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  1. #1
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    Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #66~ the appeal~

    http://www.news.com.au/world/africa/...-1227580548021

    The unanswered questions about the release of Oscar Pistorius from jail to home detention
    OCTOBER 23, 2015

    According to legal expert Dr Llewellyn Curlewis, a criminal barrister and former president of the South African Law Society, there is no case of “rock star” treatment for the one-time national sporting hero. In fact, his sentence is being served to the letter of the law...

    ... Dr Curlewis believes the appeal will fail.“The appeal judges have to rule that the decision was palpably wrong,” he said. “This is a very politically sensitive case and the appeal judges come from the same background as Judge Masipa. There is no new evidence produced. It is all done by going through the evidence presented in the trial. They will have already done their reading. The decision will only take a few hours, and I think they will give her the benefit of the doubt...

    Previous thread:
    Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #65 ~ the appeal~

    Link to Oscar Pistorius Forum Index
    Last edited by Coldpizza; 11-12-2015 at 08:09 AM.

  2. #2
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    For those who are new to this forum, here's a list of all OP's indiscretions, misdemeanours, confrontations etc. that have been published over the years. It's interesting to note the escalation from the 2012 Olympics onwards.

    Oscar is a Danger to Society

    2002 At 15 he was allowed to drive Carl’s car illegally around Pretoria

    circa 2003 Rumours reached some teachers that he had a violent temper – that sometimes he ‘flipped’, as one of them put it – and that he threatened the younger boys

    May 2004 Bought his first car when he was 17, too young for a driver’s licence

    Feb 14, 2006 Nodded off at the wheel after setting off for Vicky Miles’ house, 400 miles from his, at 3am after they had a blistering row. One side of his vehicle was completely destroyed.

    2008 Oscar’s ex-stylist, Francois Louw, witnessed a terrifying temper tantrum whilst they worked together to create a fragrance. When there was an issue when delivering the finished products, Oscar screamed, swore, kicked the garage door, went inside and screamed even louder, swearing constantly. He also threatened Louw’s family.

    July 2008 Just before the Beijing Olympics he swore at a South African reporter for quoting an athletics coach who said Oscar wasn’t yet ready to run a relay. “I never realised the ‘f’ and ‘p’ words could be used in so many different ways in such quick succession,” the journalist said.

    Prior to Sept 6, 2008 At the pre-games training camp for the Beijing Paralympics he phoned David O’Sullivan and raged about what he perceived to be an inadequate training kit. His fury caught O’Sullivan by surprise. Oscar “knew he couldn’t be ignored and his anger would ensure his demands were met. He wanted to go on the air and complain,” said O’Sullivan, who put him on his radio show.

    Feb 21, 2009 Crashed his boat into a relatively new pier on the Vaal River which shattered his face and nearly cost him his life. He lied when he said that 1) the pier was submerged; 2) it happened at sunset (it was after 10pm); and 3) he hadn’t been drinking. (He was seen drinking in a river pub and 3 empty bottles of liquor were found on his boat. He was never breath tested).

    Feb 21, 2009 A further individual had an altercation with Oscar on the river that same evening which occurred “long” after sunset but before the boating accident took place.

    9 March 2009 Stopped Beeld from taking pictures of him on the N4 highway in Pretoria, where a friend of his had been involved in an accident. A woman died at the scene of the accident after walking in front of Anneke Kruger's oncoming car. Kruger works for In/sight, the company which manages OP's business interests. A bystander who asked OP why the photographer couldn't take photographs, was told: "Oom, I am Oscar Pistorius."

    Sept 12, 2009 Cassidy Taylor-Memmory charged Oscar with assault when he punched a door so hard that a piece broke and fell on her leg following an argument with his then girlfriend, Melissa Rom.

    Sept 6, 2011 Stormed out of a BBC radio interview after taking exception to a question about his fight to take part in non-disabled athletics.

    Oct 2011
    At a Kings of Leon concert he was very drunk and stumbled into a group of people. Later, two women were practically shoved off their feet by an aggressive Oscar. One told him his behaviour was rude and unacceptable. He was extremely abusive to the two women, calling them “f***ing lesbians”. One of the women said “What is your problem?” to which he replied, “I’m drunk, what’s yours?”

    May 2012 Mothers had to remove their children from the gym because of his continual swearing. He was known to rant and rave as he struggled to complete the simplest of routines, would stalk out in a fury, returning only when his anger had expired.

    June/July, 2012 Attended a shooting range with friends, including Francois Hougaard, and fired at a watermelon which exploded. He said,” It’s a lot softer than brain, but f***, it feels like a zombie stopper.”

    July/Aug 2012 Temper tantrum at the London Paralympics when he lost a race to Brazilian, Alan Oliveira whom he wrongly accused of using illegal blades. Following his outburst on the track, he was taken to an underground room where he went on a 2 hour rampage, shouting, screaming, crying, hitting tables, kicking walls and throwing furniture around. Each time Paralympic chiefs went into the room to try and calm him down, they saw a fresh escalation of his hysterical reaction. Oliviera said, "He saw me at the Olympic village and refused to talk to me. He told the media that he apologised to me but that never happened. He apologised to the media but never to me."

    July/Aug 2012 Room-mate, Arnu Fourie changed rooms to get away from Oscar’s constant screaming on the phone.

    Sept 2012 Enraged by jealousy, Oscar confronted and swore at Quinton van der Burgh at the Kyalami racetrack about his relationship with Sam Taylor. He said he would break his legs and f*** him up.

    Sept 2012 Started sending threatening SMSes to Van der Burgh

    Sept 30, 2012 Fired his gun through the sunroof of a car

    Nov 2012 Mark Batchelor, a friend of van der Burgh, got involved and he and Oscar exchanged threatening SMSes. Oscar threatened to break Batchelor’s legs.

    Nov 2012 Justin Divaris arranged a meeting with the Hawks to settle the dispute. Batchelor said Oscar turned up with a black eye and stitches in his head because he had been involved in a fight at a party the night before. Hitman, Mikey Schultz said, “He was so pissed he fell and cut his head. He was dancing with his gun”.

    Jan 2013 Tasha’s shooting incident

    Jan 2013 Turned up for filming at “It Gets Better” gay and lesbian youth campaign with a very angry looking black eye

    Feb 2013 Shot and killed Reeva

    Apr 2013 52 days after killing Reeva, Oscar turned up, uninvited, at a private party in Illovo, Johannesburg hosted by a businessman. Guests said he was drunk, knocking back one drink after the other, including tequila shots. He hit on Kesiah Frank, a beautiful blonde model who holds a law degree. He asked her to dance and flirted with her repeatedly until she made it clear she was not interested.

    Apr 6, 2013 Oscar was out partying with friends at the Kitchen Bar restaurant, throwing back shooters, and patted a friend’s girlfriend on the bottom. Patrons were shocked and thought it horribly insensitive to go out for drinks with friends so soon after Reeva's death.

    After leaving the Kitchen Bar he went across the road to the Buddha Ta cocktail lounge accompanied by Craig Lipschitz who was involved in a vicious brawl with former bouncer, Guil Yahav. Lipschitz is always accompanied by 4 bodyguards. Yahav was implicated in the vicious murder of another bouncer, Patrick Caetano who was hacked to death with a butcher’s knife at the Kyalami Business Park and was caught on CCTV.

    July 12 2014 Oscar attended The VIP Room nightclub with Guil Yahav who introduced him to Jared Mortimer (a friend of Marc Batchelor). Yahav had been involved in a vicious murder in 2002. Oscar was drunk and got into a brawl Mortimer.

    July 12 2014 The club’s bouncers were asked to remove Oscar after he then got into a confrontation with another man.

    Date unknown Berated his housekeeper Frank Chiziweni in front of an American TV crew. With the cameraman and sound-man looking on, he screamed 'What the f--- are you doing? Have I not told you a thousand f------ times to close that garage door? Are you f------ mad?’

    Date unknown His biographer Gianni Merlo said, "He could get very furious suddenly"

    Date unknown Was driving on the outskirts of a black township when a dog ran under his wheels. Its back was clearly broken. He stopped and got out of his car to find that the dog's owner had come out on to the street, shouting, cursing, gesticulating. What to do? Her grabbed his gun, shot the dog through the back of the head and drove off.

    Can you believe it ... I just added 2 more - 9 March 2009 and the very last entry. I just remembered the dog and while preparing my edit saw that sleuth-d remembered it too. Yes, it did happen.
    Last edited by JudgeJudi; 11-12-2015 at 08:47 AM. Reason: 2 further entries

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Val1 View Post
    This article highlights much of the trial fairly well(even if I think it's writers are a little too pro OP), if you want to give it a quick read. I believe some of the links from it might provide you with further answers, without having to watch all the trial footage which gets very tedious.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ralympian.html
    Wow , thanks , One thing so far , I hadn't read about the injuries first hand . It turns out that there is nothing saying that splinters were integral to any bullet wounds , in fact quite the opposite :

    ' there were bullet wounds ......etc......and there wereadditional injuries from splinters .....

    Pathologists have to be accurate with language . This language might be error, but it clearly separates bullet wounds on the one hand: splinter wounds elsewhere ... ..

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by lithgow1 View Post
    Re your list post JJ - thanks a lot and holy dooley! When it is all put down like that it certainly is a long list. I was also unaware that the temper tantrum after losing to the Brazilian guy lasted for two hours. Two hours! That is a long time to be in an uncontrollable rage.
    It's a massive list and goes to show just what a loose canon he was. The fact he could lose it so quickly helps to explain how he was 'able' to kill Reeva. He must have thought nothing could ever touch him and that he'd always be able to get out of any mess he created, just as he always had.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeJudi View Post
    For those who are new to this forum, here's a list of all OP's indiscretions, misdemeanours, confrontations etc. that have been published over the years. It's interesting to note the escalation from the 2012 Olympics onwards.

    Oscar is a Danger to Society

    2002 At 15 he was allowed to drive Carl’s car illegally around Pretoria

    circa 2003 Rumours reached some teachers that he had a violent temper – that sometimes he ‘flipped’, as one of them put it – and that he threatened the younger boys

    May 2004 Bought his first car when he was 17, too young for a driver’s licence

    Feb 14, 2006 Nodded off at the wheel after setting off for Vicky Miles’ house, 400 miles from his, at 3am after they had a blistering row. One side of his vehicle was completely destroyed.

    2008 Oscar’s ex-stylist, Francois Louw, witnessed a terrifying temper tantrum whilst they worked together to create a fragrance. When there was an issue when delivering the finished products, Oscar screamed, swore, kicked the garage door, went inside and screamed even louder, swearing constantly. He also threatened Louw’s family.

    July 2008 Just before the Beijing Olympics he swore at a South African reporter for quoting an athletics coach who said Oscar wasn’t yet ready to run a relay. “I never realised the ‘f’ and ‘p’ words could be used in so many different ways in such quick succession,” the journalist said.

    Prior to Sept 6, 2008 At the pre-games training camp for the Beijing Paralympics he phoned David O’Sullivan and raged about what he perceived to be an inadequate training kit. His fury caught O’Sullivan by surprise. Oscar “knew he couldn’t be ignored and his anger would ensure his demands were met. He wanted to go on the air and complain,” said O’Sullivan, who put him on his radio show.

    Sept 12, 2009 Cassidy Taylor-Memmory charged Oscar with assault when he punched a door so hard that a piece broke and fell on her leg following an argument with his then girlfriend, Melissa Rom.

    Feb 21, 2009 Crashed his boat into a relatively new pier on the Vaal River which shattered his face and nearly cost him his life. He lied when he said that 1) the pier was submerged; 2) it happened at sunset (it was after 10pm); and 3) he hadn’t been drinking. (He was seen drinking in a river pub and 3 empty bottles of liquor were found on his boat. He was never breath tested).

    Feb 21, 2009 A further individual had an altercation with Oscar on the river that same evening which occurred “long” after sunset but before the boating accident took place.

    Sept 6, 2011 Stormed out of a BBC radio interview after taking exception to a question about his fight to take part in non-disabled athletics.

    Oct 2011
    At a Kings of Leon concert he was very drunk and stumbled into a group of people. Later, two women were practically shoved off their feet by an aggressive Oscar. One told him his behaviour was rude and unacceptable. He was extremely abusive to the two women, calling them “f***ing lesbians”. One of the women said “What is your problem?” to which he replied, “I’m drunk, what’s yours?”

    May 2012 Mothers had to remove their children from the gym because of his continual swearing. He was known to rant and rave as he struggled to complete the simplest of routines, would stalk out in a fury, returning only when his anger had expired.

    June/July, 2012 Attended a shooting range with friends, including Francois Hougaard, and fired at a watermelon which exploded. He said,” It’s a lot softer than brain, but f***, it feels like a zombie stopper.”

    July/Aug 2012 Temper tantrum at the London Paralympics when he lost a race to Brazilian, Alan Oliveira whom he wrongly accused of using illegal blades. Following his outburst on the track, he was taken to an underground room where he went on a 2 hour rampage, shouting, screaming, crying, hitting tables, kicking walls and throwing furniture around. Each time Paralympic chiefs went into the room to try and calm him down, they saw a fresh escalation of his hysterical reaction. Oliviera said, "He saw me at the Olympic village and refused to talk to me. He told the media that he apologised to me but that never happened. He apologised to the media but never to me."

    July/Aug 2012 Room-mate, Arnu Fourie changed rooms to get away from Oscar’s constant screaming on the phone.

    Sept 2012 Enraged by jealousy, Oscar confronted and swore at Quinton van der Burgh at the Kyalami racetrack about his relationship with Sam Taylor. He said he would break his legs and f*** him up.

    Sept 2012 Started sending threatening SMSes to Van der Burgh

    Sept 30, 2012 Fired his gun through the sunroof of a car

    Nov 2012 Mark Batchelor, a friend of van der Burgh, got involved and he and Oscar exchanged threatening SMSes. Oscar threatened to break Batchelor’s legs.

    Nov 2012 Justin Divaris arranged a meeting with the Hawks to settle the dispute. Batchelor said Oscar turned up with a black eye and stitches in his head because he had been involved in a fight at a party the night before. Hitman, Mikey Schultz said, “He was so pissed he fell and cut his head. He was dancing with his gun”.

    Jan 2013 Tasha’s shooting incident

    Jan 2013 Turned up for filming at “It Gets Better” gay and lesbian youth campaign with a very angry looking black eye

    Feb 2013 Shot and killed Reeva

    Apr 2013 52 days after killing Reeva, Oscar turned up, uninvited, at a private party in Illovo, Johannesburg hosted by a businessman. Guests said he was drunk, knocking back one drink after the other, including tequila shots. He hit on Kesiah Frank, a beautiful blonde model who holds a law degree. He asked her to dance and flirted with her repeatedly until she made it clear she was not interested.

    Apr 6, 2013 Oscar was out partying with friends at the Kitchen Bar restaurant, throwing back shooters, and patted a friend’s girlfriend on the bottom. Patrons were shocked and thought it horribly insensitive to go out for drinks with friends so soon after Reeva's death.

    After leaving the Kitchen Bar he went across the road to the Buddha Ta cocktail lounge accompanied by Craig Lipschitz who was involved in a vicious brawl with former bouncer, Guil Yahav. Lipschitz is always accompanied by 4 bodyguards. Yahav was implicated in the vicious murder of another bouncer, Patrick Caetano who was hacked to death with a butcher’s knife at the Kyalami Business Park and was caught on CCTV.

    July 12 2014 Oscar attended The VIP Room nightclub with Guil Yahav who introduced him to Jared Mortimer (a friend of Marc Batchelor). Yahav had been involved in a vicious murder in 2002. Oscar was drunk and got into a brawl Mortimer.

    July 12 2014 The club’s bouncers were asked to remove Oscar after he then got into a confrontation with another man.

    Date unknown Berated his housekeeper Frank Chiziweni in front of an American TV crew. With the cameraman and sound-man looking on, he screamed 'What the f--- are you doing? Have I not told you a thousand f------ times to close that garage door? Are you f------ mad?’

    Date unknown His biographer Gianni Merlo said, "He could get very furious suddenly
    is the dog shooting incident just a vicious rumour?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by KateB View Post
    http://www.news.com.au/world/africa/...-1227580548021

    ... Dr Curlewis believes the appeal will fail.“The appeal judges have to rule that the decision was palpably wrong,” he said. “This is a very politically sensitive case and the appeal judges come from the same background as Judge Masipa. There is no new evidence produced. It is all done by going through the evidence presented in the trial. They will have already done their reading. The decision will only take a few hours, and I think they will give her the benefit of the doubt...

    Previous thread:
    Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #65 ~ the appeal~

    Link to Oscar Pistorius Forum Index
    RSBM and BIB Well he was wrong about that.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleuth-d- View Post
    is the dog shooting incident just a vicious rumour?
    Haha. That little indiscretion must have been accidentally left out! No matter who says he was being 'kind' killing the dog (that he'd run over) and putting it out of its misery - there is just no excuse as to why he didn't utter a word to the owner who was standing right there. If you shoot and kill someone's dog, wouldn't you even acknowledge it? He just drove off without a word. It's such a cold thing to do, given that he supposedly likes dogs and had his own.

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    Correct soozie. Refer back to my amended post up the page which Lithgow kindly asked to be carried over. Not only, but also ... an entry for 9 March 2009.

    He was so well protected by family, friends, the media and others that I'm certain there would be others that we're unaware of.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeJudi View Post
    Correct soozie. Refer back to my amended post up the page which Lithgow kindly asked to be carried over. Not only, but also ... an entry for 9 March 2009.

    He was so well protected by family, friends, the media and others that I'm certain there would be others that we're unaware of.
    I think his list of 'misdemeanours' is almost as long as the people he blamed at his trial!

  10. #10
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    From mrjitty (previous thread) RSBM

    But if the door was not locked - would he have come up with the locked door/breaking down the door idea so quickly?
    If you place yourself in his shoes and consider that you have been bashing the toilet door with a bat then shot your girlfriend, your awareness of the events is to the fore. You will know that there are tiles on the floor that fell when you struck the door frame and that would alert you to the marks on the door (if you hadn't already spotted them). How will you explain the scene? You have minutes to make something up. I don't think his problem was figuring what to say and do, he just messed it up (blood on bat). We think he made other mistakes too in staging the scene because he necessarily had to act in haste. If we're right, I wouldn't mind betting this part of the staging came late in his thinking, hence the blood.
    "O, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!" Sir Walter Scott


  11. #11
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    Oscar is in good company...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cted_of_crimes


    (Sorry if I have previously posted this. My memory is a little fuzzy in this Pistorius haze.)

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    A reminder of the links to our reappraisal of the evidence posts so far.

    The abrasions on Reeva’s back– impressions of the gun?
    The bathroom window – the moment that everything changed? (coming next)
    The bedroom door– when was it damaged?
    The bullet trajectories– what does the maths tell us?
    The cricket bat– which came first?
    The phone data– was someone awake?
    "O, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!" Sir Walter Scott

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Fossil View Post
    From mrjitty (previous thread) RSBM

    If you place yourself in his shoes and consider that you have been bashing the toilet door with a bat then shot your girlfriend, your awareness of the events is to the fore. You will know that there are tiles on the floor that fell when you struck the door frame and that would alert you to the marks on the door (if you hadn't already spotted them). How will you explain the scene? You have minutes to make something up. I don't think his problem was figuring what to say and do, he just messed it up (blood on bat). We think he made other mistakes too in staging the scene because he necessarily had to act in haste. If we're right, I wouldn't mind betting this part of the staging came late in his thinking, hence the blood.
    I find this whole aspect of the staging fascinating. Do you have time to discuss it?

    My feeling is that the staging of the body was by far the biggest mistake - due to the "S" arterial bleed

    I think it is also possible that shooting through the door is part of the staging of the murder - in other words he decided specifically to shoot her that way

    Also - due to the early arrival of Dr Stipp he had no time to fix up the scene in the bedroom

    The cricket bar/door was probably not a bad effort - but it only succeeded because of the fortunate factor that witnesses mistook that sound for gunshots

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeJudi View Post
    I'm certain there would be others that we're unaware of.
    Exactly

    This is why as neighbours, we rang the police every single time our charming downstairs neighbour was attacking his young pregnant girlfriend.

    The police never did anything - but i wanted to create a track record of incident reports for when he eventually did put her in hospital.

    Eventually he moved out before that happened - but not before he also threatened numerous people in the house.

    The profile of this type of guy is really not unusual.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjitty View Post
    I find this whole aspect of the staging fascinating. Do you have time to discuss it?

    My feeling is that the staging of the body was by far the biggest mistake - due to the "S" arterial bleed

    I think it is also possible that shooting through the door is part of the staging of the murder - in other words he decided specifically to shoot her that way

    Also - due to the early arrival of Dr Stipp he had no time to fix up the scene in the bedroom

    The cricket bar/door was probably not a bad effort - but it only succeeded because of the fortunate factor that witnesses mistook that sound for gunshots
    I'm here off and on so my replies might be slow coming.

    I do not think he planned to murder Reeva. If he had he'd have done a better job of concocting his story. I really believe that it was the result of a domino sequence of escalating events.

    I also disagree about Dr Stipp inasmuch as he had already called Stander, Netcare and Security: all preceded by calling for help - he was never going to be able to control who arrived and when.

    The final four bangs were gunshots and that is what the ear witnesses reported hearing. The cricket bat hitting the door for the final time may have been what woke Mrs Nhlengethwa. The Stipps were inside, Dr Stipp getting ready to go to the gate. They were the only people to hear the bat the first time (if it was the bat) because of their proximity and they were awake (she was, and he could only have been dozing - recall that Baba had previously spoken to him between 02:00 and 02:55 about the balcony window being open).

    To quote Dixon (17 April 2014):
    "My Lady, what I know about the way the recording was done: the gunshots are of a much higher cracking sound, the bat is lower, doesn't travel"

    Oscar was fighting a rear guard action after the shooting.
    Last edited by Mr Fossil; 11-12-2015 at 10:27 AM. Reason: added Dixon quote
    "O, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!" Sir Walter Scott

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