FW

Here are a few things about Fleet:
(Things in parenthesis,is just me thinking out loud)

* FW claims he was responsible for the 12/23 hang up call at the Ramsey's Christmas party.

* FW hosted the party on 12/25,which included extended family members of Fleet and Patricia White.The only neighborhood friends that were invited were the Ramsey's.(Got the Ramsey's out of the house for a few hours,didn't it?)

* Was called to the house by Ramsey's on morning of 12/26.FW shortly after, went into the cellar to check things out.Claims he moved the suitcase looking for broken glass. (That would be a good reason to explain why his fingerprints may be on the suitcase.)

* Goes up to the bedroom with John,to bring Burke down. (Why did he go up with John? Why did he make up BR's bed? Nervous energy maybe ...who knows.)

* Takes Burke to his house,and then comes back.

* Went down to the cellar with John to look for JB,when she was discovered.

* Runs up from the cellar,to a phone,punches in 3 numbers,hangs up,and yells for someone to call an ambulance.( Thats odd,refer back to call on 12/23)

* Was told by Det.Arndt to guard the cellar door. Instead,he bolts down to the wine cellar and picks up the duct tape that was covering JB's mouth and stares at it.(Another good excuse for his fingerprints to be on something it shouldn't be on.Why didn't he listen to Det.Arndt? You didn't see the Fernie's run down to the cellar,or anyone else.)

* At JonBenet's funeral,he becomes very agitated and disruptive. (For whatever reason Fleet was upset,why was it so important to get it out now, at this most unappropiate time?)

* Fleet tells LE,he looked in the wine cellar,he did not see JB's body.

* Days later,he tracks down the Ramsey's,finds out they are meeting with their pastor,barges past the receptionist,to confront them about something.I believe he received something written on a calling card from a reporter.(Why did he feel he had to confront the Ramsey's right then and there?)

* Some lady from California,albeit,she had mental problems, claims Fleet in some way,is involved in a sex ring.(Don't know if true or not,but the LE seemed pretty interested.)


* Has written many rambling letters,to political offices in Colorado,stating the investigation has not be handled right.(Why get so involved for someone who is now a non-friend?)

I don't know if Fleet is involved or not. What I do see,is a very nervous,upset person. Involved or not .... IMO he looks suspicious.

Fleet has been cleared,but as one LE said once,(paraphrasing):.... it's just as easy to unclear someone,if we need to.

Fleet is a hero in this case. There's no way to give the Ramsey's a pass...

Why did John tell his son that he found JonBenet at 10:00 (the same time he disappeared that morning)? Why did Patsy not run to JonBenet? Any mother would. Why did they say JonBenet was asleep and they carried her in the house, when Burke said she walked in? What about the wadded up red top, that Patsy claimed JBR was wearing, then switched to the white top? Why would they even let their son go to the White's when a "foreign faction" was on the loose with their daughter? Why would the killer "clean" JBR? Pretty thoughtful killer. Why would they Ramsey's call their friends over that morning, even though the ransom note said not to talk to a stray dog, or their child would be beheaded (that's the one that made me think there was no intruder). Why blame Fleet for being upset with John (at the funeral)? The Ramsey's stonewalled and didn't want to help the police find the killer. They lawyered-up and left Dodge. And why on earth would Patsy wear the same clothes on the morning they found JonBenet (and wore them the previouse evening)? The pineapple? Why if she was previously molested, why wasn't that resolved? If they were Mr. & Mrs. Joe Average, this case would have been solved a long time ago.

The list goes on and on and on and on. The Ramsey's will never get a pass from me. I do believe that Burke will eventually reveal who did what to JonBenet (and no, I do not think he was involved).

Fleet called 911 weeks before the murder ,as well. His daughter was hiding from him.

luvbeaches,

No where in my post did I give the Ramsey's a pass,nor did I say Fleet was guilty.

I do think,if you look at the list in my post as a whole,it warrants being suspicious,and shouldn't be dismissed.

I wouldn't say Fleet is a hero.

sissi said:

Fleet called 911 weeks before the murder ,as well. His daughter was hiding from him.

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Sissi,

I didn't realize that happened only weeks before the murder.
His six year old daughter hides to the point Fleet needs to call 911. Wonder why she was hiding.

It's probably nothing ... but it's another thing to add to my suspicious list. The list is growing.

Although the Stine connection has had some focus with respect to the BDI, an alternative connection could be via the Whites and the Ramsey's indulging in some kind of ritualistic liberal behaviour.

In defense of Fleet White he may have been aware that JonBenet was being sexually molested, aware in the sense of knowing something was not quite right!

JonBenet by his own admission did request assistance with her toilet routine, assuming he was acting benevolently towards JonBenet, at his age and with a daughter of similar age, its possible he was aware that JonBenet's behaviour was presenting something untoward or irregular.

Possibly her death and accompanying circumstances brought home to him, what had been going on. He realizes that JonBenet's body being discovered in the wine-cellar is either not where "he" had left her or agreed where she should be located, or he genuinely knows she was not located there earlier.

Did the duct-tape present itself to him as old and already used, did he have another look to confirm his suspicions, or was it to make sure it was not duct-tape sourced from his house? Was he concerned his friend John was setting him up, was his subsequent legal moves with this in mind?


If I was involved in a homicide I would not touch anything, I might look around, but certainly not move anything. I would think twice about adopting parental control of any child also so involved, more so if it was a child homicide. And if I made a bed it might be because I knew I was obscuring part of a crime-scene. And I might want to phone a co-conspirator to relay that the staging had been altered, then realize the phone may be tapped so request an ambulance instead?

Fleet tells LE,he looked in the wine cellar,he did not see JB's body. This may be true, in the sense she was lying there, but because he expected her to be found somewhere else he never saw her!

If she was located elsewhere in the house and he was party to this knowledge, but not to the subsequent staging that placed her in the wine-cellar, all his later behaviour could be viewed as an attempt to avoid being placed in the frame?

I've always thought that John screwed up the time bit because he was trying to give it in their local time. Except for a couple years in Seattle we've always lived on the east coast. Now that we live out west it takes an extra loop in my thinking to remember East is ahead not behind us in time. Perhaps John had the same problem and that morning wasn't thinking well enought to remember which way the time change went.

luvbeaches said:

Fleet is a hero in this case. There's no way to give the Ramsey's a pass...

Why did John tell his son that he found JonBenet at 10:00 (the same time he disappeared that morning)? Why did Patsy not run to JonBenet? Any mother would. Why did they say JonBenet was asleep and they carried her in the house, when Burke said she walked in? What about the wadded up red top, that Patsy claimed JBR was wearing, then switched to the white top? Why would they even let their son go to the White's when a "foreign faction" was on the loose with their daughter? Why would the killer "clean" JBR? Pretty thoughtful killer. Why would they Ramsey's call their friends over that morning, even though the ransom note said not to talk to a stray dog, or their child would be beheaded (that's the one that made me think there was no intruder). Why blame Fleet for being upset with John (at the funeral)? The Ramsey's stonewalled and didn't want to help the police find the killer. They lawyered-up and left Dodge. And why on earth would Patsy wear the same clothes on the morning they found JonBenet (and wore them the previouse evening)? The pineapple? Why if she was previously molested, why wasn't that resolved? If they were Mr. & Mrs. Joe Average, this case would have been solved a long time ago.

The list goes on and on and on and on. The Ramsey's will never get a pass from me. I do believe that Burke will eventually reveal who did what to JonBenet (and no, I do not think he was involved).

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Any mother would?
Typical anti Ramsey propaganda. Thier not like me or they didn't react the way I would so they must be guilty.
The list goes on and on but really not one thing you mention is a legitimate reason to suspect the R's.

It's like reading a stump speech.

The only thing relating to the crime is the "wipe down" of JBR and I would think any killer may wipe down a body to destroy evidence.
To be honest we're not even sure she was wiped down.

Capps

I would like to add to your list that FW was franticly writing some kind of notes the entire morning of the 26th. Wonder what he was writing and why.

luvbeaches said:

[...] Why would they even let their son go to the White's when a "foreign faction" was on the loose with their daughter?

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Probably for the same reason the Fernie's sent their son over to the White's that morning.

tipper said:

I've always thought that John screwed up the time bit because he was trying to give it in their local time. Except for a couple years in Seattle we've always lived on the east coast. Now that we live out west it takes an extra loop in my thinking to remember East is ahead not behind us in time. Perhaps John had the same problem and that morning wasn't thinking well enought to remember which way the time change went.

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You mean Atlanta time as opposed to Boulder?
Still, it would have been a 2 hour difference, not three.

Guess that wouldn't be it then. I think of us as close enough to CO to have the same time zone. But sometimes we're on Mountain time and sometimes Pacific and clearly, at no time, should I be trusted with any of it!

There you go ....

There are 15 things mentioned in this thread alone,that make me raise an eye brow.

I'm not saying he's guilty,or even involved.I'm certainly not mentioning Fleet just to take any pressure off the Ramsey's.

But I do think there's enough unusual behavior,if I was LE, to but him on the radar screen.

I hope he's not involved in any way.

Fleet,at the risk of going to jail,refused to testify at a trial pertaining to the Thomas Miller ransom note debacle. (Still don't know how he's involved with that one,which makes it even more suspicious.)

That's 16.

capps said:

luvbeaches,

No where in my post did I give the Ramsey's a pass,nor did I say Fleet was guilty.

I do think,if you look at the list in my post as a whole,it warrants being suspicious,and shouldn't be dismissed.

I wouldn't say Fleet is a hero.

Click to expand...

From what I've read (in the past), there's no reason for me to believe Fleet was invloved in JBR's death. I do think Fleet is a hero. You may not, and that's fine, but I do.

Once the Ramsey's had their little tea-party that morning...things changed for me.

tipper said:

Probably for the same reason the Fernie's sent their son over to the White's that morning.

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The Fernie's daughter hadn't been "kidnapped." If the Ramsey's were at all concerned about a foregin faction, they should have kept Burke with them. The Ramsey's were the target, not the Fernie's. IMO, the Ramsey's knew there wasn't a foreign faction out there that might harm Burke, so they sent him on his way.

Zman said:

Any mother would?
Typical anti Ramsey propaganda. Thier not like me or they didn't react the way I would so they must be guilty.
The list goes on and on but really not one thing you mention is a legitimate reason to suspect the R's.

It's like reading a stump speech.

The only thing relating to the crime is the "wipe down" of JBR and I would think any killer may wipe down a body to destroy evidence.
To be honest we're not even sure she was wiped down.

Capps

I would like to add to your list that FW was franticly writing some kind of notes the entire morning of the 26th. Wonder what he was writing and why.

Click to expand...

You can make what you want of their actions, but to me, there's no way they can be explained away. Nope...not at all.

tipper said:

I've always thought that John screwed up the time bit because he was trying to give it in their local time. Except for a couple years in Seattle we've always lived on the east coast. Now that we live out west it takes an extra loop in my thinking to remember East is ahead not behind us in time. Perhaps John had the same problem and that morning wasn't thinking well enought to remember which way the time change went.

Click to expand...

John said he found the body at 10:00 (but in reality found it at 1:00) and you think he meant Pacific Time (or whatever time zone)? He lived in Boulder. He knew what time it was. It was a slip up. That happens when you are lying. I think he did find the body at 10:00...had an OMG moment, and then went back upstairs to figure out what to do. Then went Ardnt sent him to look around, he officially found it. My guess is things weren't adding up for him that morning...as in not knowing who in his family did what. At least that's my opinion of it. I think Steve Thomas hit the nail on the head.

I think Burke's going to resolve this one of these days....poor kid. He lost his life that same night his sister did. A few beers at a frat party, and he'll tell someone what he heard that night. Until then, I should probably stay away from this forum. It's like beating a dead horse. No one is going to change my mind, and I'm sure I won't change anyone else's either...not that I want to.

capps said:

Fleet,at the risk of going to jail,refused to testify at a trial pertaining to the Thomas Miller ransom note debacle. (Still don't know how he's involved with that one,which makes it even more suspicious.)

That's 16.

Click to expand...

Didn't Fleet do 30 days in jail for that? Somebody did.

I don't think Fleet did this murder though I do think his behavior, particularly in Atlanta, was exceedingly odd.

He is another one who is self-alibied. He says he went up to bed after the party while Priscilla stayed up and chatted in the kitchen for another 3 hours.

Is that 17?

tipper said:

I don't think Fleet did this though I do think his behavior, particularly in Atlanta, was exceedingly odd.

He is another one who is self-alibied. He says he went up to bed after the party while Priscilla stayed up and chatted in the kitchen for another 3 hours.

Is that 17?

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Tipper,

That could possibly be 17,but do you know more about it,like what is the 3 hr time frame? Can anyone vouch for Fleet for those 3 hours? Things like that? If not ... yeah,that can possibly be an eye brow raiser.

I don't think FW killed JB either ... was he involved somehow? I don't know ... I can't rule him out.

luvbeaches said:

John said he found the body at 10:00 (but in reality found it at 1:00) and you think he meant Pacific Time (or whatever time zone)? He lived in Boulder. He knew what time it was. It was a slip up. That happens when you are lying. I think he did find the body at 10:00...had an OMG moment, and then went back upstairs to figure out what to do. Then went Ardnt sent him to look around, he officially found it. My guess is things weren't adding up for him that morning...as in not knowing who in his family did what. At least that's my opinion of it. I think Steve Thomas hit the nail on the head.

I think Burke's going to resolve this one of these days....poor kid. He lost his life that same night his sister did. A few beers at a frat party, and he'll tell someone what he heard that night. Until then, I should probably stay away from this forum. It's like beating a dead horse. No one is going to change my mind, and I'm sure I won't change anyone else's either...not that I want to.

Click to expand...

I had a long answer which the computer just ate. Suffice it to say I think it is too bad your mind is closed. I have said several times there are things which would instantly make me change mine.

Perhaps you might be interested in reading this case:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/chamberlain/chamberlainhome.html


"I have referred elsewhere to the unsatisfactory features in Mrs. Chamberlain's account of having seen a dingo at the tent and I do not underestimate their importance. It can fairly be said that there are inconsistencies and improbabilities in her story and in the various versions she has given of it. However, as I point out in Chapter 15, there are possible explanations for many of the apparently unsatisfactory features of her evidence. On the other hand, the obstacles to the acceptance of the Crown's case are both numerous and formidable. Almost every facet of its case is beset by serious difficulties. Some of these must now be mentioned.
The Crown is unable to suggest a motive or explanation for the alleged murder. The undisputed evidence is that Mrs. Chamberlain was an exemplary mother and was delighted at Azaria's birth. She did not suffer from any form of mental illness nor had she ever been violent to any of her children. She had spent the day with her family on 17 August and had not exhibited any sign of abnormal behaviour or of irritation with Azaria. She was not stressed when she took Azaria to the tent for her expressed purpose of putting her to bed. "