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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELOCsoul
    Here is a little something that is probably not really significant, but something that I noticed. First, look at the picture below, and note where the 2nd telephone pole is indicated. That's the spot where Jacob's footprints reportedly ended. This photo represents how the poles exist today, and that is in fact the 2nd pole from the road today.

    http://saintautumn.files.wordpress.c.../07/stjoe2.jpg

    Now - look below at this collage of photographs of the crime scene, taken in 1989. Look at the bottom right photo in the collage. In this picture, you can see that there is a telephone post next to DR's driveway, immediately off the road. What this means is the indicating arrow on the above photo was really the 3rd pole from the road back in 1989. (The pic's will enlarge if you click on them by the way.) I've checked, the pole along the driveway next to the road does not exist today.

    http://saintautumn.files.wordpress.c...ime-scene1.jpg

    So, I'm curious if Jacob's footprints only go up to what was the 2nd pole in 1989, or if they went up to what is the 2nd pole today?? Again, probably not overly significant - although if it's the latter, it could suggest more strongly that Jacob was abducted on foot.

    Thanks,
    Rob
    Interesting observation. Has it ever been stated how far up the driveway (in feet, meters, yards, etc.) the footprints go? I thought there was mention of dogs being used to track his scent, also. Where did the dogs lose the scent?
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:03 PM. Reason: quote link

  2. #17
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    ELOCsoul is offline Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepHopeAlive
    Interesting observation. Has it ever been stated how far up the driveway (in feet, meters, yards, etc.) the footprints go? I thought there was mention of dogs being used to track his scent, also. Where did the dogs lose the scent?
    I've never seen the distance quoted in terms of units of measure, only with reference to the 2nd telephone pole. The dogs lost Jacob's scent where his footprints indicated resistance, and ended. At that point, Jacob was presumably carried, put into a vehicle, or put into something else.

    I've always wondered about he abductor's prints as well. Surely if Jacob's prints were found, the abductor must have also left a similar trail? I wish we could have access to more information that authorities have.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:03 PM. Reason: quote link

  3. #18
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    ELOCsoul is offline Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
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    Just in case anyone thinks that Dan Rassier is just now giving us this story about seeing a small car turn around in his driveway, below is an excerpt from the October 24, 1989 St Cloud Times article follow Jacob’s abduction.

    “I saw headlights kind of close together, like a small car,” said Dan Rassier, who lives on a farm at (xxxxx) (XX)st Avenue. “It caught my attention because it’s unusual for a car to be out here at that time.”
    A bloodhound from the Minneapolis police department led officers to the tire tracks, confirming their hunch that the man had a car nearby.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELOCsoul
    Just in case anyone thinks that Dan Rassier is just now giving us this story about seeing a small car turn around in his driveway, below is an excerpt from the October 24, 1989 St Cloud Times article follow Jacob’s abduction.

    “I saw headlights kind of close together, like a small car,” said Dan Rassier, who lives on a farm at (xxxxx) (XX)st Avenue. “It caught my attention because it’s unusual for a car to be out here at that time.”
    A bloodhound from the Minneapolis police department led officers to the tire tracks, confirming their hunch that the man had a car nearby.
    I remember that and I guess I was always under the impression that it was that one car he saw turn around in his driveway. I think it's the second car coming all the way in and turning around also that I don't recall hearing about.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:03 PM. Reason: quote link

  5. #20
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    ELOCsoul is offline Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
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    The Focus on Only the 1 Car

    Quote Originally Posted by shergal
    I remember that and I guess I was always under the impression that it was that one car he saw turn around in his driveway. I think it's the second car coming all the way in and turning around also that I don't recall hearing about.
    This is my theory (not my opinion of what happened) of how this all came down in 2004:

    Back in 1989, DR tells LE of the 2 cars he sees in his driveway that day / night. LE and the media focus on the 2nd car only, because that one appears to be relevant to Jacob's abduction. LE confirms there are tire tracks in DR's driveway by the house (this is speculation on my part) and we know they found tracks by where Jacob's footprints disappear.

    LE looks for a small car involved in Jacob's abduction. Finally, Kevin comes forward with his information. LE clears Kevin as a suspect, and then they theorize that from the info DR has given them, Kevin's car is supposedly the 3rd car that went into DR's driveway that day / night. LE had confirmed the presence of tire tracks by DR's buildings (again, my theory) - they can understand how 2 sets of car tracks could mostly overlap, but they don't believe 3 cars could have taken the same path. LE comes to the conclusion that 3 cars in DR's driveway is unlikely - they believe only 1 car was in the driveway and that it was Kevin's after the abduction. Therefore, they believe Jacob was abducted on foot, and they believe it to be local.

    Simultaneously, the media continues to focus on the one car again - which is Kevin. Knowing that Kevin was cleared of suspicion, and probably getting some "suggestion" from LE, attention turns to DR exclusively. In light of opportunity, lack of alibi, assumption of abduction on foot - DR becomes the primary suspect in the case. It's a logical and convenient solution to the case - but, in my opinion is also based largely on "they got nothing else to go on."

    Again, this is only my theory of how LE's theory evolved after 2004.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:04 PM. Reason: quote link

  6. #21
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    DR's driveway look like a plain dirt road to me in these pictures - not gravel.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shergal
    DR's driveway look like a plain dirt road to me in these pictures - not gravel.

    The upper left picture(the only one I've ever seen of Jacob's footprints) looks very soft + powdery doesn't it? Very discernible footprints + tire tracks.
    The lower left picture is of the approach opposite DR'sdriveway...THAT does appear to be dirt and typically so...as most approaches to farmers fields were dirt while the country roads gravel.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:04 PM. Reason: quote link

  8. #23
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    picture of tire tracks + some footprints by 2 separate compact cars over the course of the last 3 days. conditions extremely dry(no rain for weeks, mid 90's), 1/4" rain yesterday, gravel parking lot
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #24
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    After some digging, I found a somewhat larger copy of the picture and have saved it on my computer.

    I need to try and clean it up a bit. It is somewhat out of focus and blowing it up cases more distortion.

    From what I can see at this point, there are two tire tracks, one that has prints on top of it, and one made about the same time as the prints.

    I need to work on this and pull out my pressure release notes and see if I can figure out the one good print I can see.

    I can say the tire track is a standard rib pattern tire. One side edge is very crisp and defined, yet the center pattern is not very deep. Not a snow or mud tire. Looks like what would have been on a sedan or pickup. Now this is out there a bit, but it looks like the same pattern that was on one of our farm trucks back in the 70's. Almost a Goodyear High Miller...60's or 70's vintage. It's a darn old tire pattern... I will research and get back to you folks.
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  10. #25
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    Got it! It's a bias ply tire from somewhere in the 50's to early 70's. If on a later car, it would have come from older stock at a tire dealer. The Coker tire website has some good examples of that style of tire. The vehicle was not too heavy as the foot prints are deeper than the tire track. The print closest to the tire track has grabbed my attention as it is the deepest one and shows force.
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska


  11. #26
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    If you check the Coker tire website and look at vintage bias tires, that's what the tire prints look like. I am thinking old farm pickup or old car not on the road very often, and not during the winter without changing to snow tires.

    This might take a while...I have to make some prints in damp sand to see if I can reproduce the prints in the picture. That will tell me how they were made.
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  12. #27
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    The tire is too narrow for a tractor. It is an older pickup or sedan. 1950's to very early 1970's. Unless someone purchased an older set of tires from a country tire shop with older stock. Stored away in a dark place, tires can last quite a while.

    The tire track next to the prints was made at the same time as the prints. I know this due to the sharp edge of the tire track and lack of erosion by weathering. The tire prints and the foot prints were made at the same time or within 4 hours of each other at the most. Since the tire tracks did not obliterate any of the prints (there are no partial prints I can see sticking out from the tire track, and there are none on the other side of the track I can see, and the closest one to the tire prints show a lot of force, I feel they were made at the same time.

    I am 100% sure of the above based on over 48 years of experience reading prints.

    The tire tracks could not have obliterated all of the perp prints. It is my opinion that whomever investigated these prints was not a tracker and did not know how to read them properly. I am not finding fault with LE, just stating what I am seeing. They have chosen not to share, my guess is that they do not want to be found wanting in their evaluation of the evidence and be liable for error or omission of key evidence..or they know who it is and just cannot prove it enough to arrest the POI.
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trackergd
    The tire is too narrow for a tractor. It is an older pickup or sedan. 1950's to very early 1970's. Unless someone purchased an older set of tires from a country tire shop with older stock. Stored away in a dark place, tires can last quite a while.

    The tire track next to the prints was made at the same time as the prints. I know this due to the sharp edge of the tire track and lack of erosion by weathering. The tire prints and the foot prints were made at the same time or within 4 hours of each other at the most. Since the tire tracks did not obliterate any of the prints (there are no partial prints I can see sticking out from the tire track, and there are none on the other side of the track I can see, and the closest one to the tire prints show a lot of force, I feel they were made at the same time.

    I am 100% sure of the above based on over 48 years of experience reading prints.

    The tire tracks could not have obliterated all of the perp prints. It is my opinion that whomever investigated these prints was not a tracker and did not know how to read them properly. I am not finding fault with LE, just stating what I am seeing. They have chosen not to share, my guess is that they do not want to be found wanting in their evaluation of the evidence and be liable for error or omission of key evidence..or they know who it is and just cannot prove it enough to arrest the POI.
    Tracker, I wonder how this fits in with Kevin driving into that driveway all the way up to the house and coming back out - about a half hour to an hour right after the abduction happened? Is it possible those are his tire tracks? It's hard to believe he would have gone through there twice and not obliterated tire tracks there ahead of him. I would think the deepest, freshest tracks would have been his.

    (In case you're not familiar with the timeline, the 2 remaining boys ran home, their sister's babysitter called her dad next door, and he came over and called 911. Cops arrived fairly fast after the 911 call. Kevin saw the cop cars go by his gf's house with their lights flashing and he ran to his car with his gf and followed them. He lost them along the way and turned into DR's driveway to turn around, but he went all the way up to the house and turned around and came back out according to him. So he would have been there well within your time limit.)

    Once Kevin came forward in 2004 and told LE he had driven in there and turned around, they totally stopped looking for a car, and concentrated on someone local It seems to me to be because the tires on Kevin's car matched the tire prints they found in DR's driveway. IMO, that would be the only thing that would totally stop them from thinking a car had been used.

    We need to find out what kind of car and what tires kevin was using.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:05 PM. Reason: quote link

  14. #29
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    ELOCsoul is offline Verified Author - "Finding Jacob Wetterling"
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    Quote Originally Posted by shergal
    Tracker, I wonder how this fits in with Kevin driving into that driveway all the way up to the house and coming back out - about a half hour to an hour right after the abduction happened? Is it possible those are his tire tracks? It's hard to believe he would have gone through there twice and not obliterated tire tracks there ahead of him. I would think the deepest, freshest tracks would have been his.

    (In case you're not familiar with the timeline, the 2 remaining boys ran home, their sister's babysitter called her dad next door, and he came over and called 911. Cops arrived fairly fast after the 911 call. Kevin saw the cop cars go by his gf's house with their lights flashing and he ran to his car with his gf and followed them. He lost them along the way and turned into DR's driveway to turn around, but he went all the way up to the house and turned around and came back out according to him. So he would have been there well within your time limit.)
    Y
    Once Kevin came forward in 2004 and told LE he had driven in there and turned around, they totally stopped looking for a car, and concentrated on someone local It seems to me to be because the tires on Kevin's car matched the tire prints they found in DR's driveway. IMO, that would be the only thing that would totally stop them from thinking a car had been used.

    We need to find out what kind of car and what tires kevin was using.
    According to Joy's website, Kevin was driving a silver / tan Oldsmobile Gran Prix, the year is not mentioned but it does say the car was mid-sized. Edit: I think that would actually be a Pontiac model rather than an Oldsmobile, or if it was really an Oldsmobile perhaps the model was a cutlass?
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:05 PM. Reason: quote link

  15. #30
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    I am working from a larger version of the picture in the group of four seen on the blog linked in an earlier post.

    The tire print is sharp on the edges and is narrow. Generally narrow tires are taller, which suggests something like a 50's or 60's pickup or a 50's vintage sedan.

    The tire pattern that I can see and the type of tire print is an almost identical match for a vintage bias ply tire that can be seen on any number of website selling vintage tires. Coker Tire is one of them. Wider tires became popular in the late 70's and 80's with the advent of radial tires which became the norm with steel belts causing the method of construction to change.

    In the picture I cannot see any foot prints on the far side of the tire print, nor do I see any foot prints sticking out from under the tire print. The foot print with the most force seems to be right next to the tire print. I have not had time to reproduce the shape of the print in wet sand to know what forces or twisting motions caused that type of print.

    There is mounding on all sides of the print and a large ridge in the center. Without doing the wet sand test, I cannot tell if the large ridge in the center is the arch in a boot with a tall heel or two individual front half of a shoe or sneaker print. The mounding is from a twisting action, yet the print is flat in the center from what I can see.

    For example, say you see a bug on the ground and you step on it with the front half of your shoe and you twist back and forth, and you are in soft dry dirt or dust, you would leave a ridge on the left and right side of the print you would create. (try it and see!) This print is flat and has a high ridge all the way around it, not just on the sides. Mud makes a print look larger than it is because it extrudes under the weight of the person, while dust and sand make the print appear smaller than it is because the sides fall into the print as there is no adhesion of the material.

    While possible, it would be pure chance for someone to drive over that spot a few moments later and not drive over all the prints, and for sure not just over the perps prints. Plus making a turn in would produce two sets of tire prints, one from the front tire and one from the back until the car completed the turn and both tires aligned again. The picture is not good enough for me to read the tire track to see which way it was going in relation to the foot prints (yes, you can tell which direction a car was moving from the tire prints).

    My attempts to discuss the matter with the Sheriff were rebuffed, so I am going to do my best to work with what I have, render an opinion and hope that someone with some authority reads it and takes it further.

    Reading footprints was an art that was common up until the late 1800's and then all but died off (except with ranchers and Jack Kearney of the US border patrol) until the early 70's when interest picked up again based on a book by Tom Brown Jr. Now it is almost a staple for SAR in the most basic sense. They look for matching prints and use a very few of the indicators to determine speed, turns etc... They are not using all the pressure releases and indicators for evidence. For starters there can be up to 84 common pressure releases in a single print.
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

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