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  1. #1
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    UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, England, 19 February 2015 - #12

    Becky Watts trial: Shauna Hoare lied about kidnap texts
    30 October 2015


    Shauna Hoare denies murder and conspiring to kidnap 16-year-old Becky Watts with her boyfriend Nathan Matthews

    'Violent and controlling'
    In one of the messages, sent between November and December last year, Ms Hoare wrote: "Just went into Costcutter and saw a pretty petite girl. Almost knocked her out to bring home lol xoxo."
    Mr Matthews replied 20 seconds later urging her to "do it".
    Ms Hoare said she "massively" regretted lying to police.
    "One, I should not have lied and, second, because of the way it looks, I should have told the truth in the first place," she said.


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    Media Thread

    The Rules

    FIND Rebecca WATTS

    Avon and Somerset Constabulary

    Rebecca Watts Case Map credit to skibaboo

    https://twitter.com/ITVWCBeckyTrial

    https://twitter.com/rupertevelyn?ref...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

    https://twitter.com/HeartWestNews?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    https://twitter.com/elliepitttv

    https://twitter.com/SiobhanRobbins

    https://twitter.com/clairehayhurst?r...Ctwgr%5Eauthor
    Last edited by Coldpizza; 11-01-2015 at 09:32 AM.

  2. #2
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    UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, England, 19 February 2015 **ARRESTS**#12


    Link


    Please continue here for Becky
    Last edited by Coldpizza; 11-01-2015 at 09:26 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColourPurple View Post
    I think the kidnap plot is an excuse dreamed up after she died, to give a "nicer" reason for what happened than what really did happen. He's admitting to killing her but in a way that he can argue had good intentions...to help his mother and get Becky to appreciate life. To most people the kidnap scare plot is bad enough, yet he claims SH once mentioned a similar plot from her childhood so maybe to them it seemed feasible to them at a time when they needed to come up with a possible motive quickly.
    I still can't understand why he didn't say there was a quarrel which escalated and he lost control. We've been told that Becky could be rude, so it could have been a plausible story.

    Thinking about the cheque. I wonder if he could have taken it from her and made some sort of demand, saying "You won't get this cheque back unless you ... "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tortoise View Post
    not sure which bit is confusing? just to make it clearer, I think he wouldn't carry a body wrapped in a duvet from the car into the house in daylight. I think he would have put Becky in the case while still in the boot, and then move the case in to the house.
    Sorry, I'll try again.

    He wouldn't risk carrying a body from the car into CML, in broad daylight, unless it was in a suitcase. He would have put the body into a suitcase whilst still in the boot of the car once he had got to CML. At that point he gets a trolley and wheels the suitcase into CML. I think that's what you are saying.

    My badly worded question was, why wouldn't he risk carrying a body wrapped in a duvet, in broad daylight, into CML when it was fine to carry a body wrapped in a duvet, in broad daylight, from the house to the car in CH? This might already have been answered by someone posting a pic of CML upthread. It's very open and exposed outside CML.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigi-G View Post
    I think it's started somewhere in the doc's. That in order for the photos to be taken. The ones that were shown in Court. The Police say that 'while it's been made to look like the actual crime scene photos. Because items were moved in the search if the household. That not all the items were placed back in their original setting. But was done to replicate as much as possible the scenes of crime as per first examination'
    I don't think that's correct. The photos are from when NM/SH were arrested. The statement about items having been put back in the house to replicate the scene of the crime is to do with when the jury visited the house during the trial.

    You can tell the photo of the bath is from before the forensic investigations happened because it hasn't been ripped out.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tortoise View Post
    re SH comment about the wind causing the door to slam -

    to me it is absolute proof that her story is a complete fabrication [ETA a fabrication that started when AG came home], I haven't explained myself very well on this so I will try to do so now.

    She said to Anjie, she had heard BW stomping down and slamming the door. That is her justification for thinking BW left in a mood.

    BUT, she also says to Anjie, that she had considered if it was the wind.

    It's to do with making a judgement on what is happening as you hear it happening. For instance I hear one of my kids stomping into the kitchen and pulling a saucepan out of a cupboard making a clattering sound against the other pans in the cupboard. I assume they are doing it, I have a reason to assume it because I heard them stomping in before I heard the clattering noises. I don't then think at any stage either after the noise or during the noise that it could just be the saucepans toppling over in the cupboard and the kids have nothing to do with the making of the sound I heard.

    SH is justifying to Anjie and the police why she thought it was BW leaving in a mood. She heard the moody stomping. Adding in that she thought 'was that the wind?' is just to make it seem as if she had stopped to consider at the time 'what else could I be hearing?' But you don't think 'is it something else?' if you have a sound reason for making your former judgement.

    ETA - It's like me explaining to someone later on. I thought 'is that the saucepans falling over because I haven't put them away carefully?, but then I thought - no it couldn't have been because I heard the kids going in there and pulling them out of the cupboard'
    just bringing this forward because I made a couple of edits after

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tortoise View Post
    re SH comment about the wind causing the door to slam -

    to me it is absolute proof that her story is a complete fabrication, I haven't explained myself very well on this so I will try to do so now.

    She said to Anjie, she had heard BW stomping down and slamming the door. That is her justification for thinking BW left in a mood.

    BUT, she also says to Anjie, that she had considered if it was the wind.

    It's to do with making a judgement on what is happening as you hear it happening. For instance I hear one of my kids stomping into the kitchen and pulling a saucepan out of a cupboard making a clattering sound against the other pans in the cupboard. I assume they are doing it, I have a reason to assume it because I heard them stomping in before I heard the clattering noises. I don't then think at any stage either after the noise or during the noise that it could just be the saucepans toppling over in the cupboard and they have nothing to do with the making of the sound I heard.

    SH is justifying to Anjie and the police why she thought it was BW leaving in a mood. She heard the moody stomping. Adding in that she thought 'was that the wind?' is just to make it seem as if she had stopped to consider at the time 'what else could I be hearing?' But you don't think was it something else if you had a sound reason for making your former judgement.

    ETA - It's like me explaining to someone later on. I thought 'is that the saucepans falling over because I haven't put them away carefully?, but then I thought - no it couldn't have been because I heard the kids going in there and pulling them out of the cupboard'
    Adding more to this, wouldn't SH after returning to the lounge room ask NM about Becky leaving, did he also hear or even see her leave? (He did make the mistake of saying he heard the door slam while in the kitchen with SH but retracted it later.)

    No one checked until LO came round so SH wasn't positive Becky left earlier because she went up to her room or did she assume Becky quietly returned? And if Becky's boyfriend hadn't come round, would anyone have checked Becky's room? Would the conversation even be brought up where Becky was? Could NM have hoped no one would ask or check, and they could leave by 7pm without saying anything?

    (I'm trying to look at this as SH not knowing what happened.)



    Edit: watching first interview again and SH says a lot later on AG asked if Becky had gone out? Was this when LO turned up I wonder or earlier?
    Last edited by PrimeSuspect; 11-01-2015 at 11:21 AM. Reason: question

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clio View Post
    Sorry, I'll try again.

    He wouldn't risk carrying a body from the car into CML, in broad daylight, unless it was in a suitcase. He would have put the body into a suitcase whilst still in the boot of the car once he had got to CML. At that point he gets a trolley and wheels the suitcase into CML. I think that's what you are saying.

    My badly worded question was, why wouldn't he risk carrying a body wrapped in a duvet, in broad daylight, into CML when it was fine to carry a body wrapped in a duvet, in broad daylight, from the house to the car in CH? This might already have been answered by someone posting a pic of CML upthread. It's very open and exposed outside CML.
    Yes that is what I think, CH was protected from view to a greater extent by hedges, and with the boot being right up near the front door.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherwell View Post
    I still can't understand why he didn't say there was a quarrel which escalated and he lost control. We've been told that Becky could be rude, so it could have been a plausible story.

    Thinking about the cheque. I wonder if he could have taken it from her and made some sort of demand, saying "You won't get this cheque back unless you ... "
    Maybe, he hoards cheques too. :/

    Edit: NM could have made that excuse but maybe he didn't because it's true and SH was part of it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimeSuspect View Post
    Adding more to this, wouldn't SH after returning to the lounge room ask NM about Becky leaving, did he also hear or even see her leave? (He did make the mistake of saying he heard the door slam while in the kitchen with SH but retracted it later.)

    No one checked until LO came round so SH wasn't positive Becky left earlier because she went up to her room or did she assume Becky quietly returned? And if Becky's boyfriend hadn't come round, would anyone have checked Becky's room? Would the conversation even be brought up where Becky was? Could NM have hoped no one would ask or check, and they could leave by 7pm without saying anything?

    (I'm trying to look at this as SH not knowing what happened.)

    I think normally one would say something like that - was that you at the door or did Becky go out? But remember on that day they said they were together in the kitchen, so it is hard to retrospectively add in details of saying that to someone if you haven't already said that's what you did do.

    I cannot accept she is innocent now at all. She lied about NM being with her for their first version and she lied about thinking it was the wind, both lies to Anjie on the day of Becky's death. This is not finding out during the dismemberment with the blocked toilet and all that other c**p about buying clingfilm to sort out the house.

    Another thing I think is strange is that in her interview SH says 'Anjie asked a lot later on, at about 3pm?, if Becky had gone out'. Now I think normally if you had been in someone's company for over 2 hours you would have told them already - 'btw, Becky went out without saying anything when we got here, was she in a mood this morning?'. not conclusive but just odd.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Clio View Post
    I don't think that's correct. The photos are from when NM/SH were arrested. The statement about items having been put back in the house to replicate the scene of the crime is to do with when the jury visited the house during the trial.

    You can tell the photo of the bath is from before the forensic investigations happened because it hasn't been ripped out.
    Ahh I must of misunderstood. Ty Clio. My apologies. .. my head is spinning lol

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimeSuspect View Post
    NM could have made that excuse but maybe he didn't because it's true and SH was part of it.
    I think it could easily be true in its simplest form, in which case he could have called the emergency services as soon as it had happened and avoided an awful lot of distress for everyone. He could still have claimed sole responsibility for a tragic accident.

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    I don't know how to quote from the last thread so ...

    Re wind - I wondered if Shauna was thinking not was that the wind making a door bang on its own but maybe if she's telling the truth - she indeed thought she heard becky stomp downstairs and then maybe it was the wind making the door slam as opposed to Becky purposefully slamming it.
    If my daughter has her window open it always sounds like she's slamming her door ...

    Re the 100 cheque - I think Nathan took it in an act of passive aggression ... just spite, just so Becky couldn't cash/bank it. I dont believe it was taken as a bargaining tool just to cause annoyance to Becky.

    Re Nathan's story - IF his story isn't true then I just can't work out why. I dont really believe at this point that the motive was sexual and the reason I think some are still thinking it was is because that's what we were initially lead to believe and first impression can last.

    I do think that it's possible that a row broke out and he lost control and Becky ended up dead. But why if that were true make up the kidnap plan? Nathan could still have said Shauna was outside not seeing or hearing anything and he then panicked and put her in the boot etc I don't think it makes him look any better or worse in anyone's eyes in fact, the kidnap story makes it worse! If they'd been bickering and he accidently killed her then panicked and disposed of her body it's not as bad as going there with a plan to kidnap her which at some point you might be expected to cause her some harm if not kill her ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tortoise View Post
    I think normally one would say something like that - was that you at the door or did Becky go out? But remember on that day they said they were together in the kitchen, so it is hard to retrospectively add in details of saying that to someone if you haven't already said that's what you did do.

    I cannot accept she is innocent now at all. She lied about NM being with her for their first version and she lied about thinking it was the wind, both lies to Anjie on the day of Becky's death. This is not finding out during the dismemberment with the blocked toilet and all that other c**p about buying clingfilm to sort out the house.

    Another thing I think is strange is that in her interview SH says 'Anjie asked a lot later on, at about 3pm?, if Becky had gone out'. Now I think normally if you had been in someone's company for over 2 hours you would have told them already - 'btw, Becky went out without saying anything when we got here, was she in a mood this morning?'. not conclusive but just odd.
    It is very odd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clio View Post
    Sorry, I'll try again.

    He wouldn't risk carrying a body from the car into CML, in broad daylight, unless it was in a suitcase. He would have put the body into a suitcase whilst still in the boot of the car once he had got to CML. At that point he gets a trolley and wheels the suitcase into CML. I think that's what you are saying.

    My badly worded question was, why wouldn't he risk carrying a body wrapped in a duvet, in broad daylight, into CML when it was fine to carry a body wrapped in a duvet, in broad daylight, from the house to the car in CH? This might already have been answered by someone posting a pic of CML upthread. It's very open and exposed outside CML.
    It is more open at CML than Crown Hill. However, there are only a handful of houses there - I dont think its a busy residential area.
    So, NM opens the front door at CML, then goes back to boot to collect body, already wrapped in duvet cover. He could also have got another kind of cover from the house to put over the duvet cover partially - bin liner, something black ?
    It is a matter of yards, could be done in seconds. I know its a risk, but so is the car sitting outside Crown Hill with a body in the boot for the whole day.

    And, as someone said on the previous thread, possibly both NM and SH returned to CML during that 1.5 hours ( if they did of course ) because to leave SH at the house, might look odd, later on, when police are checking and their evidence says Becky departed the house, and then it is known that NM departed soon after.
    Also, SH could act as more of a screen block if NM is carrying the body inside.

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