968 users online (139 members and 829 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 114
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Sere-nity View Post
    Would a car dealership keep inventory history of cars they had during a specific period. If the perp was using borrowed cars then there wouldn't be a DMV record of an individual related to the case as owning it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Given that statement.....how is it known that the afternoon car driver in the Monte Carlo is the perp? Find the Monte Carlo. All other cars are irrelevant. Excepting Kevin's girlfriend's Grand Prix of course.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by cGorg View Post
    Given that statement.....how is it known that the afternoon car driver in the Monte Carlo is the perp? Find the Monte Carlo. All other cars are irrelevant. Excepting Kevin's girlfriend's Grand Prix of course.
    What year is Kevin's girlfriend's Grand Prix?

    I believe both the Chevy Monte Carlo and the Pontiac Grand Prix were GM 'G' platform rear wheel drive cars. A non-car enthusiast could easily confuse a Grand Prix and Monte Carlo, in fact a frequent complaint in this era was that all GM cars looked the same.

    In Joy's interview with Kevin she catches on to the implications of this and asks Kevin if he drove through DR's house earlier in the day. He denies doing do, still.........





    777

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    224
    Registered, yes. But the likely hood that this car is still on the road is remote. And no, your information is incorrect in assuming that every car ever produced in the US is permanently on record. Many companies have been bought and sold (AMC, Studebaker, Nash, Packard) with their records being purged. Each state varies greatly in the amount of information they keep on file.

    I'm an automotive researcher and historian, and utilize my connections with individuals who have access to those records and files. Nearly half of all cars I inquire on have ZERO paper trail, and I inquire on a lot. Minnesota purges their files after 7 years, this is a fact, and there is no secondary storage of this information. I own multiple collector cars that are currently and have been consecutively registered since the early 90's in MN. None of them have files beyond 7 years ago.

    As far as the manufacturers? GM lost quite a bit of their archive in a fire years ago. Sure such providers as the Marti Report, PHS and the NCRS have some information on the cars, but not all will tell you colors, options, owners etc..

    And all known owners? No chance. Many, many cars change hands w/o ever being titled or registered. The perp could have easily ran stolen or fake plates on an untitled car the night of the abduction. It was 1989, and almost every single manufacturer at that time were running a body style that would have been in place for over a decade.



    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    The VIN information, car details like make and color, all known owners, registration information by state etc. is kept permanently by both the manufacturer and the shared database used by the insurance industries.

    Any car that has ever been manufactured in the US is more or less permanently recorded.




    777

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    224
    Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Chevrolet and GMC all shared the A and G body platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by cGorg View Post
    Given that statement.....how is it known that the afternoon car driver in the Monte Carlo is the perp? Find the Monte Carlo. All other cars are irrelevant. Excepting Kevin's girlfriend's Grand Prix of course.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16,291
    Quote Originally Posted by StinkSprings View Post
    Registered, yes. But the likely hood that this car is still on the road is remote. And no, your information is incorrect in assuming that every car ever produced in the US is permanently on record. Many companies have been bought and sold (AMC, Studebaker, Nash, Packard) with their records being purged. Each state varies greatly in the amount of information they keep on file.

    I'm an automotive researcher and historian, and utilize my connections with individuals who have access to those records and files. Nearly half of all cars I inquire on have ZERO paper trail, and I inquire on a lot. Minnesota purges their files after 7 years, this is a fact, and there is no secondary storage of this information. I own multiple collector cars that are currently and have been consecutively registered since the early 90's in MN. None of them have files beyond 7 years ago.

    As far as the manufacturers? GM lost quite a bit of their archive in a fire years ago. Sure such providers as the Marti Report, PHS and the NCRS have some information on the cars, but not all will tell you colors, options, owners etc..

    And all known owners? No chance. Many, many cars change hands w/o ever being titled or registered. The perp could have easily ran stolen or fake plates on an untitled car the night of the abduction. It was 1989, and almost every single manufacturer at that time were running a body style that would have been in place for over a decade.
    In 89 LE would be able to put in info about cars that were being reported, but they got no good info?

    From the description of the van, do you have any guesses on the year?

    Even in 89 records were only kept for 7 years?

    So it could be a van from the 70's and it would not show up?

    Or, if it kept being sold, would it show up?

    Why do you think LE never, that we know of, got info on some of these distinctive vehicles?

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by human View Post
    In 89 LE would be able to put in info about cars that were being reported, but they got no good info?

    From the description of the van, do you have any guesses on the year?

    Even in 89 records were only kept for 7 years?

    So it could be a van from the 70's and it would not show up?

    Or, if it kept being sold, would it show up?

    Why do you think LE never, that we know of, got info on some of these distinctive vehicles?
    I think I've read too many threads, articles, blogs, the book, etc. Sometimes I get my info mixed up, so forgive me if I am wrong - but weren't some of the vehicles we are discussing related to the incidents in Paynesville? LE never linked that to JW's abduction, so I imagine they didn't look into them.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    567
    With this post of mine as background, would any of the vehicles listed above along with the two supposedly seen by DR resemble a Pontiac 6000?
    What do we think? What do we know? What can we prove?

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by StinkSprings View Post
    Registered, yes. But the likely hood that this car is still on the road is remote. And no, your information is incorrect in assuming that every car ever produced in the US is permanently on record. Many companies have been bought and sold (AMC, Studebaker, Nash, Packard) with their records being purged. Each state varies greatly in the amount of information they keep on file.

    I'm an automotive researcher and historian, and utilize my connections with individuals who have access to those records and files. Nearly half of all cars I inquire on have ZERO paper trail, and I inquire on a lot. Minnesota purges their files after 7 years, this is a fact, and there is no secondary storage of this information. I own multiple collector cars that are currently and have been consecutively registered since the early 90's in MN. None of them have files beyond 7 years ago.

    As far as the manufacturers? GM lost quite a bit of their archive in a fire years ago. Sure such providers as the Marti Report, PHS and the NCRS have some information on the cars, but not all will tell you colors, options, owners etc..

    And all known owners? No chance. Many, many cars change hands w/o ever being titled or registered. The perp could have easily ran stolen or fake plates on an untitled car the night of the abduction. It was 1989, and almost every single manufacturer at that time were running a body style that would have been in place for over a decade.
    I'm just going to have to strongly disagree with this.

    You're imagining that the state records are the main source of car records and that their 'rules' control the data. This is wrong.

    I do insurance work occasionally and we've pulled up cars as far back as the 1960s with no information except "green Ford Galaxy 500". This data isn't controlled by the government or any state. It's under no regulatory authority. Its a private database.

    Everytime you insure a car the insurance company keeps a record of it and shares it with the industry. Forever. It's one way they produce individualized rate quotes, btw.

    Furthermore, the insurance company buys all the data produced by the manufacturers. Once a car is assigned a VIN, the insurance industry is already aware of it, even before it has a registered owner and before it's titled in any state.

    There are great data centers and server farms underground in Oklahoma that house all this car insurance data.

    Now, obviously I agree with you that the car may not have been titled correctly and there are other shenanigans possible with registration/paperwork/forging documents, etc. but every car has a trail that is going to lead somewhere.

    ...besides the kind of effort you are implying to conceal the true owner of a car is somewhat more sophisticated than I would expect in a case involving criminals not principally dealing in illegal cars.




    777
    Last edited by 777; 09-04-2015 at 01:07 AM.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by Fukiyama View Post
    With this post of mine as background, would any of the vehicles listed above along with the two supposedly seen by DR resemble a Pontiac 6000?
    Sure.

    I think so.

    I think the Pontiac 6000 was an A platform GM product....which translates into something like a very generic looking square shaped car that all GM families offered....Chevy, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick. (not sure about Cadillac though..)

    Really, most GM products from this era could be called one of 4 or 5 different cars depending on the knowledge of the observer.

    But I'm getting a little confused with your own post your previously referencing. Where is the 6000?
    ...just from my first reaction I'd say Jared's abductor's car might be a 6000.

    >>UPDATE <<ok I know what you're talking about now....the earlier incident with boys being harassed on their way to Tom Thumb that Joy discovered>>

    First of all, it's very curious that these boys would choose 'Pontiac 6000' themselves in describing a car. It's kind of an obscure model, not really famous. I imagine someone, like the cops, showed them pictures of cars or took them out to a parking lot and had them pick out a similar example. BUT, if the boys really did have some good reason to specifically pick Pontiac 6000 then that is very valuable. I kind of doubt it. It was dark and they were scared.

    Second of all, I think its more accurate to say that the boys really just meant they saw a standard American car of the era. Really. Unless these boys know something about cars I wouldn't even trust them to pick Ford v. GM v. Chrysler.

    Third of all, this story from Joy is really something. My first reaction to reading it is that this is common, it is what older kids do to younger kids they happen to encounter. Also remember the boys with Jacob in their first reaction to the abduction thought that this might be a prank played by older boys. Even though my first reaction to this story is that it's just teenagers picking on younger boys, in the context of the biggest crime in MN history, this event happening to other boys going to TT could be huge. Also, I read this story and I think - this car and driver lives in the neighborhood. He pulls into a driveway and waits......Your thoughts?



    777


    777
    Last edited by 777; 09-04-2015 at 01:32 AM.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    567
    When I first read that post at Joy's blog where she recounted the story of those boys, it rang true to me. You could be right that it being a prank is a possibility. That would be one weird prank to me, though.

    Regarding the 6000, knowing that make and model specifically and how they picked that out is interesting. Maybe their parents or family had a 6000? Such ugly cars back then.
    What do we think? What do we know? What can we prove?


  11. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by Fukiyama View Post
    When I first read that post at Joy's blog where she recounted the story of those boys, it rang true to me. You could be right that it being a prank is a possibility. That would be one weird prank to me, though.

    Regarding the 6000, knowing that make and model specifically and how they picked that out is interesting. Maybe their parents or family had a 6000? Such ugly cars back then.
    As for the boys experiencing the menacing car a few weeks before Jacob, it's the kind of thing I experienced as a boy. There is or was a definite kind of ongoing harassment / hazing / abuse of younger boys by older boys in certain communities. It's hard to make all the known evidence in this case match any one scenario*, but I don't discount the boys' initial impression during the abduction that this was older boys playing a trick on them. The gravelly voice doesn't fit but everything else does - including most especially the party area that Joy discovered and with which Kevin is so intimately familiar. The boys were told to run to the trees by someone who knew there were trees over there....


    777




    * In most every case there is some evidence that doesn't fit - even when the criminal is eventually caught.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    224
    I think we all have been chased around by the older kids at night. The main difference is someone wasn't abducted weeks after we were chased on the same street.

    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    As for the boys experiencing the menacing car a few weeks before Jacob, it's the kind of thing I experienced as a boy. There is or was a definite kind of ongoing harassment / hazing / abuse of younger boys by older boys in certain communities. It's hard to make all the known evidence in this case match any one scenario*, but I don't discount the boys' initial impression during the abduction that this was older boys playing a trick on them. The gravelly voice doesn't fit but everything else does - including most especially the party area that Joy discovered and with which Kevin is so intimately familiar. The boys were told to run to the trees by someone who knew there were trees over there....


    777




    * In most every case there is some evidence that doesn't fit - even when the criminal is eventually caught.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16,291
    Were all of the cars that passed the boys that night identified?

    I remember an orange station wagon as one that LE was wondering about.

    Were there any other descriptions of cars that night that have not been identified?

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    16,291
    Quote Originally Posted by StinkSprings View Post
    I think we all have been chased around by the older kids at night. The main difference is someone wasn't abducted weeks after we were chased on the same street.
    Were Jacob, Aaron and Trevor chased by a car?

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    224
    I never referenced that they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by human View Post
    Were Jacob, Aaron and Trevor chased by a car?

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Tracking BSL's Vehicles
    By whatsthatnoise in forum Mickey Shunick
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 08-06-2012, 10:53 PM
  2. Vehicles
    By Virgogalsue in forum Zahra Clare Baker
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 11-09-2010, 06:50 PM
  3. JAG vehicles
    By marieblasdell in forum Chelsea King
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 03-20-2010, 03:41 AM
  4. Vehicles owned or used by Garrido
    By JDB in forum Jaycee Lee Dugard
    Replies: 164
    Last Post: 02-24-2010, 12:56 AM

Tags for this Thread