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  1. #1096
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    Nurmi, Sky Hughes, the Forged Letters, and "the Snake" Comment

    Does anyone know the details and the chronology of what Nurmi told Sky Hughes about the (totally fake) letters in which "Travis" (in fact Jodi) "confesses" to having a sexual attraction to children, and in particular to one of the Hughes's sons? If I recall correctly (and I probably don't):

    • Long before trial, Nurmi told Sky what the letters said and told her that they had been authenticated. I assume this was more of him attempting to be clever by equating the State's "inability to disprove" (since the handwriting in the scanned then e-mailed copies, or whatever they were, could not be officially tested) with "proof of authenticity."

    • Sky took it for granted that Nurmi was being straight with her, because surely an officer of the court wouldn't lie to a potential (and important) witness. Nurmi has a record of her saying or writing something to him along the lines of "I knew Travis had some psychological problems but I never realized they were so severe."

    • At some point after Sky made that comment to Nurmi, she and Chris were told (probably by Juan?) that the letters were forgeries, that Nurmi knew they were forgeries, and that Nurmi planned to use Sky's comment as part of Jodi's defense. Chris, then, refers to Nurmi as a "snake," but I don't know where or to whom. (ETA: Do we know when Sky found out that Nurmi was planning to use her "abuse" allegations – referring solely and specifically to Travis being a flirt, a Mormon Lothario, heartbreaker, time-waster, etc – as corroborating evidence that Travis was physically abusive? And why was that never explicitly dealt with in trial? It seems like it should only have taken a couple of minutes. "Ma'am, when you referred to Mr. Alexander as being abusive to women, did you mean physically, emotionally, psychologically, or sexually abusive? No. Then please tell the Court what you did mean. I meant that he was a flirt, that he was not ready to make a commitment despite perhaps allowing women to believe that he was, and that young Mormon women who were looking for a man they could marry in a Temple and start building a family with – marriage and family being central tenets of our faith – should not get involved with him. That is ALL I meant. So Ma'am, you're saying Mr. Alexander could be inconsiderate and deceptive, but that you never saw any evidence that he was physically, emotionally, psychologically, or sexually abusive? That is correct.")

    • All this comes up early on in a hearing to determine, possibly, the extent to which Chris and Sky were in some way, shape, or form in cahoots with the prosecution, and to what extent they could be treated as hostile witnesses for the defense. Of course I may be completely wrong.

    • Has anyone read Chris and Sky's book? Does it talk about this? Do we know why neither of them testified for either side in any part of the main trial?

    I have another question about the forged letters. I can understand why it's problematic to attempt to do handwriting analysis on electronic copies, but what about a forensic linguistic analysis? Both Travis and Jodi wrote badly, but they wrote badly in very, very different ways. Jodi is nowhere near as smart as she thinks she is, of course, she certainly lacks the linguistic sophistication to know what the myriad "tells" a forensic linguist looks for are, and both she and Travis left copious writings that the forged letters could be compared to. Does anyone know if this was done?

    Thanks for any input.
    Last edited by T-4-2; 11-21-2015 at 05:16 PM.

  2. #1097
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-4-2 View Post
    Does anyone know the details and the chronology of what Nurmi told Sky Hughes about the (totally fake) letters in which "Travis" (in fact Jodi) "confesses" to having a sexual attraction to children, and in particular to one of the Hughes's sons? If I recall correctly (and I probably don't):

    Long before trial, Nurmi told Sky what the letters said and told her that they had been authenticated. I assume this was more of him attempting to be clever by equating the State's "inability to disprove" (since the handwriting in the scanned then e-mailed copies, or whatever they were, could not be officially tested) with "proof of authenticity."

    Sky took it for granted that Nurmi was being straight with her, because surely an officer of the court wouldn't lie to a potential (and important) witness. Nurmi has a record of her saying or writing something to him along the lines of "I knew Travis had some psychological problems but I never realized they were so severe."

    At some point after Sky made that comment to Nurmi, she and Chris were told (probably by Juan?) that the letters were forgeries, that Nurmi knew they were forgeries, and that Nurmi planned to use Sky's comment as part of Jodi's defense. Chris, then, refers to Nurmi as a "snake," but I don't know where or to whom.

    All this comes up early on in a hearing to determine, possibly, the extent to which Chris and Sky were in some way, shape, or form in cahoots with the prosecution, and to what extent they could be treated as hostile witnesses for the defense. Of course I may be completely wrong.

    Has anyone read Chris and Sky's book? Does it talk about this? Do we know why neither of them testified for either side in any part of the main trial?

    I have another question about the forged letters. I can understand why it's problematic to attempt to do handwriting analysis on electronic copies, but what about a forensic linguistic analysis? Both Travis and Jodi wrote badly, but they wrote badly in very, very different ways. Jodi is nowhere near as smart as she thinks she is, of course, she certainly lacks the linguistic sophistication to know what the myriad "tells" a forensic linguist looks for are, and both she and Travis left copious writings that the forged letters could be compared to. Does anyone know if this was done?

    Thanks for any input.
    I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that Shanna Hogan said in her book that Jodi cut words and phrases from Travis's journal, created the pedophiles letters and then Xeroxed them. That's why there were no originals. I'll try and dig through her book and find exactly what she said.



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    We may have all come on different ships, but we're in the same boat now ~ Martin Luther King Jr.

  3. #1098
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-4-2 View Post
    Does anyone know the details and the chronology of what Nurmi told Sky Hughes about the (totally fake) letters in which "Travis" (in fact Jodi) "confesses" to having a sexual attraction to children, and in particular to one of the Hughes's sons? If I recall correctly (and I probably don't):

    • Long before trial, Nurmi told Sky what the letters said and told her that they had been authenticated. I assume this was more of him attempting to be clever by equating the State's "inability to disprove" (since the handwriting in the scanned then e-mailed copies, or whatever they were, could not be officially tested) with "proof of authenticity."

    • Sky took it for granted that Nurmi was being straight with her, because surely an officer of the court wouldn't lie to a potential (and important) witness. Nurmi has a record of her saying or writing something to him along the lines of "I knew Travis had some psychological problems but I never realized they were so severe."

    • At some point after Sky made that comment to Nurmi, she and Chris were told (probably by Juan?) that the letters were forgeries, that Nurmi knew they were forgeries, and that Nurmi planned to use Sky's comment as part of Jodi's defense. Chris, then, refers to Nurmi as a "snake," but I don't know where or to whom.

    • All this comes up early on in a hearing to determine, possibly, the extent to which Chris and Sky were in some way, shape, or form in cahoots with the prosecution, and to what extent they could be treated as hostile witnesses for the defense. Of course I may be completely wrong.

    • Has anyone read Chris and Sky's book? Does it talk about this? Do we know why neither of them testified for either side in any part of the main trial?

    I have another question about the forged letters. I can understand why it's problematic to attempt to do handwriting analysis on electronic copies, but what about a forensic linguistic analysis? Both Travis and Jodi wrote badly, but they wrote badly in very, very different ways. Jodi is nowhere near as smart as she thinks she is, of course, she certainly lacks the linguistic sophistication to know what the myriad "tells" a forensic linguist looks for are, and both she and Travis left copious writings that the forged letters could be compared to. Does anyone know if this was done?

    Thanks for any input.
    Unfortunately my first link isn't allowed here... it's from "just da truth" so do a google search for that and forged letters, her article should come up and in it she links to this one:

    http://www.courtchatter.com/#!What-J...f21e26bab6a136

    Hope this helps.

  4. #1099
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    Quote Originally Posted by G&AMom View Post
    I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that Shanna Hogan said in her book that Jodi cut words and phrases from Travis's journal, created the pedophiles letters and then Xeroxed them. That's why there were no originals. I'll try and dig through her book and find exactly what she said.
    I thought I'd heard something like that as well... but then the news (to me at least) about Jodi's practice 3x5 cards makes it sound like she actually wrote the pedo letters as opposed to them being cut-and-paste. Maybe a bit of both? Using some words cut from his journals and writing in the necessary filler herself?

  5. #1100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val1 View Post
    Unfortunately my first link isn't allowed here... it's from "just da truth" so do a google search for that and forged letters, her article should come up and in it she links to this one:

    http://www.courtchatter.com/#!What-J...f21e26bab6a136

    Hope this helps.
    Thanks! (And here I thought I was going to get a ton of Thanksgiving prep work done today... what is it about this case?)

  6. #1101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frigga View Post
    That Lawrence Kirk Nurmi! I don't know weather I should laugh, cry, seek revenge or applaud him.

    Thanks to everyone for posting on his book and commenting. It feels like old times only better- the killer is in prison for life this time!
    Maybe Nurmi should hit up Samuels for a PTSD diagnosis (if Samuels is still licensed), so that his (Nurmi's) insurance will cover some serious therapy (maybe in-patient?), meds, and a long break from work. Of course it would be more convenient for Nurmi to go to DeMarte (since they're both in Phoenix and the rock Samuels crawled out from under is back East somewhere IIRC), but, well, awkward.

  7. #1102
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-4-2 View Post
    I thought I'd heard something like that as well... but then the news (to me at least) about Jodi's practice 3x5 cards makes it sound like she actually wrote the pedo letters as opposed to them being cut-and-paste. Maybe a bit of both? Using some words cut from his journals and writing in the necessary filler herself?
    I went back and looked at her book and it says something to the effect that handwriting experts (I assume for the state) had determined that someone had used samples of Travis's writings, possibly his journals, to create the letters. Possibly the journals had been cut up. Hogan doesn't say anything further than that, so we don't really know what exactly this "someone" did. Did they cut and paste? Trace individual words? Or like you suggest, a bit of both.
    We may have all come on different ships, but we're in the same boat now ~ Martin Luther King Jr.

  8. #1103
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    Interview with Nurmi on his book.

    http://www.12news.com/story/news/loc...rias/76133000/

  9. #1104
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyTinkieGirl View Post
    OK, please, no offense to anyone here, butWTF??? He's really gone off the deep end. He DEFINITELY needs some sort of intervention....if not mental, but for fashion. Paging Heidi Klum!! Is that =psupposed to be dorky **** with some blingity bling around his neck?? One of his "funny hats", I presume?
    LOL. I think being with Jodi drove him bat crazy. I have a feeling that if Travis had to publish a book about his time with Jodi, he'd name it the same thing.
    "If Jodi's lips are moving...if her pen is moving...then she lie, lie, lies!"

  10. #1105
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    Please continue the books discussions here:
    Book released by Defense Attorney, Nov 2015 #2

    Non-book discussions on- topic here:
    Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

    As always, off-topic posts go in the Sidebar threads.

    Link to forum index: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?513-Travis-Alexander-Trial-The-State-vs-Jodi-Arias



    This thread will close in 15 minutes.
    Last edited by KateB; 11-22-2015 at 10:51 AM.


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