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  1. #1
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    Post Your Profile #2

    I'm posting this here because the profile thread has closed. I have been thinking about how the known victims all worked in the sex trade and am wondering how common it is for a sk to be exclusive to escorts/ prostitutes. I am thinking of Gary Ridgeway. Did he exclusively kill sex trade workers or did he occasionally kill other vulnerable people like hitch hikers or runaways. Just a thought.

  2. #2
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    I was trying to think of the last set of killings that wasn't related to sex workers. If we're talking strictly female victims the last one that I can think of that wasn't sex worker related is Derrick Todd Lee out of Louisiana. I can think of several not SW related but none within the last 10 years or more that come to mind.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR1 View Post
    I was trying to think of the last set of killings that wasn't related to sex workers. If we're talking strictly female victims the last one that I can think of that wasn't sex worker related is Derrick Todd Lee out of Louisiana. I can think of several not SW related but none within the last 10 years or more that come to mind.
    I looked up Gary Ridgeway and found out t hat not all of his victims were sex workers. Some were runaways.

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    Israel Keyes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    I wonder what a comparison between sks that only kill sex trade workers and those that kill sex trade
    Workers and others (Like Gary Ridgeway) would tell us.I'm also interested in which known sk commited crimes that are most similar to the LISK.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteryattic View Post
    I wonder what a comparison between sks that only kill sex trade workers and those that kill sex trade
    Workers and others (Like Gary Ridgeway) would tell us.I'm also interested in which known sk commited crimes that are most similar to the LISK.
    This case immediately reminded me of the New Bedford / Fall River serial killer in the late 80s who left his victims along the highway.

    Websleuths link: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...89)-*UNSOLVED*
    Last edited by marble; 08-30-2015 at 09:55 PM. Reason: added link

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR1 View Post
    I was trying to think of the last set of killings that wasn't related to sex workers. If we're talking strictly female victims the last one that I can think of that wasn't sex worker related is Derrick Todd Lee out of Louisiana. I can think of several not SW related but none within the last 10 years or more that come to mind.
    not many i don't think either--but A. SOWELL comes to mind

  8. #8
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    With all that is going on in the country now, it seems like it would be a good time for a media outlet to pick up on the lack of movement on this case.

  9. #9
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    One killer or two killers?

    A short recap;

    What I believe is;

    LISK is a band of Black (Hispanic) individuals. Two, possibly three perps. There is at least one kinship relation within the Band. The Band is responsible for the murders of;

    Fire Island Doe 1
    Peaches Doe 2
    Jane Doe and John Doe 1997 3
    Eve Eskin Brown 4
    Jane Doe 2000 5
    John Doe 2000 6
    Andre Jamal Isaac
    Jessica Taylor
    John Doe 2003 7
    Rashawn Brazell 8
    Tirrel Santiago (missing)
    Maureen Brainard Barnes 9
    Thalia Stathis 10
    Tanya Rush
    The Mom and The Baby
    Melissa Barthelemy 11
    Megan Waterman
    Amber Lynn Costello

    1. http://doenetwork.org/cases/1019ufny.html
    2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peache...rder_victim%29
    3. http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/...ticle-1.777684
    4. There is a named individual interviewed by the police. Ms. Brown’s phone was found in his possession. And a small time car thief, whose blood was on the steering wheel (claims pried his hand trying to steal the airbag)
    5. https://identifyus.org/cases/9680
    6. https://identifyus.org/cases/2725
    7. https://identifyus.org/en/cases/13094
    8. There is a named individual interviewed by the police. He’s thought to have a date with Mr. Brazell. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Rashawn_Brazell
    9. There is an individual who is reported to have robbed Ms. Barnes. Her sister says this was looked into by NYPD. There may be a named individual in that case as well
    10. Her phone records were subpoenaed by Police.
    11. There is a named individual interviewed by the police. Ms. Barthelemy’s phone was found in his possession.


    The Asian Male is Tirrel Santiago. The Band is not from Long Island. They are from Brooklyn, NY and/or New Jersey.


    - Megan kidnapped silently suggests more than one perp, probably armed.
    - Andre Jamal Isaac murder suggests more than one perp, confirmed armed.
    - Body parts being further in the bush than intact bodies suggests more than one perp. Probably two people holding the body by the ends and tossing onto the bushes.
    - Peaches Doe disposal suggests more than one perp
    - Jessica Taylor and John Doe 2003; Jane Doe 2000 and John Doe 2000 murders (taking control of two victims) suggests more than one perp, probably armed, probably busting them on business. As can be clearly seen in the case of Jane Doe and John Doe 1997
    - Ocean Parkway is not a desolate road. Why would you build a 2X2 road for a destination nobody goes? So, dumping a body on a fairly trafficked road requires a lookout. Probable hint of a third individual.
    - The blog post on Rashawn Brazell murder clearly refers to three individuals
    - Police blotter on the day of Tirrel Santiago’s report refers to three individuals robbing and stabbing a man at subway station.


    For more, you can read my previous posts. Maps and stuff.. All I have is there.



    What I don’t believe is;
    Everything SCPD tells.



    The question is; “one killer” or “two killers”, or in other words: Are all victims murdered by the same individual/group?

    Answer: Yes. It is one killer.


    Since I think it’s a Band, each singular person “he” below referring to LISK should be interpreted as “they”.


    Before we continue, let’s answer a question… Answers are “my” answers.


    - Did he take any risks?
    Answer: No

    - But he called Sis Amanda?

    Melissa’s family were being shooed by the police while they were trying to report her missing. So, there is really no solid risk taken. The girls’ files were put on shelves after a few weak attempts by the police. So, as always, when LE fails it must always be a genius, cunning, devilish killer.

    He did not take any risks. He did not try to taunt the police or the media or the families. Especially after the discovery of the bodies, he kept a super low profile. For example, what I think is he [i.e. one of them (age 51)] is currently residing in Georgia. He definitely avoids risk.


    What about the dolls? Who put them?

    It can be;
    1) LISK
    2) A crazy man
    3) A crazy woman
    4) Phelps
    5) Police


    Answer
    1) I’ll try to show below that it is not LISK.
    2) Anybody got punished for obstruction of justice or impeding an investigation?
    3) Same above
    4) Really? Television got so low?
    5) …. (that is silence)



    HOW DO WE DEDUCT IT IS ONE KILLER?

    To do that, we must look at the murders in chronological order.

    Fire Island Doe – 1996 – Dismembered
    Peaches Doe – 1997 – Dismembered
    Jane Doe and John Doe - 1997 – Dismembered
    Eve Eskin Brown - 1999 – Dismembered
    Jane Doe 2000 - Dismembered
    John Doe 2000 – INTACT!
    Andre Jamal Isaac - 2002 - Dismembered
    Jessica Taylor - 2003 - Dismembered
    John Doe 2003 – INTACT!
    Rashawn Brazell – Feb 2005 - Dismembered
    Tirrel Santiago - Aug 2005 – Intact
    Maureen Brainard Barnes - Intact
    Thalia Stathis – 2007 - Intact
    Tanya Rush – 2008 - Dismembered
    Melissa Barthelemy – Intact
    The Mom and the Baby - 2008/2009 - Dismembered
    Megan Waterman – Intact
    Amber Lynn Costello – Intact

    LISK is one of a kind. He’s not doing the dismemberment for fun. That is for a purpose. He doesn’t want the victim to be identified. That means if we can identify the victim, we may have an idea who LISK is. Since the identified victims are all prostitutes, we can say he’s someone around prostitutes. Not a cop, not a john, not a pimp - all explained before- but someone prowling around hotels & motels for quick cash and rape.

    Now, killing a person is one thing, dismembering a body is another thing. Not even all killers can do that. If you look at what LISK is doing, he removes hands and head, i.e. face and fingerprints. Try to find a similar killer, that consistently does that. You won’t find any.

    If the identity of the victim is risky, LISK dismembers.

    So, if we assume that he is not a risk taker and not doing the dismemberment for fun, we must be seeing a transformation. That means, whenever he feels safe, he will stop the dismemberments. Because, in addition to being a burden, dismemberment is also an extra risk. Time consumed, leaving evidence etc.

    Do we see that evolution?
    Yes.

    1- John Doe 2000 and John Doe 2003 are not dismembered. Because identifying them (customers) doesn’t tell anything about LISK.
    2- As can be seen with Jessica, Jane Doe 6 and Peaches Doe. He doesn’t really care whether or not the torsos are found. His priority is hands and head.

    So, what is happening?

    In 1996 Fire Island Lady, the first known victim in Long Island, is found. Clearly there is too much effort there (i.e. risk). Legs are cut, hands are cut, parts are probably stuffed in bags and dumped in different locations. Legs are found but the head isn’t. He put it on the side of Ocean Parkway. So, LISK has an experience now. “I put the head on the side of that road and it is not found.”

    1997, Peaches Doe… Head and hands not found to date (Note here; there are some body parts found along the route. I don’t know if they are examined) So, to say the least, LISK probably he has at least one more place, that is not discovered. (Remember, we also don’t know where the rest of The Mom is)


    Jane Doe and John Doe - 1997. Probably something went wrong there and they were caught off guard by the cleaning crew.

    Eve Eskin Brown – 1999 – Some parts in Brooklyn in a construction site.

    Jane Doe 2000 – Around the days JD6 was killed, there is a construction going on in the Brooklyn dump site. So, they go on a road trip, to Manorville. It is the human behavior that when you need to hide two objects (one big and one small) in two places (one big and one small), what you do is you put the big thing in the big box and small thing in the small box. That’s what he does. He dumps the torso in Manorville and the rest in Gilgo. Torso is found but the small bag isn’t. Gilgo scores again. Interesting thing is only one of her legs is removed, not both. It is not about a tattoo removal, because we know she has a tattoo which SCPD found and still to date keeps as a secret. Why one leg only? It is probably a “phuck it” moment for LISK.


    2002 Andre Jamal Isaac. Since he is a huge man, they probably leave the torso where they commit the murder. In Rockaway, dump the hands and head along the Sunrise Hwy. All parts are found. Sunrise Highway fails.

    2003 – Jessica Taylor.. Big Thing in Big Box, Small Thing in Small Box. Gilgo scores one more time. How come? This small stretch of land is a great dumping spot?!! LISK gaining experience.

    Feb 2005 Rashawn Brazell- Probably their sloppiest moment on the way and they were almost caught. Indeed, Georgia Guy sees the interior of an interview room. Lessons must be learned.

    Aug 2005 – Tirrel Santiago

    Now, what they want is “rape, rob and not get caught”. Killing is a measure not to get caught. Minimizing risk would be a complementary action. Since the small strip on Gilgo proved how functional it is, they stop dismembering and dump the body intact. Time is minimized, travel distance is minimized, risk of evidence contamination is minimized.

    After that we start to see intact bodies. I have another probable explanation, but it also results in the same conclusion.

    What is different is; Thalia Stathis (2007), Tanya Rush (2008) and The Mom (2008-2009).

    Thalia Stathis. Reported to be found in a bag. Dismemberment is not indicated officially, still it is probable that she was dismembered.

    Tanya Rush. Dismembered. All parts in the same suitcase. Probable that this is just functional (to fit a body in trolley case) not to hinder identification.

    The Mom: Dismembered. Now, looking at the chronology, it doesn’t seem to make sense. She should have been left intact. But given the fact that he separated The Baby and The Mom, it can be surmised that LISK is not happy about the victim to be identified. Sasha and Selah Davis perhaps?.. So, dismemberment again comes in play.. Probably, he has a direct connection with the Mom, which is why he dismembers and separates the body parts.
    Last edited by Emre E; 09-23-2015 at 11:21 PM.

  10. #10
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    great post.. still think you are forcing way too many connections where there aren't any.. The GB4 are unique and of a set different from the rest (unless of course SCPD would admit to any dismemberment). Recall the ONLY available witness to the voice of the GB4 murderer, MB's sister, claims he's a white guy.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EpiVox444 View Post
    great post.. still think you are forcing way too many connections where there aren't any.. The GB4 are unique and of a set different from the rest (unless of course SCPD would admit to any dismemberment). Recall the ONLY available witness to the voice of the GB4 murderer, MB's sister, claims he's a white guy.
    There is no dismemberment element with GB4 as we know (and no reason to think otherwise) and what I'm saying is that is the anticipated evolution. LISK goes from dismemberment to intact bodies as he figures how discrete Gilgo is.

    Witness thing is a bit complicated I believe

    Sara K (Maureen's friend) saw a man. I believe she saw a member of the band and I have an idea who he is. I wrote to Meltruth about that, to cooperate to look into that but no reply so far.

    Sis Amanda says , sounded like "an older white guy". Other than that there is no solid fact that we can rely on to assert a white perp. For me, the absence of unnecessary torture/overkill alone points to a black perp.

    I would really love to hear Amanda's opinion on a sound recording on youtube. It was posted here, I'm sorry I don't remember who posted it. I'll check and add below.

    I also have a sound clip. Interesting thing is; the voice on my sound clip belongs to a black man (the Georgia guy), resembles the voice on the youtube bit and indeed kinda sounds like an older white guy.

    EDIT
    It was by CriminalMinds
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...8#post11929058


    EDIT 2
    How do we understand LISK started to trust Gilgo?

    The Baby and The Mom

    If you find a dead baby, you'll instantly start to look for the mother.

    If you find a dead woman, you don't go like "Oh, this woman must have a baby, let's look for the baby". That would be nonsense.

    So, he has to separate The Mom and The Baby, and for that, he chooses to put the baby in Gilgo and the mother in Nassau Co., not the other way around. Hiding the baby is more important.

    Since, hiding the baby is more critical compared to hiding the mother, he chooses Gilgo to put the baby, because his experience tells him that "whatever you put in Gilgo stays in Gilgo".
    Last edited by Emre E; 09-25-2015 at 04:30 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysteryattic View Post
    I'm posting this here because the profile thread has closed. I have been thinking about how the known victims all worked in the sex trade and am wondering how common it is for a sk to be exclusive to escorts/ prostitutes. I am thinking of Gary Ridgeway. Did he exclusively kill sex trade workers or did he occasionally kill other vulnerable people like hitch hikers or runaways. Just a thought.
    Although some might target prostitutes specifically just because they are prostitutes, I imagine that most serial killers who kill women select targets based on opportunity, and obviously prostitutes provide a lot of opportunity due to the way they have to work. But really, the victims of these guys could be just about anyone if the circumstances were right.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emre E View Post
    Sis Amanda says , sounded like "an older white guy". Other than that there is no solid fact that we can rely on to assert a white perp. For me, the absence of unnecessary torture/overkill alone points to a black perp.
    You are correct that her description of his voice doesn't confirm that he is white but it's likely she is correct in her assumptions based not only on the sound of his voice but also the things that were said. The second part of your statement I'm not following you at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Emre E View Post
    f you find a dead woman, you don't go like "Oh, this woman must have a baby, let's look for the baby". That would be nonsense.

    So, he has to separate The Mom and The Baby, and for that, he chooses to put the baby in Gilgo and the mother in Nassau Co., not the other way around. Hiding the baby is more important.

    Since, hiding the baby is more critical compared to hiding the mother, he chooses Gilgo to put the baby, because his experience tells him that "whatever you put in Gilgo stays in Gilgo".
    Splitting them up was important to him. It tells us something, I'm just not sure what that is yet. Could be their identification could lead directly to him or it could be he wanted the child nowhere near the Mother because of his hatred towards the mother.

    If this is the same guy, I'm not sure the toddler was more important to conceal. While its true that the other remains (JD6) (JT) (Asian Male) that were likely there had went undiscovered, it would also pose a risk in that if some of the other remains were ever found, chances are the canvas of the area would locate the child as well. The more bodies in a certain area the greater the chances of them all being found.

    There is speculation that the mother was not intact, possibly dismembered. If this is the case then that along with the fact that she was the one separated far apart from most of the others, way on down the road past the 96 victim who had likely laid there safely for over ten years, this appears to indicate it was more important to him that she not be identified.

    To me its curious that you have what seems like one set of jewelry dispersed between the two. A woman with two bracelets but no earrings or necklace? I don't think so.

    Namus by the way still has the gender listed unsure for the child, and all parts recovered.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR1 View Post
    You are correct that her description of his voice doesn't confirm that he is white but it's likely she is correct in her assumptions based not only on the sound of his voice but also the things that were said. The second part of your statement I'm not following you at all.




    Splitting them up was important to him. It tells us something, I'm just not sure what that is yet. Could be their identification could lead directly to him or it could be he wanted the child nowhere near the Mother because of his hatred towards the mother.

    If this is the same guy, I'm not sure the toddler was more important to conceal. While its true that the other remains (JD6) (JT) (Asian Male) that were likely there had went undiscovered, it would also pose a risk in that if some of the other remains were ever found, chances are the canvas of the area would locate the child as well. The more bodies in a certain area the greater the chances of them all being found.

    There is speculation that the mother was not intact, possibly dismembered. If this is the case then that along with the fact that she was the one separated far apart from most of the others, way on down the road past the 96 victim who had likely laid there safely for over ten years, this appears to indicate it was more important to him that she not be identified.

    To me its curious that you have what seems like one set of jewelry dispersed between the two. A woman with two bracelets but no earrings or necklace? I don't think so.

    Namus by the way still has the gender listed unsure for the child, and all parts recovered.
    LISK doesn't strike me as a kill addict. Nowhere torture becomes an element. Especially with JD6 and Jessica Taylor, whose bodies were found fairly fresh. Given the fact that almost all sexual predators are repeat offenders I can say he did time. He simply avoids prison, if he could rape, rob and assure the silence of the victim he wouldn't bother to kill them.

    Whenever an opportunity to minimize the effort and risk appears he takes it. He moves from excessive dismemberment to forensic dismemberment (hands and head only) and no dismemberment in time, as he figures how good a hiding place OPWY is.



    Mom is just extremities in a bag.
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...1#post10885811


    Overkill is the trademark of white killers, and by overkill I don't mean how horrible the death is, I mean how fiercely the perp tried. For example, burning a victim alive may look like "overkill", but it is not in terms of "efforts of the killer". You can find a few examples check for yourself. Not a 100% thing, but very accurrate.

    Coincidence?
    Here's a test. Get an A4 printout of Long Island map. Get a pin. Close your eyes. Move the map a back and forth, rotate it to disturb its position and try to hit Ocean Parkway with the pin. Try to do it twice to create a coincidence. (That is if GB4 and other victims are not related and it's a mere coincidence)


    Coincidence?

    Melissa's Sister gets a call
    "I hear you're a half-breed."

    Rashawn Brazell's brother gets a call
    "Oh, I didn't know that he had a brother that was supposed to be a gangster."

    Eve Eskin Brown's husband gets silent calls from his wife's phone.



    Coincidence?
    Melissa's phone is found in the posession of an ex-con
    ... he picked it up after a tussle between hookers in Times Square orchestrated by a pimp."

    Eve Eskin Brown's phone is found in the posession of a thief
    ....a man who told them Eve's phone had been stolen from a U-Haul truck.


    Coincidence?
    Asian Male's lower left mandible is deformed
    Tirrel Santiago's lower left mandible is deformed

    Coincidence?
    Thalia Stathis was found on on the side of a road on the Southern State Parkway in the North Merrick. In a bag
    http://goo.gl/N8V9l9

    Tanya Rush's body was found on the next intersection about a mile east on the map. In a trolley case.
    http://goo.gl/vGBvUs

    Try to figure out how the prosecution proved count#2
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...1#post10954591


    Coincidence?
    New Jersey Prostitute Slayings
    http://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/29/ny...killer-no.html

    The description of a crime committed by a New Jersey sex offender
    "OFFENDER AND CO-OFFENDER BROKE INTO A MOTEL ROOM, ROBBED THE OCCUPANTS AND SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AN ADULT FEMALE DURING THE COURSE OF THE ROBBERY."

    Look at Jessica Taylor and John Doe 2003, JD6 and John Doe 2000, Jane Doe and John Doe 1997. I see it is clear that some career criminals who know what they are doing are busting prostitutes and their clients on the business. To rape and rob. See the map
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d#post11170329

    Coincidence?
    Sara K describes the man who robbed Maureen; a man with dreadlocks
    The New Jersey Sex Offender referred above is; a man with dreadlocks

    Coincidence?
    The Blog Post on Rashawn Brazell murder refers to three men, one from Newark
    The New Jersey Sex Offender referred above is; a man from Newark

    The way I see it; SCPD is quite aware that the killings has got nothing to do with Suffolk County. They know they are dealing with a serial dumper, not a serial killer. So, they just sweep the case the under the rug. Because these are prostitutes. Who's gonna fight LE teeth and claw for them? Suffolk residents? Families of the victims who have a hard time making ends meet?

    Otherwise, how else one can explain?
    - why they list a baby girl as SEX:UNSURE,
    - omit to list the mother,
    - not disclosing the tattoo of a victim for 15 years,
    - not disclosing the clothing of a male victim who is said to be in women's clothes
    - and most importantly not disclosing the burlap.

    They don't want to solve anything.
    Last edited by Emre E; 09-26-2015 at 05:26 PM.

  15. #15
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    Emre,

    No disrespect but you need to read up on the idea of Occam's razor. I believe these murders ( or at least some of them) were commited by one serial killer acting alone. Your theories seem a little far fetched for me.

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