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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fukiyama View Post
    Thank you for taking the time and effort to post that. So it sounds like there could be some weirdo driving around out there.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fukiyama View Post
    Interesting that they were disbelieved because they disagreed about the colour of the car. After dark, red looks like black and of course a dark blue can look like black from a distance any time of the day or night. I find that story more believable than many of the similar tales from children in the wake of a child abduction claiming that they were followed by a sinister looking man in a white van or whatever.

  3. #48
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    No more thoughts on cars?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by human View Post
    No more thoughts on cars?
    Well, since you asked... We have concentrated on cars. A pickup truck of that era would have used tires that would look very close to a car tire, however the width between centers for the tire tracks would be a bit wider. An older pickup would have a king pin front suspension rather than ball joints, and as such the tires might "wander" a bit in the line of travel. Same with a Jeep. We only know what DR reported, and to that point, we do not know if it is factual or misinformation for motives unknown.
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  5. #50
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    I don't think any suspicious trucks were reported. Doesn't every farm have at least one pick up truck?

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by human View Post
    I don't think any suspicious trucks were reported. Doesn't every farm have at least one pick up truck?
    I agree. We had a pickup and a 5 ton stake body. One thing of note is that in the photographs (unless I missed it) I did not see the dual rear wheel marks of a larger truck. I am not really sure what they raise on the farm and if it has changed over the years.
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  7. #52
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    We have both of what DR and Kevin reported.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trackergd View Post
    Well, since you asked... We have concentrated on cars. A pickup truck of that era would have used tires that would look very close to a car tire, however the width between centers for the tire tracks would be a bit wider. An older pickup would have a king pin front suspension rather than ball joints, and as such the tires might "wander" a bit in the line of travel. Same with a Jeep. We only know what DR reported, and to that point, we do not know if it is factual or misinformation for motives unknown.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELOCsoul View Post
    The following analysis is my opinion only.

    Itís all about the cars, simple as that. Specifically, is DR telling the truth when he says he saw two cars in his driveway on the day that Jacob was abducted (with neither of those cars being Kevin's)? And equally as important, when did he report that information to LE and the media?

    On the one hand, if DR is telling the truth about the cars, and told LE about those cars from day one Ė then it stands to reason that he could well be an innocent witness, and there was indeed something sinister brewing in St Joseph on that 22nd day of October 1989.

    Factors That Support DRís Story About the Cars
    1. He did tell the media, on October 23, that he saw a small car turn around in his driveway. That info was reported in the St Cloud Times and directly quoted to DR.
    2. There were several attempted abductions reported within a 50 mile radius of the Twin Cities in fall 1989, with the car being described as a large tan car. The abduction attempts reported tended to be within a few miles of I-94.

    On the other hand Ė if DR did not tell LE about the 2 cars right away Ė that would most certainly indicate that he made up the story in an attempt to cover up the crime. If he saw the cars, there would be no logical reason for him to withhold that information from LE.

    Factors That Question DRís Story About the Cars
    1. If he did tell the media and LE about both the cars he saw in his driveway, then why wasnít that information reported publicly at the time? The newspapers were peppered with stories about attempted abductions, vehicle descriptions, etc Ė why was there no public communication about DR seeing cars?
    2. There were several attempted abductions reported in the area shortly after Jacobís abduction. A tan car was described in several of those reports. If DR did not report on the afternoon car immediately, then itís likely that he took bits of info from the reports of attempted abductions, and crafted a story to fit those scenarios.
    3. DR insists that the driver of that afternoon car is the one guilty of committing the abduction. There is no logic in that assertion; it just doesnít make sense on any level.
    4. Prior to this year, DR has been quoted as saying he witnessed things throughout the day that coalesced in his mind as important information that could lead to the abductor. He refused to go public with the information for fear that it could tip off the kidnapper. Again, that does not make any logical sense. The fact that DR publicly stated that he saw things that day, alone in itself, would tip off the ďrealĒ kidnapper because that person would know or figure out whose driveway he was on when he turned around Ė why would DR think holding back information about the cars would jeopardize the investigation?
    5. DR says he didn't see or hear Kevin's car in the driveway that night, minutes after the abduction. DR's dog barking alerts him to the 2nd car in his driveway, but minutes later Kevin, presumably driving slower than the other two cars, doesn't give the dog cause to bark furiously? IMO, the slower the car in the driveway, the louder and longer a dog will bark. A fast moving car - that's likely to startle a dog, but hard to tell how quickly the dog would react by barking.
    6. When Kevin came forward in 2004 to provide the information that he was driving the car in DR's driveway that night - why did LE suddenly change their theory of the case to an abduction on foot? That would indicate to me that LE didn't "buy" his story about he other two cars he reported (again, when did he report them?). So that raises a big question - if LE didn't believe DR about the other two cars, then why would they believe a car was involved at all, ever?

    Another thing about DRís story that does not add up, in my opinion, are parts of his account of his day. This is an example I don't think anyone has brought up before now - he says he remembers getting the newspaper that evening when he returned from his run. First Ė that is an odd thing to remember about something that happened 23 years ago. Second Ė itís so insignificant that one has to wonder why he even stated it. Third Ė who doesnít look forward to getting the Sunday paper every week? I donít know about you all, but if I donít get the Sunday paper from the box before 8am itís because Iím out of town! OK, yeah Iím probably making too big a deal about the newspaper, but one has to wonder if DRís motive for including that odd detail is to have an explanation at to why his scent or presence was detected near the mailbox where the abduction took place. He lives there, why would he feel the need to justify it?? Just sayiní
    What an outstanding post full of great questions.

  9. #54
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    ELOCsoul is offline Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch321 View Post
    What an outstanding post full of great questions.
    Had forgotten about this post, what was the date of that post? I remember making a big list of all the things we knew at the time and coming to the conclusion that it was indeed all about the cars. If DR was telling the truth then he was innocent, if he was making it up as media suggested then he was probably involved. Turned out he was telling the truth all along....

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELOCsoul View Post
    Had forgotten about this post, what was the date of that post? I remember making a big list of all the things we knew at the time and coming to the conclusion that it was indeed all about the cars. If DR was telling the truth then he was innocent, if he was making it up as media suggested then he was probably involved. Turned out he was telling the truth all along....
    I'm holding out for proof of seperation from kevins and heinrichs tire tracks.


  11. #56
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    So I had a little bit of time last week to do some digging and I have some points to ponder... The Ford EXP is a two door hatchback. We already know the tire pattern for the EXP is consistent with tire tracks in DR's driveway and the FBI has indicated as much. We know our new POI owned a blue Ford EXP. Question 1. The EXP is very unique looking. I would have thought DR would have taken notice of it's unusual body style. Question 2. What is generally accepted as Jacobs last shoe print is next to the tire track, facing what would have been the vehicle. Since the EXP is a two door, if it was facing the street did the perp push him in the drivers door and then get in himself, or was the car facing towards DR's house and he pushed Jacob in the passengers door and run around the front/back to the drivers side? A two door would almost preclude a confederate unless he was crammed in the hatchback area. Pushing Jacob in the passenger side would also mean there were additional perp prints that either made no sense to LE at the time, or were missed. Any thoughts along this line?
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  12. #57
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    ELOCsoul is offline Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trackergd View Post
    So I had a little bit of time last week to do some digging and I have some points to ponder... The Ford EXP is a two door hatchback. We already know the tire pattern for the EXP is consistent with tire tracks in DR's driveway and the FBI has indicated as much. We know our new POI owned a blue Ford EXP. Question 1. The EXP is very unique looking. I would have thought DR would have taken notice of it's unusual body style. Question 2. What is generally accepted as Jacobs last shoe print is next to the tire track, facing what would have been the vehicle. Since the EXP is a two door, if it was facing the street did the perp push him in the drivers door and then get in himself, or was the car facing towards DR's house and he pushed Jacob in the passengers door and run around the front/back to the drivers side? A two door would almost preclude a confederate unless he was crammed in the hatchback area. Pushing Jacob in the passenger side would also mean there were additional perp prints that either made no sense to LE at the time, or were missed. Any thoughts along this line?
    Regarding question number 2...it's always been my opinion that the car was parked facing east, away from the road, and that the car was a 2 door vehicle. Note that from the shadow across the toe of Jacobs print, we know that he was facing south. To me it is most logical that the abductor would have put Jacob into the car from the driver's side, because doing so would make for a faster getaway. This could also explain the front toe digging in, as Jacob would have had to basically crawl through to the passenger side. If the perp was parked facing east, it means there would have been an additional 30-40 seconds of time spent turning around in the DR driveway. That extra time, over and above the time it took to secure Jacob in the car, could explain why Trevor and Aaron never saw a car.

    Regarding the unusual shape of the Ford EXP...it was so dark out I'm not sure DR would have noticed the shape. Factor in that he was not likely wearing corrective lenses at that moment...the scene may have been a little blurry for him.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELOCsoul View Post
    Regarding question number 2...it's always been my opinion that the car was parked facing east, away from the road, and that the car was a 2 door vehicle. Note that from the shadow across the toe of Jacobs print, we know that he was facing south. To me it is most logical that the abductor would have put Jacob into the car from the driver's side, because doing so would make for a faster getaway. This could also explain the front toe digging in, as Jacob would have had to basically crawl through to the passenger side. If the perp was parked facing east, it means there would have been an additional 30-40 seconds of time spent turning around in the DR driveway. That extra time, over and above the time it took to secure Jacob in the car, could explain why Trevor and Aaron never saw a car.

    Regarding the unusual shape of the Ford EXP...it was so dark out I'm not sure DR would have noticed the shape. Factor in that he was not likely wearing corrective lenses at that moment...the scene may have been a little blurry for him.
    DR has proved to be mostly useless as a witness. He would need the car to turn around again under the same circumstances. I wonder what details he revealed about the car immediately the next morning, would be nice to see that information. Was he wearing corrective lenses or not, why do we have to guess?

  14. #59
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    Did DR remember the child or person covering his or her face with their hands the next morning? Or did that come weeks, months, or years later whenever he was hypnotized? When exactly after the abduction was DR hypnotized?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELOCsoul View Post
    Regarding question number 2...it's always been my opinion that the car was parked facing east, away from the road, and that the car was a 2 door vehicle. Note that from the shadow across the toe of Jacobs print, we know that he was facing south. To me it is most logical that the abductor would have put Jacob into the car from the driver's side, because doing so would make for a faster getaway. This could also explain the front toe digging in, as Jacob would have had to basically crawl through to the passenger side. If the perp was parked facing east, it means there would have been an additional 30-40 seconds of time spent turning around in the DR driveway. That extra time, over and above the time it took to secure Jacob in the car, could explain why Trevor and Aaron never saw a car.

    Regarding the unusual shape of the Ford EXP...it was so dark out I'm not sure DR would have noticed the shape. Factor in that he was not likely wearing corrective lenses at that moment...the scene may have been a little blurry for him.
    OK, I was just going over notes and thoughts to ensure I had not missed anything.
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

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