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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch321 View Post
    Someone has to call the DMV.
    Unfortunately the state only keeps 7 years of titling records on file. This has been going on since at least the 80's.

  2. #62
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    So, I was reading some older posts again on Joy's blog, and someone who works in LE pointed out (in the visitor comments) there were no attacks in 1988, and I can't find any similar attacks/abductions after Jacob.

    Here is a timeline of the attacks as per Joy's blog:

    Paynesville Incidents:
    LINK


    1. March 9, 1986
    2. November 30, 1986
    3. June, 1986
    4. August 1986
    5. November 30, 1986
    6. February 14, 1987
    7. May 17, 1987
    8. Summer, 1987
    9. September, 1987
    10. Summer of 1989 or 1990
    11. Late summer 1989
    12. March 1991 (this case would exclude DAH, but no one was attacked or abducted. I don't rely much on this incident)


    Jared's Abduction:
    January 13, 1989
    LINK

    Jacob's Abduction:
    October 22, 1989

    Incidents after Jacob's abduction seem to stop. So why no similar attacks/abductions in 1988 or after Jacob?

    DAH was arrested in October 1987 for a DUI. It looks like he was convicted 2/11/88 - His sentence was 180 days of confinement.
    http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/CaseDet...seID=176431352

    Then on 4/19/88 he was charged with 5th degree assault and aggravated violations. Whether he was in jail or not when these incidents occurred I do not know.
    http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/CaseDet...seID=176386575

    6/30/88 - He is charged again for having forbidden contraband articles. This seems to me like he was in jail at the time.
    http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/CaseDet...seID=176369594

    I cannot tell how long he was actually incarcerated for all of these charges. Because of possible plea deals, or early releases. However, I do know he spent at least some time in 1988 locked up. Originally, he would have been released around March 1988 from his DUI conviction, however, with the assault, aggravated violations and contraband charges (which all seem like offenses that happened while he was locked up) I am betting his original 180 day sentence lasted longer.

    I am trying to figure out if he was incarcerated, or released prior to January 1989 when Jared's attack occurred. Any help with this would be appreciated!

    And on 1/22/90, he was locked up for good. Only three months after Jacob's abduction. Attack's stopped after Jacob - is this why?
    http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/CaseDet...seID=176423402

  3. #63
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    ELOCsoul is offline Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifermn View Post
    So, I was reading some older posts again on Joy's blog, and someone who works in LE pointed out (in the visitor comments) there were no attacks in 1988, and I can't find any similar attacks/abductions after Jacob.

    Here is a timeline of the attacks as per Joy's blog:

    Paynesville Incidents:
    LINK


    1. March 9, 1986
    2. November 30, 1986
    3. June, 1986
    4. August 1986
    5. November 30, 1986
    6. February 14, 1987
    7. May 17, 1987
    8. Summer, 1987
    9. September, 1987
    10. Summer of 1989 or 1990
    11. Late summer 1989
    12. March 1991 (this case would exclude DAH, but no one was attacked or abducted. I don't rely much on this incident)


    Jared's Abduction:
    January 13, 1989
    LINK

    Jacob's Abduction:
    October 22, 1989

    Incidents after Jacob's abduction seem to stop. So why no similar attacks/abductions in 1988 or after Jacob?

    DAH was arrested in October 1987 for a DUI. It looks like he was convicted 2/11/88 - His sentence was 180 days of confinement.
    http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/CaseDet...seID=176431352

    Then on 4/19/88 he was charged with 5th degree assault and aggravated violations. Whether he was in jail or not when these incidents occurred I do not know.
    http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/CaseDet...seID=176386575

    6/30/88 - He is charged again for having forbidden contraband articles. This seems to me like he was in jail at the time.
    http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/CaseDet...seID=176369594

    I cannot tell how long he was actually incarcerated for all of these charges. Because of possible plea deals, or early releases. However, I do know he spent at least some time in 1988 locked up. Originally, he would have been released around March 1988 from his DUI conviction, however, with the assault, aggravated violations and contraband charges (which all seem like offenses that happened while he was locked up) I am betting his original 180 day sentence lasted longer.

    I am trying to figure out if he was incarcerated, or released prior to January 1989 when Jared's attack occurred. Any help with this would be appreciated!

    And on 1/22/90, he was locked up for good. Only three months after Jacob's abduction. Attack's stopped after Jacob - is this why?
    http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/CaseDet...seID=176423402
    That Hart may have been in jail or otherwise held during the times that no incidents occurred, is the most logical and compelling circumstantial link to Jacob and Jared. The potential link to his mother in Waite Park could possibly explain a reason for Hart to be in the area.

    What confounds me however, is that LE should have made these rather obvious connections themselves, back in 1989. Hart was a suspect from the beginning, you would think they would have fully vetted these things.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELOCsoul View Post
    I

    That Hart may have been in jail or otherwise held during the times that no incidents occurred, is the most logical and compelling circumstantial link to Jacob and Jared. The potential link to his mother in Waite Park could possibly explain a reason for Hart to be in the area.

    What confounds me however, is that LE should have made these rather obvious connections themselves, back in 1989. Hart was a suspect from the beginning, you would think they would have fully vetted these things.
    Agreed.

    Although, according to what I've read, LE (on Jacob's case) wasn't aware of the Paynesville incidents at the time.

    Finding whether or not DAH was in prison in January 1989, and hopefully what vehicle(s) he was driving between 86-89 would be incredibly helpful. I'm stuck at a dead end again with this one.

  5. #65
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    Very good research. We did go over this court info a while back on one of the old threads (yours is very nicely formatted and includes the Paynesville incidents) and could not figure out if he was out of jail or not either the day of the abduction. If only we had jail record access. He was arrested on a farm. Maybe the owner of that farm remembers if he was out or not.
    Children are our future. Treat them with respect, love and care.

  6. #66
    ELOCsoul's Avatar
    ELOCsoul is offline Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifermn View Post
    Agreed.

    Although, according to what I've read, LE (on Jacob's case) wasn't aware of the Paynesville incidents at the time.

    Finding whether or not DAH was in prison in January 1989, and hopefully what vehicle(s) he was driving between 86-89 would be incredibly helpful. I'm stuck at a dead end again with this one.
    Keep in mind that today's LE is the third generation of Stearns County investigators working the case, they may not have been familiar with the Paynesville cases. However, Newspaper articles from 1990 state that LE was not able to connect Hart to the Paynesville cases, so we know they were aware of them at that time. More recent media coverage claiming they were never investigated is misleading and exploitive, IMO.

    I do wonder if Harts alleged alibi was thoroughly vetted.

    Hart was aware that LE were looking for a newer model car that was blue in color, he suggested to investigators several people who had cars with descriptions consistent with that. Whether or not he was being completely truthful is another matter entirely.
    Last edited by ELOCsoul; 09-14-2015 at 01:19 PM.

  7. #67
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    ELOCsoul is offline Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbrown324320 View Post
    Very good research. We did go over this court info a while back on one of the old threads (yours is very nicely formatted and includes the Paynesville incidents) and could not figure out if he was out of jail or not either the day of the abduction. If only we had jail record access. He was arrested on a farm. Maybe the owner of that farm remembers if he was out or not.
    The farm has only one employee remaining since 1989, and he said he doesn't remember Hart. Hart May have been a temporary or seasonal employee though.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifermn View Post
    Agreed.

    Although, according to what I've read, LE (on Jacob's case) wasn't aware of the Paynesville incidents at the time.

    Finding whether or not DAH was in prison in January 1989, and hopefully what vehicle(s) he was driving between 86-89 would be incredibly helpful. I'm stuck at a dead end again with this one.
    LE did know about the attacks. I do not know where it is, but LE addressed that very topic.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by human View Post
    LE did know about the attacks. I do not know where it is, but LE addressed that very topic.
    From what I read, LE in Paynesville was aware, but it was not linked to JW's case. On 'The Hunt' they made it seem as though investigators on Jacob's case never linked them together, and that Joy Baker was the first to do so.

    Can you help clarify? I was under the impression from the press Joy's blog has received that the Paynesville attacks were a revelation. They stated neither Jared or Patty Wetterling knew about the Paynesville incidents, which seems bizarre because you'd think they would share that info.

    I don't want to spread any false info. But my impression was the Paynesville incidents were not linked to Jared or Jacob until Joy Baker brought it to light.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifermn View Post
    From what I read, LE in Paynesville was aware, but it was not linked to JW's case. On 'The Hunt' they made it seem as though investigators on Jacob's case never linked them together, and that Joy Baker was the first to do so.

    Can you help clarify? I was under the impression from the press Joy's blog has received that the Paynesville attacks were a revelation. They stated neither Jared or Patty Wetterling knew about the Paynesville incidents, which seems bizarre because you'd think they would share that info.

    I don't want to spread any false info. But my impression was the Paynesville incidents were not linked to Jared or Jacob until Joy Baker brought it to light.
    LE absolutley investigated them back then. As a matter of fact, I believe that is how DAH was found in the first place.

    There is LE that stated that they knew about the attacks. I don!t know how to find it or what search words except maybe Paynesville and it would come up,here.

    ELOC said the same thing up above

    I don't understand how Patty could say that because I know Jerry said that DAH was not involved. I remember because at the time I was so happy that they found the perp and then Jerry said in an article that it ws not DAH. But this is all my memory re the article.

    But the Paynesville is on here


  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by human View Post

    I don't understand how Patty could say that because I know Jerry said that DAH was not involved. I remember because at the time I was so happy that they found the perp and then Jerry said in an article that it ws not DAH. But this is all my memory re the article.
    WCCO-TV asked Patty Wetterling if she had ever heard of the Paynesville cases and showed her two of the original police reports from the Paynesville attacks.

    “We did not know about these cases until Joy Baker put it on her blog, and it was like, ‘Wow,'” Patty Wetterling said.

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/0...bduction-case/

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifermn View Post
    WCCO-TV asked Patty Wetterling if she had ever heard of the Paynesville cases and showed her two of the original police reports from the Paynesville attacks.

    “We did not know about these cases until Joy Baker put it on her blog, and it was like, ‘Wow,'” Patty Wetterling said.

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/0...bduction-case/
    Jennifermn,

    It is my understanding:

    Jared is from Cold Springs which is not synonymous with Paynesville. Jared and Jacob's cases were indeed "linked" by LE from the beginning, most noteably by the sketch Jared helped to compile with LE for use in Jacob's search.

    Now, what is "new" were the related Paynesville cases which were not linked to Jared or Jacob at the time.

    Shergal, Jbrown, Eloc: I'll be in the area within the next month and thought about hitting up the courthouses to see if there are any more details on DAH's incarnation (namely going on the timeline Jennifermn has outlined), but wanted to ask if any of you had already tried this (if so I won't bother). Lmk here or by pm

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caoutchouc View Post
    Jennifermn,

    It is my understanding:

    Jared is from Cold Springs which is not synonymous with Paynesville. Jared and Jacob's cases were indeed "linked" by LE from the beginning, most noteably by the sketch Jared helped to compile with LE for use in Jacob's search.

    Now, what is "new" were the related Paynesville cases which were not linked to Jared or Jacob at the time.

    Shergal, Jbrown, Eloc: I'll be in the area within the next month and thought about hitting up the courthouses to see if there are any more details on DAH's incarnation (namely going on the timeline Jennifermn has outlined), but wanted to ask if any of you had already tried this (if so I won't bother). Lmk here or by pm
    Thanks for the reply, Caoutchouc!

    Rereading my post, I should have clarified better. I have the same understanding as you on this, I just didn't word it in the best possible way.

    Paynesville attacks occur, LE in Paynesville investigates
    Jared's attack occurs in Cold Spring. LE in Cold Spring investigates.
    Jacob's abduction occurs, LE/FBI, etc. investigate and link to to Jared's case but not to the Paynesville incidents.

    My remark to Eloc regarding why LE didn't investigate further into Hart (in terms of Jacob's case) was possibly because they did not know of what happened in Paynesville.

    Quote Originally Posted by ELOCsoul
    What confounds me however, is that LE should have made these rather obvious connections themselves, back in 1989. Hart was a suspect from the beginning, you would think they would have fully vetted these things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifermn
    Agreed.

    Although, according to what I've read, LE (on Jacob's case) wasn't aware of the Paynesville incidents at the time.
    To me this is important, because LE may have looked at Hart separately for all three cases, but they weren't putting the pieces together at the time it appears. If they had linked one suspect to all three cities (Paynesville, Cold Spring & St. Joseph) they might have created a better timeline.

    But then again, I don't even know if DAH was a free man at the time of Jared's attack. So these points may all be moot.

  14. #74
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    There may be some aspects to "web sleuthing" that is exploitative, as in we do gain personal satisfaction from the thought of helping with the case or find it interesting looking up facts.

    And for me, there are the memories of how I felt about Jacob's abduction as a child. I didn't understand why someone would take him. My parents, being the blunt people that they are mentioned he was "a goner" (not to me, but I overheard) and I cried. I began reading books about abductions the next year (1990) when I was only ten. The entire situation horrified me, yet I kept looking for more info. Maybe to make sense of it? I don't know. I suppose this is all selfish as well, because of how it made me feel, my desire to learn more and understand. But I do feel empathy for Jacob and his family. When I see Patty & Jerry growing older, and each passing year with no resolution, it makes my heart ache.

    So while some of us may have selfish, or exploitative motives, they are not done so in a way to harm anyone and we really want to help, even if for our own ego or to make us feel better about what happened to Jacob. Because his abduction did create so much anger, and fear, and sadness and that hole has never quite been filled.

    To address some of the other things mentioned; I do agree with you regarding "Hollinger" and Dan Rassier - I just can't find any sort of link or reason why we should be very interested. But maybe people know information that I do not know.

    DAH is my #1. Unfortunately, he didn't appear to own property and is very difficult to find old info on. I'd like to find out with 100% certainty dates he was incarcerated, locations he lived, and vehicles he drove/owned.

  15. #75
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    Why do you think LE almost immediately announced that DAH had nothing to do with Jacob?

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