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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by asac View Post
    Yes, I haven't explored it much and decided to click on the 'photography' board as I figured it would be 'safe' for viewing - and then as it was loading I thought "oh wait, what kind of photography is it going to be??". But it was fine!

    Has the 4chan posting before this (Umpqua) shooting definitely been linked to the shooter? I guess that would also give an indication of how 'anonymous' people are managing to be.
    From all the news articles I have read it seems the shooter was posting there and it seems that this threat was also posted there. I assume FBI is rapidly trying to identify the posters involved with this latest threat.

    I also read that a lot of the posters over there use proxy servers and that would make it more difficult. I hope FBI has ways to get around the proxy servers and still able to find out who is making threats. That was a very specific threat and I think a crime has already been committed just by that specific threat. I hope FBI is able to catch them.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatfield View Post
    From all the news articles I have read it seems the shooter was posting there and it seems that this threat was also posted there. I assume FBI is rapidly trying to identify the posters involved with this latest threat.

    I also read that a lot of the posters over there use proxy servers and that would make it more difficult. I hope FBI has ways to get around the proxy servers and still able to find out who is making threats. That was a very specific threat and I think a crime has already been committed just by that specific threat. I hope FBI is able to catch them.
    Yes, I believe the threat alluded to 'the pacific northwest'...so, well, it would be quite a coincidence if it hadn't been him (apparently threats/allusions to threats aren't rare on that particular board) though I haven't read that they've confirmed he posted it.
    Hopefully this new threat is just some dumb kid with a bolder sense of anonymity than he should have.

  3. #48
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    Sep 2011
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    Four high school students in Northern California were plotting to kill as many people as they could at their 650-student school.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...004-story.html

    A day before a gunman in Oregon killed eight classmates and his college writing teacher, Tuolomne County sheriff's detectives foiled a plot by students to go on a shooting rampage at their high school near Yosemite National Park, authorities said.

    The Summerville Union High School students, all male, had detailed plans that “included names of would-be victims, locations, methods in which the plan was to be carried out,” Sheriff Jim Mele told reporters at a news conference Saturday. The targets included other students and faculty members.
    IMO

  4. #49
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    Thanks. I posted this story at the end of the first thread with the disclaimer that I was not trying to start up the gun-control debate. We've been asked to tone that down. But as I said in my post, whether we agree or disagree with him, I think the shooter's father has more standing to weigh in on this topic than anyone on this thread IMO. I hope we can respect his heartfelt feelings. I can't imagine his anguish.

    I don't know how involved he was in his son's upbringing, but it seems clear that the love for guns did not come from him. JMO

    Quote Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
    Oregon shooter's father: Gun laws have to change

    FOUR YEARS IS 1460 DAYS TOO LONG!!
    SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE KNOWS SOMETHING! SPEAK UP!
    STEPHANIE ANNE WARNER, 43, RUCH, OREGON

    MISSING & PRESUMED MURDERED July 4, 2013
    LENNIE AMES NAMED SUSPECT
    Anonymous Tips? Reward up to $1000
    Crime Stoppers of So. Oregon 800-850-0580

    DISCUSSION:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2#post10750872

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by La Louve View Post
    (from my days as a telecommunications paralegal responding to search warrants and subpoenas) The IP address of the poster would have to be identified. Once the IP address is identified then LE would need to get a search warrant signed by a judge to require the ISP to provide the user's identity. That's assuming the poster was not using a proxy server to post on 4chan, in which case their IP address would not be visible without digging into the proxy server site.

    Or, the information for the registration of the particular username would need to be subpoenaed from the owners of the website. (ETA and that's assuming the info would be of any use to LE). From what I know of 4chan, I wouldn't be surprised if they dawdled on providing the info.

    ETA From my years of working with the FBI and ATF on subpoenas and search warrants, if they consider this a credible enough threat to warn the universities, then they are furiously working with telecoms and ISPs to get the user's information.

    And I won't even get into the NSA stuff.
    They need to hire full time moderators to moderate these and report any suspicious activity another group. We need to start policing the interwebs better. I know it sounds easy, its not, but, something needs to be done in this tech age.
    "One man's logic is another man's crazy" - Rossi (Criminal Minds)

  6. #51
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    As far as helping all schools be a little safer I do think hiring armed and trained security guards is a good thing to do. Here is why I feel that way.

    Some campuses like the Oregon school could have benefited by just having 1 on campus since the campus is relatively small. If the security guard was trained and armed and was given a golf cart , he could get to any part of the campus within minutes.

    A security guard in that situation could help to keep the shooter confined and maybe even pinned down or even taken down.

    See these crazy shooters know they have the element of surprise and their tactics assume they have the run of the campus until they see someone shooting back at them. At that point, most all the shooters in incidents like this either kill themselves or at least stay in one place and get pinned down. The idea is to make sure the shooter cannot just walk from 1 building to another without being confronted and shown some resistance. That would give valuable time for other LE to show up.

    Example is the Colorado Theatre shooter. As soon as LE arrived, he gave up. Other examples as soon as LE shot back at them the perp killed themselves because they realize the gig is up.

    So I think even having 1 armed security guard on campus at all times and give them mobility like with a golf cart would help tremendously.

    I don't think it would be that expensive either. A good used golf cart can be bought for 6-8K and if we figure an average salary of 80,000 then it would only cost a school about 80K per year for 1 guard.
    If you want 24 hour coverage, then it would be 3 X 80 = 240K per year.

    I think some of the larger universities already have their own security staff on hand so I don't think the cost of this is as much as some would think. It maybe just ensuring the training is present.

    Anyway I think it would be a wise cost effective deterrent to help save lives.

    To further prove my point, I am reading about LE response to the threat in the East and this is exactly what they are doing. They are sending more patrols and more armed people to be in place. So if that is LE current approach to dealing with possible armed perps on campus then schools can be proactive and have someone on their payroll that is trained and there for this purpose.

  7. #52
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    Golf cart in snow?

    The cart better be bullet proof.

    Why do I feel the US is like Beirut? Although I hear it is good now.

  8. #53
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    The security guard would be the first to die as he drove across the courtyard at warp golf cart speed.
    You don't get a medal for switching alliances just before the result, as it becomes apparent the other team is set to win.

  9. #54
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    I think there'd have to be at least 2 armed guards together. They'd probably be subcontracted, so there's the wages, profit for the employer, ongoing training, insurance etc. It would have to be government funded so all schools can have them, otherwise shooters can just pick the poorer schools.

    It won't deter shooters because they still have the element of surprise and know it's a suicide mission. Some shootings might be prevented by luck, if the guards are in the right place and prepared to put their life on the line. Otherwise, it might just reduce the number of fatalities, wounded and traumatised. What's the measure of success? 5 grieving families instead of 10? 20 traumatised people instead of 40? Better to keep guns and gunmen out of schools altogether. Is there even a conversation about keeping guns out of schools? Or is that infringing too much on gun rights?

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    I think it takes a lot of nerve for him to point fingers at other places, JMO.


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilibet View Post
    Thanks. I posted this story at the end of the first thread with the disclaimer that I was not trying to start up the gun-control debate. We've been asked to tone that down. But as I said in my post, whether we agree or disagree with him, I think the shooter's father has more standing to weigh in on this topic than anyone on this thread IMO. I hope we can respect his heartfelt feelings. I can't imagine his anguish.

    I don't know how involved he was in his son's upbringing, but it seems clear that the love for guns did not come from him. JMO
    In my opinion, there are only 2 people that truly hold some responsibility for knowing what was going on in the shooter's life. One of those people gave him the access to 14 weapons. The other person, who should have had some idea what was going on in this 'special need's' young man's life , apparently had no idea he even had any weapons. And he then publicly blames the gun laws? And is utterly shocked. I think that is a bit of a cop out on his part. If any one could have known what this young man was up to, and given him some help, it was his father.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  12. #57
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    The shooter's father hadn't seen him in two years and they lived hundreds of miles apart. The shooter was an adult, living with his mother, who seems to have fed and encouraged his unhealthy enthusiasm for guns. I don't see how you can blame the father. The parents were not together. I don't see what responsibility he has to 'cop out' of.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montjoy View Post
    The shooter's father hadn't seen him in two years and they lived hundreds of miles apart. The shooter was an adult, living with his mother, who seems to have fed and encouraged his unhealthy enthusiasm for guns. I don't see how you can blame the father. The parents were not together. I don't see what responsibility he has to 'cop out' of.
    The father said:

    "...That's what guns are, the killers. Simple as that. Simple as that. It's black and white. What do you want a gun for?"

    That doesn't seem like deflection to you? His grown son shoots 20 people and he says 'the guns are the killers?'

    His son was lonely and isolated. Who cares if he was not with his ex-wife anymore. That was still his son. Fathers always have responsibility to be supportive of their sons, especially one who is struggling. He seems really quick to blame ALL OF IT on the gun laws, imo. And seems to distance his son and himself from any of it. 'The guns are the killers, simple as that.'

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/04/us/ore...r-gun-control/
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  14. #59
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    Also, if we are going to talk about his mother, shouldn't we also speak about the impact of his father on his life?
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  15. #60
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    None of what you wrote does anything to support your contention above that his father holds some responsibility for his actions. Discussing his statements on gun control is nothing more than deflection from that.

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