up please n thank you last i knew was litterally just he was gone and they were looking in the lake...like the first 4 days was where i had to leave could someone fill me in..thanks
 
CanManEh,

The searchers continued for about 3 weeks. Nothing was reported to have been found in a radius of 2.5 - 3 miles of the campsite. The creek was cleared. The reservoir was searched for days. Nothing.

Sheriff has stated that all four adults (Mom, Dad, GGP and friend IR) are persons of interest. There are no suspects at this time.

The search dogs scented the child at the campsite but did not track him away from there. Cadaver dogs were interested in the reservoir. Seems someone spread cremains on the water of the reservoir at some time after the search began. Sheriff thinks the cremains made the dogs go up there. Divers continued to search but nothing has been reported to have been found.

It seems that GGP was at the campsite when mom and dad walked off to explore, leaving the child behind with GGP. GGP reportedly turned his head for a minute and the child was gone. GGP thought the child went to join his parents. IR was fishing about 150' downstream of the campsite in the creek. The parents were about 150 feet away from the campsite, gone for about 10 minutes, when they doubled back to the campsite and realized DeOrr was no where to be seen.

Sheriff says that an abduction is the least likely scenario. He stated that he is 100% sure the child is not in the creek,99% sure the child was actually at the campsite as reported, does not think it was an animal attack. It was stated that if he were in the reservoir, he would float up in 3 weeks. He hasn't.

There are 3 roads that lead to the area of the campsite: 172A, 172, and 172B. Dad said that from one of the higher roads above the campsite, one could see everything going on in the campground but due to the terrain one could not see up to the road or hear a vehicle up there because the creek is loud.

The FBI was called in at week 3. They have taken all evidence with them to examine. All four adults were polygraphed, the results are not public but Sheriff says the FBI is going over them to see if there is anything local LE missed.

The parents home and vehicles were searched and with permission of the parents.

There were reportedly 2 RSOs in the area, one of which may have lived at the campground or worked there or something. This came from WSrs.

(modsnip)

Sheriff believes the parents are "good", "solid" and that everyone is being truthful with him and cooperating fully with LE.
 
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