Did Raven know Janet was pregnant?

How do we know if Raven knew about Janet being pregnant? Didn't it come as a surprise to everyone?

radar said:

How do we know if Raven knew about Janet being pregnant? Didn't it come as a surprise to everyone?

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The only reason I suspect that Raven did in fact know that Janet was pregnant is that it not standard for the ME to perform a pregnancy test. So, unless RAVEN gave them some reason to suspect that she was pregnant ... no one would have ever known that she was.

radar said:

How do we know if Raven knew about Janet being pregnant? Didn't it come as a surprise to everyone?

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It came across as a surprise to us sleuthers here. But was raven surprised? Was his family? We don't know.

I'm going on the fact that GM mentioned above and also the statistic about the number one cause of death of pregnant women is murder and the way raven handled himself at the courthouse. If he had just found out that week that his wife was carrying his child when she was murdered, he certainly didn't seem that broken up about it.

BTW Radar, welcome to WS and the forum. Glad to have your input here.

I don't know if it would be routine to check a woman's uterus during an autopsy, but the uterus does change color once a woman becomes pregnant (due to increased blood flow). But like I said, I wouldn't think that is routine to check. I agree with GM that there was probably an existing reason for the medical examiner to test Janet.

Maybe they were checking to make sure she wasn't raped before being killed? And that is how they came across the fact that she was pregnant? They said there was HCG present (at least I think I read that someone posted that here at WS) in her blood...are you sure they don't test a woman of childbearing age's blood for pregnancy along with the other standard tests? (whatever they are)

dbmthur said:

Maybe they were checking to make sure she wasn't raped before being killed? And that is how they came across the fact that she was pregnant? They said there was HCG present (at least I think I read that someone posted that here at WS) in her blood...are you sure they don't test a woman of childbearing age's blood for pregnancy along with the other standard tests? (whatever they are)

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We need a ME to post here what is standard and what isn't. Anyone know of one?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Raven Says . . . (some good links in this old post)

From what we know:

1) Janet's uterus was noted as "unremarkable".

2) The endometrium was thickened.

3) Raven mentioned her being in her normal "bad cramps" position.

According to the information I've found, by week 4 of pregnancy, you are just missing your menstrual period. By week 6 of pregnancy, a doctor can notice a change in the size of the uterus. If Janet's endometrium was thickened, then she was very near, at, or past her due date for her period for that month. So my guess is that she was at least four weeks pregnant but not yet six since her uterus was not noted as being enlarged.

What I find interesting is this:

WebMD with AOL Health - Pregnancy Week by Week - First Month

Week 4

You're probably expecting your period this week, and if it doesn't occur it might be one of the first signs that you're pregnant. (My note: Many sexually active women take a home pregnancy test the day after missing their period.)

WebMD with AOL Health - Pregnancy Week by Week - Second Month

Week 5

Still no big changes to notice in yourself, although you might suspect by now that you're pregnant.

Raven's claim that she was in her normal position for when she experienced bad cramps sounds to me like Raven at least knew that it was time for Janet to be having her period. Can we assume that he knew that she was pregnant? Not at all. BUT - he mentioned "bad cramps" as if he knew that she was due for her period, the lining of her uterus was indeed thickened, she was probably at the stage of pregnancy when most women usually take a home pregnancy test, and she mysteriously ended up dead. How odd that Raven mentioned cramps and that he found Janet on her knees - what are the chances that a murderer went into that home, killed Janet, and she somehow just happened to end up on her knees in the exact same position that she normally took for menstrual cramps so close to the very time that she actually should have been having her period - leading Raven to believe that she was alive & suffering cramps when she was actually dead & pregnant? If he had "found" her on her knees like that two weeks earlier or two weeks later, surely he would have found it odd since she wasn't due for her period at those times. (And keep in mind that the position in which Raven claims to have found Janet was: 1) only seen by him, and 2) a very unusual position for a deceased person.) It all just seems a little too convenient to me - mentioning cramps when she was pregnant; mentioning shooting when she was stabbed, mentioning that she was "upstairs hurt" when she was dead, etc.

IMO, Raven said these things to separate himself from knowledge of the crime. And his mention of cramps leads me to believe that he was trying to separate himself from the motive.

golfmom said:

The only reason I suspect that Raven did in fact know that Janet was pregnant is that it not standard for the ME to perform a pregnancy test. So, unless RAVEN gave them some reason to suspect that she was pregnant ... no one would have ever known that she was.

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Didn't Raven say that Janet was doubled over with cramps? Why would the ME do a pregnancy test unless it is routine? Don't they just do some kind of a blood test to find out?

radar said:

How do we know if Raven knew about Janet being pregnant? Didn't it come as a surprise to everyone?

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It did come as a suprise to family members. However, when a woman is in her fourth or fifth week of pregnancy, it is not uncommon for family to be unaware. Many people wait until the first trimester is over to share the news since most miscarriages happen in the first trimester. A miscarriage is very traumatic, and that trauma is magnified if you also have to go around telling everyone else that you lost your baby. So many people choose to wait.

Also, if a baby is conceived in a less than desirable situation, many people don't share that news right away until some decisions are made. If finances are awful or two people are fighting over whether or not they're in a position to have another child, they won't typically run all over town with the news because it is a source of stress and conflict.

So whether or not it came as a shock to family members doesn't really matter. Janet was most likely at the stage of pregnancy during which she would have discovered that pregnancy. And even if she chose not to share that information with other family members, surely she would have informed Raven. ETA: Even if Janet and Raven were excited about this pregnancy, given her past tubal pregnancy, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they had chosen to wait to tell people.

radar said:

Didn't Raven say that Janet was doubled over with cramps?

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And it's a good thing for the person that wanted Janet dead that she happened to end up in her "bad cramps position" at the very time that she was due for her period. If the murderer had struck at any other time or if Janet had landed in any other position, then Raven might have noticed something was wrong, and had time to call 911 before she died.

I don't mean anything negative towards you, radar. Your point is certainly valid. I just want to illustrate the amazing coincidences that exist if Raven is not the perpetrator.

radar said:

Didn't Raven say that Janet was doubled over with cramps? Why would the ME do a pregnancy test unless it is routine?

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It could be that Raven mentioning cramps sent up a red flag for investigators. I'm sure they've seen their share of perps that use certain language to try to separate themselves from the crime.

I think you posters put too much emphasis on Raven knowing when his wife's period is due. Come on, this guy is into sports, cars, etc. I am sure that is one of the last things on his mind.

Radar, he was a "normal" guy wasn't he ? Then he'd have sex on the mind, too !!They were a young married couple !

Jess said:

Radar, he was a "normal" guy wasn't he ? Then he'd have sex on the mind, too !!They were a young married couple !

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Sex on the mind sure, but didn't he also have affairs? Like I said he had a lot of things on his mind and his wife's period would be one of the last.

It'll be interesting to see if Janet shared the information of her pregnancy with friends locally, especially in light of their obvious concern for her safety.

radar said:

I think you posters put too much emphasis on Raven knowing when his wife's period is due. Come on, this guy is into sports, cars, etc. I am sure that is one of the last things on his mind.

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Most men know when their wife has her period. They were married almost five years. I'm as sure as I can be that Raven knew when Janet was expecting her period.

radar said:

Sex on the mind sure, but didn't he also have affairs? Like I said he had a lot of things on his mind and his wife's period would be one of the last.

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Jess' point is that many people do not have sex during that time of the month. For that reason alone, there is a good likelihood that Raven knew when Janet did or didn't have her period because they were obviously a sexually active couple. He'd most likely know when it was or wasn't a good time for sex.

golfmom said:

It'll be interesting to see if Janet shared the information of her pregnancy with friends locally, especially in light of their obvious concern for her safety.

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I am not sure if Janet told her family, or even Raven about the pregnancy, but I do know that she did tell one or two of her closest friends.

OffRoad said:

I am not sure if Janet told her family, or even Raven about the pregnancy, but I do know that she did tell one or two of her closest friends.

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Interesting OR, thank you so much for letting us know that. So at the very least this clears up if Janet knew she was pregnant. Obviously she did if she told at the very least one friend. I imagine that Janet took a home pregnancy test to confirm that she was in fact pregnant. I seem to remember that they are accurate up to the first day of your missed period.

So, did Raven clue LE into Janet's pregnancy or did her friend????? hmmmm