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  1. #31
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    Does anyone involved in this thread know if any of the individuals who were suspected or are known to have driven near or on that spot owned a 1950's to 1960's VW Beetle? Yep...tall narrow bias ply tires and a light weight vehicle print.....

    I.WISH.I.HAD.BETTER.PICTURES!
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  2. #32
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    Here is the link to Joy's interview with Kevin, and he describes his girlfriend's car that they were in:

    http://www.joybaker.com/2013/03/14/b...-kevins-story/


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenotebook
    Here is the link to Joy's interview with Kevin, and he describes his girlfriend's car that they were in:

    http://www.joybaker.com/2013/03/14/b...-kevins-story/


    The type tires used on that car appear to be too wide and the car too heavy. When I post my analysis, you will see that the tire prints and the foot prints are almost the same width. That makes it a narrow tire.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:05 PM. Reason: quote link
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  4. #34
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    Exclamation Initial Print Analysis:

    Yellow: Tire Prints - Narrow bias ply ribbed tire pattern
    Light weight or smaller vehicle. Defined sharp edge.

    Red: Not sure about these - Unknown disturbances if no other
    pictures are available.

    Blue: Larger prints with force - Heel digs? Mounding on sides
    Very deep with force. Cannot tell if sole pattern is like green.

    Green: Shallow prints - flat with little force or mounding
    No defined pattern - Flat sole shoe?

    Red W/Yellow: Great pattern prints - flat bottom rib pattern
    Commonly called a "crepe" sole
    LE should have been able to tell if these were Jacobs or a perp

    Jumble of prints with a tire track. "Appears" to be more than one person and some on top of others. Cannot tell if red marked disturbances are prints that were run over or disturbances caused by stones that caused mounding by weight of car.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  5. #35
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    OK. Now you get to play...

    Tell me if you think the tires in these three pictures look like the tire tread in the print photograph.

    Look at the widths and the pattern and tell me what you think.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trackergd
    The type tires used on that car appear to be too wide and the car too heavy. When I post my analysis, you will see that the tire prints and the foot prints are almost the same width. That makes it a narrow tire.
    Trackergd, 2 questions:

    1. wondering... if Kevin's car is too heavy based on the tireprints...then where are his tracks if the tracks in question belong to a lighter vehicle?
    2. not knowing much about cars....do you know if a 70's Chevette either a sedan or station wagon would be light enough to use the whitewall tires you displayed?
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:06 PM. Reason: quote link

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cGorg
    Trackergd, 2 questions:

    1. wondering... if Kevin's car is too heavy based on the tireprints...then where are his tracks if the tracks in question belong to a lighter vehicle?
    2. not knowing much about cars....do you know if a 70's Chevette either a sedan or station wagon would be light enough to use the whitewall tires you displayed?
    Well...I am going to have to give the answer to my post away...

    Tire 1 is an almost dead match for the tire prints and is a Firestone design. I am guessing this tire or the many like it were popular from the 40's to early 60's. There were some cheap tires like it (blackwall) around in the late 60's from places like Pep Boys and J.C. Whitney (mail order parts co).

    I cannot see the entire road from the picture, so I have no idea where Kevin's tire prints are.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:06 PM. Reason: quote link
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  8. #38
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    I've wondered how far up the driveway these prints appeared, and where they actually ended. It looks like in this photo there is a police marking tape behind this man at the end of the driveway. (both photos credit to Joy's blog!)



    The aerial photo shows where on the driveway the tape was (assuming that is the tape and not a shadow??)



    IIRC, the footprints went all the way up to the second light pole? That is quite a ways. I would think they could have gotten some excellent castings of the perps prints as well as the tire casts. I can't believe they weren't able to identify the exact make/year of the tires and put out an alert (which in turn would have supposedly lead to Kevin's car....although I still believe there was a perp vehicle as well).

  9. #39
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    One more thing I just noticed in Joy's blog interview with Kevin...

    "Kevin realizes he’s the one who made the tracks and is sure they’ll trace them back to his girlfriend’s car since the tires were brand new and had just been installed at a St. Cloud tire dealer one week earlier. "

    Tracker, are you able to tell if the tire prints would be from "new" tires with lots of tread left on them?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenotebook View Post
    I've wondered how far up the driveway these prints appeared, and where they actually ended. It looks like in this photo there is a police marking tape behind this man at the end of the driveway. (both photos credit to Joy's blog!)



    The aerial photo shows where on the driveway the tape was (assuming that is the tape and not a shadow??)



    IIRC, the footprints went all the way up to the second light pole? That is quite a ways. I would think they could have gotten some excellent castings of the perps prints as well as the tire casts. I can't believe they weren't able to identify the exact make/year of the tires and put out an alert (which in turn would have supposedly lead to Kevin's car....although I still believe there was a perp vehicle as well).
    I think the top picture of the detective spraying the footprints is looking east as the fenceline is on the north. So there are 2 tapelines: 1 on the east(which DR said he could not get his car through but had to drive on the grass in the ditch) and the other tapeline on the west side of the pavement. You can also see the first pole at the abduction site. That pole is not there today so the tracks/prints were about 40 yards long. It appears to me in the detective picture there are multiple tire tracks and one of the tracks appears to be curved. I agree, one assumes this whole stretch of road would have been analyzed for tracks/prints but it has always bothered me that the detective is creating another set of prints himself.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 07:23 PM. Reason: corrected quote link


  11. #41
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    One other thought I've had regarding the detective picture.....it appears there is a semi-circular white line surrounding the detective and the footprints. If a vehicle was used in the abduction, could it be possible that the perp dragged Jacob from the abduction site in the grass, then an accomplice swung the vehicle in a turn to accomodate the perp forcing Jacob into the car. This would mean that footprints would only appear in this one location along the entire 40 yards. As Trackergd stated, the perps and Jacob's footprints are intermingled in what appears to be a struggle.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cGorg View Post
    One other thought I've had regarding the detective picture.....it appears there is a semi-circular white line surrounding the detective and the footprints. If a vehicle was used in the abduction, could it be possible that the perp dragged Jacob from the abduction site in the grass, then an accomplice swung the vehicle in a turn to accomodate the perp forcing Jacob into the car. This would mean that footprints would only appear in this one location along the entire 40 yards. As Trackergd stated, the perps and Jacob's footprints are intermingled in what appears to be a struggle.
    I don't think there is room on the driveway to turn like that and where are the other set of tires?

    And duh! What about the light pole? Was it a LIGHT or a telephone pole?

    If a light, there would be plenty of light in that spot.

    As far as the tires, they are 1989, not 50-60's. They are probably not bias ply but radial--- the girlfriend's tires.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 07:24 PM. Reason: corrected quote link

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cGorg View Post
    I think the top picture of the detective spraying the footprints is looking east as the fenceline is on the north. So there are 2 tapelines: 1 on the east(which DR said he could not get his car through but had to drive on the grass in the ditch) and the other tapeline on the west side of the pavement. You can also see the first pole at the abduction site. That pole is not there today so the tracks/prints were about 40 yards long. It appears to me in the detective picture there are multiple tire tracks and one of the tracks appears to be curved. I agree, one assumes this whole stretch of road would have been analyzed for tracks/prints but it has always bothered me that the detective is creating another set of prints himself.
    Yep, definitely facing east. Check out the shadow cast by Mund's body. The driveway runs east and west. The sun is to his back so he has to be facing north, and the camera facing east. Also, I would hope they would not allow a media photographer to be up the driveway the day after the abduction.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 07:25 PM. Reason: corrected quote link

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cGorg
    Trackergd....regarding the tire....I really have no knowledge of tires or tracks so didn't even dare venture a guess. The footprint/tire track picture isn't much to go on so amazed you could see what you've seen. Given your analysis, I'm perplexed as to how LE could abandon the car theory after Kevin came forward? If as you alluded to, Kevin's tracks being elsewhere then maybe they were able to identify his tire tracks and clear them as well as the tracks near Jacob's prints.
    Looking at the picture with the officer in it, it appears there are a lot more tracks and tire prints. I can only work with the one picture I was able to find and manipulate for brightness and contrast. I could not blow it up any larger without loosing focus.

    I am perplexed that when someone with the ability to look at the evidence and actually "read it" they are turned away. I am having that occur with another case I am working, and have been for 25 years. LE is just not interested. On some occasions, LE seems to feel that the ordinary citizen is not professional enough to render opinions or be of any help...more of a bother, sorry to say.

    I feel that the entire story is all there...like reading a page in a book in prints. All the evidence and the last clue Jacob left for us to find.

    What worries me more is that everyone from folks looking for Jacob, to LE, to the photographer and locals walked all over the evidence...and too much time has passed to look at all their shoes and sort it out. It happens a lot. Folks just don't know what they are walking on.
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:07 PM. Reason: quote link
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenotebook
    One more thing I just noticed in Joy's blog interview with Kevin...

    "Kevin realizes he’s the one who made the tracks and is sure they’ll trace them back to his girlfriend’s car since the tires were brand new and had just been installed at a St. Cloud tire dealer one week earlier. "

    Tracker, are you able to tell if the tire prints would be from "new" tires with lots of tread left on them?
    The edges are sharp, but the tread pattern is not deep...or the ground was so dry that the ridges standing up crumbled right away. But I still think looking at the depth of the deeper prints and the tire prints that it could not have been a heavy vehicle. Light pickup, VW or something like that. I have an outlier thought that it could have been a large motorcycle if there is only one set of tire prints and no matching set for the other side. But it's not something I can nail down from what little is in the picture. Huh...I wonder if the deep prints could be boot heels from someone on a large bike... How would they have gotten Jacob to get on and stay there.... Just an odd random thought...
    Last edited by bessie; 09-04-2015 at 08:07 PM. Reason: quote link
    Unless otherwise noted, my posts are opinions or theories only and may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance.
    Any general subject matter photographs posted by me are solely to give other WS members an "on the ground" frame of reference of satellite views and are visible to anyone from public roads and access points. They may not be used outside of WS unless permission is requested in advance

    Please help find Lauren Jackson Missing since 1988 Spring City PA

    Pennsylvania Missing Persons Cases:
    Lauren Jackson, Amanda DeGuio, Ray Gricar, Kortne Stouffer, Jamie Metzger, Toni Sharpless, Anna Maciejewska

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