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  1. #1
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    Feds investigate Hobby Lobby boss: smuggling Biblical artifacts?


  2. #2
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    This would not surprise me in the least. I have to hope that hateful people like this receive what is coming to them.

  3. #3
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    I'm trying to figure out what actual law was broken.

    Was it simply the improper paperwork (and corresponding avoidance of taxes), or is actually illegal to bring these artifacts into this country?

    Not that I'm defending improper paperwork and tax avoidance, but the article seems to suggest a huge terrible evil act on the part of the HL CEO.

    Probably just as well that those artifacts were brought here, before ISIS destroyed them.
    JMO. MOO.

  4. #4
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    Wasn't Hobby Lobby management in the news for something else not too long ago? I think related to Obamacare or something like that.

    I am pretty sure that tight import restrictions on these types of things have to be done and it sounds like that maybe what the deal is about.

    The ISIS destruction of old artifacts is a terrible thing because those artifacts are irreplaceable. Not sure if the source of these items are from places like that but the least they could do is import properly. It sounds like personal profit reasons were involved.
    Museums are the right kind of place for things like this but they need to keep things on the up and up. It sure seems like a whole underground business happens with these types of things.

    It makes you wonder how museums even get some of their exhibit items because its not like there is a store for things like this. Private sales of artifacts seem to be the predominant way all these items ever get to a museum.

    Its very sad although I think governments don't do a very good job of providing alternative ways of obtaining and storing artifacts. The governments themselves kind of force the industry to be shady because there are not easy set rules to follow and all governements are probably different. And everybody wants to make a buck along the line. Even governments with their taxes, etc.

    Not sure its ever going to change for the better until a multinational store gets developed.
    "Artifacts-R-Us"

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatfield View Post
    Wasn't Hobby Lobby management in the news for something else not too long ago? I think related to Obamacare or something like that.
    They had a well-publicized court case to protect their 'right' to discriminate against homosexuals.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montjoy View Post
    They had a well-publicized court case to protect their 'right' to discriminate against homosexuals.
    Against homosexuals? I thought it was about their desire to not fund abortions, which by definition is not a result of homosexual activity.

    Can you provide a link, please, to their homosexual discrimination case? I must have missed that one.
    JMO. MOO.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatfield View Post
    Wasn't Hobby Lobby management in the news for something else not too long ago? I think related to Obamacare or something like that.
    Rsbm
    You are correct. They were in the news because they wanted to be exempt from the obamacare forced birth control mandate. The Supreme Court ruled in their favor.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/supreme-...ption-mandate/

    Attempting to expand religious expression protections to small business owners without significantly disrupting the rules that govern for-profit corporations, the Supreme Court on Monday ruled that the Obama administration must exempt closely-held firms like Hobby Lobby from a rule requiring large companies to help pay for their employees' birth control.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonjay View Post
    I'm trying to figure out what actual law was broken.

    Was it simply the improper paperwork (and corresponding avoidance of taxes), or is actually illegal to bring these artifacts into this country?

    Not that I'm defending improper paperwork and tax avoidance, but the article seems to suggest a huge terrible evil act on the part of the HL CEO.

    Probably just as well that those artifacts were brought here, before ISIS destroyed them.
    When I read this question my first thought was the Smithsonian Institute and Nasa Museum. What if they were looted?

    How does someone come into possession of artifacts owned by a country? Imo, the answer is they don't, unless that country wants them displayed or kept safe in another country. Even then, another country is unlikely to pick the Green family as the caretaker of ancient artifacts imo. What are the Green family credentials for the safekeeping of ancient artifacts?

    This is theft imo on a very large scale.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BayouBelle_LA View Post
    Rsbm
    You are correct. They were in the news because they wanted to be exempt from the obamacare forced birth control mandate. The Supreme Court ruled in their favor.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/supreme-...ption-mandate/

    Attempting to expand religious expression protections to small business owners without significantly disrupting the rules that govern for-profit corporations, the Supreme Court on Monday ruled that the Obama administration must exempt closely-held firms like Hobby Lobby from a rule requiring large companies to help pay for their employees' birth control.
    Except that's not quite accurate. HL is not exempt from paying for birth control, and they didn't seek to be exempt from paying for birth control. They sought, and received, exemption from paying for certain forms of birth control that are essentially abortifacients.

    It's a very narrowly tailored exemption that is mischaracterized in many articles about it.

    I'm still puzzling over how I missed their case about discriminating against gays. Does anyone know anything about that one?
    JMO. MOO.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodland View Post
    When I read this question my first thought was the Smithsonian Institute and Nasa Museum. What if they were looted?

    How does someone come into possession of artifacts owned by a country? Imo, the answer is they don't, unless that country wants them displayed or kept safe in another country. Even then, another country is unlikely to pick the Green family as the caretaker of ancient artifacts imo. What are the Green family credentials for the safekeeping of ancient artifacts?

    This is theft imo on a very large scale.
    Well, that's just it. That article didn't mention anything about theft. Was it theft? What evidence do you have that it was theft? Who were the artifacts owned by, prior to their acquisition by the HL folks? Did those owners have the right to sell them? Is the investigation even about theft? Or just "smuggling" -- aka, not filing the right paperwork and not jumping through the right bureaucratic hoops and not paying enough in taxes?

    The investigation has apparently been going for 4 years. Is it that difficult to uncover evidence of theft?
    JMO. MOO.

  12. #12
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    Damarna is offline Verified State Coordinator for CFSI/ Insider - Parker Haluptzok
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonjay View Post
    Except that's not quite accurate. HL is not exempt from paying for birth control, and they didn't seek to be exempt from paying for birth control. They sought, and received, exemption from paying for certain forms of birth control that are essentially abortifacients.

    It's a very narrowly tailored exemption that is mischaracterized in many articles about it.

    I'm still puzzling over how I missed their case about discriminating against gays. Does anyone know anything about that one?
    I'm at work so can't do much more than Google to read tidbits. Google Hobby Lobby and homophobic for some info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damarna View Post
    I'm at work so can't do much more than Google to read tidbits. Google Hobby Lobby and homophobic for some info.
    But no link to the court case referred to above? Does it exist?
    JMO. MOO.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonjay View Post
    Well, that's just it. That article didn't mention anything about theft. Was it theft? What evidence do you have that it was theft? Who were the artifacts owned by, prior to their acquisition by the HL folks? Did those owners have the right to sell them? Is the investigation even about theft? Or just "smuggling" -- aka, not filing the right paperwork and not jumping through the right bureaucratic hoops and not paying enough in taxes?

    The investigation has apparently been going for 4 years. Is it that difficult to uncover evidence of theft?
    How does one come into possession of artifacts owned by another country? If someone in Iraq ended up in possession of Neil Armstrong's spacesuit - would fraud/theft not be suspected? Out right said?

    The difficulty imo, is nailing the Green family for any meaningful charge - hundreds of millions in the US coffers would be good at any time no? It would cover the US taxpayer cost of ..., well you know - a good thing imo.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodland View Post
    How does one come into possession of artifacts owned by another country? If someone in Iraq ended up in possession of Neil Armstrong's spacesuit - would fraud/theft not be suspected? Out right said?

    The difficulty imo, is nailing the Green family for any meaningful charge - hundreds of millions in the US coffers would be good at any time no? It would cover the US taxpayer cost of ..., well you know - a good thing imo.
    BBM.

    Do we know who these artifacts were owned by prior to their acquisition by the HL folks? Do we know how the HL folks acquired the artifacts?

    If you know of any articles providing that information, please provide a link. I'm very curious.
    JMO. MOO.

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