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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by G&AMom View Post
    Thank you, YesOrNo, for your continuing synopsis.

    I must say I didn't think it was possible to dislike Nurmi more, and yet somehow it is.

    Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk
    I know, right? He repeatedly pats himself on the back for being a disinterested defender of justice, for being able to discern the truth that others can't or won't see, and for being able to put his personal feelings to the side. And yet he happily repeats gossip about JM (including a Hitler comparison--spoken by someone else, of course) and even criticizes JM for operating in the courtroom as if the ends justify the means. Excuse me . . . what??? Does this man have an ounce of self-awareness?

    To answer my question: no, of course not. I read only self-regard in place of self-awareness. In fact, judging from all the excerpts provided here (and thanks YorN and others!), his book smells of weaselness. He wants to have it both ways: on the one hand, he wants to assure readers that he really really doesn't like JA (shades of seventh grade) but was forced to defend--heroically--her constitutional rights (pat pat); on the other hand, he repeatedly implies that Travis got what was coming to him and therefore, so goes the whispered implication, the killer's obvious lies, while still lies, might have been "right" after all.

    It's not that I assume criminal lawyers have to like their client, or even believe their innocence--far from it. But I do find Nurmi's insecure need to reassure the world that he was on to the killer from the beginning very revealing. He seems so eager to prove that he was always on top of everything and was never snowballed. Heh.

    Whatever, Nurms. BTW, you really rock that '90s gangsta look. (I know, I know--unfair and very petty snark. I just smacked down my typing hand.)

    And finally, I have to confess that as an academic I'm a snob about self-published "books." In the publishing world, nothing gets published until it's peer-reviewed. And then edited. And then copy-edited. If something is self-published, well . . .

    Enough said and angry rant over!
    Last edited by Becky Sharp; 11-24-2015 at 08:35 PM. Reason: spelling

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becky Sharp View Post
    I know, right? He repeatedly pats himself on the back for being a disinterested defender of justice, for being able to discern the truth that others can't or won't see, and for being able to put his personal feelings to the side. And yet he happily repeats gossip about JM (including a Hitler comparison--spoken by someone else, of course) and even criticizes JM for operating in the courtroom as if the ends justify the means. Excuse me . . . what??? Does this man have an ounce of self-awareness?

    To answer my question: no, of course not. I read only self-regard in place of self-awareness. In fact, judging from all the excerpts provided here (and thanks YorN and others!), his book smells of weaselness. He wants to have it both ways: on the one hand, he wants to assure readers that he really really doesn't like JA (shades of seventh grade) but was forced to defend--heroically--her constitutional rights (pat pat); on the other hand, he repeatedly implies that Travis got what was coming to him and therefore, so goes the whispered implication, the killer's obvious lies, while still lies, might have been "right" after all.

    It's not that I assume criminal lawyers have to like their client, or even believe their innocence--far from it. But I do find Nurmi's insecure need to reassure the world that he was on to the killer from the beginning very revealing. He seems so eager to prove that he was always on top of everything and was never snowballed. Heh.

    Whatever, Nurms. BTW, you really rock that '90s gangsta look. (I know, I know--unfair and very petty snarky. I just smacked down my typing hand.)

    And finally, I have to confess that as an academic I'm a snob about self-published "books." In the publishing world, nothing gets published until it's peer-reviewed. And then edited. And then copy-edited. If something is self-published, well . . .

    Enough said and angry rant over!
    Yes, that wanting to have it both ways is the hallmark of his thinking. Plus, he has this attitude (just like his client) that readers will accept whatever he says uncritically with thinking about it at all.

    The publishing world has changed so much that I have become more accepting of self-published books, but I find it frustrating that so many authors have total disregard for typos and grammatical errors, not to mention some of the whopping other mistakes I've seen -- doesn't it bother them when they read books with so many mistakes? Or do they just publish but don't read?



    Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk
    We may have all come on different ships, but we're in the same boat now ~ Martin Luther King Jr.

  3. #33
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    Please note:

    It has been brought to my attention on The Sidebar (where I post my notes also) that there were 2 spelling mistakes on what I quoted from Lawrence's words: (BBM)

    "Having offered all this information to you, those waiting for me to apologize for doing my job had better not hold their breathe (breath?) because they will be waiting a long time,in fact, such an apology will never come. Furthermore, I will make no apologiers (apologies?) about repeating the reality of the evidence that had to be collected and/or presented throughout this book. 'Facts are stubborn things' "[/I] (pg. 82-83)"

    These were in fact my mistakes and not Lawrence's.

    This is what I posted on the SB in my defense:

    Sorry, but I have made those mistakes in spelling/spacing when I wrote them to my Word Pad and it was not Lawrence who spelled them incorrectly in his book.

    The sections quoted are not copied and pasted as what I am copying from is an actual book and not a website on the internet. Since I type with 2 fingers and I'm not a secretary or transcriber, I'm pretty bad at typing (and slow, too). And since I have gotten older, I tend to reverse the order of/add letters; my mind and fingers do not compute anymore. It's very frustrating to me. I do try to copy the exact words when I quote Lawrence's words, but I don't always succeed. I'm sorry as I try to be exact, but I'm just losing my brains as I age. I do go over what I have written also, but I don't always catch my mistakes.

    And since the book does not easily stay open, I have to read the sentences, put the book down, and then type the words into the computer and there lies one of the difficulties for me as I'm not looking at the words as I type. So- many problems for me. (What my son could type in 5 minutes, will takes me 30 minutes. )

    These notes were just originally for me, but I thought it would be nice for the SBers who were not buying the book, to have a small look-see into Lawrence's mind as I find it very interesting myself.

    And for myself- yes- there are some errors in punctuation in the book that I have noticed, but I'm not reading the book to see what Lawrence's editor has done wrong. I'm interested in what Lawrence has to say, so I overlook the errors.

    Sorry again.
    ----------------------

    Travis Alexander (1977-2008)

    Teghan Alyssa Skiba (RIP sweet baby)
    -------------------------
    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -Eleanor Roosevelt

    Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle. - Ian MacLaren

    The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it - Flannery O'connor

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by YESorNO View Post
    Please note:

    It has been brought to my attention on The Sidebar (where I post my notes also) that there were 2 spelling mistakes on what I quoted from Lawrence's words: (BBM)

    "Having offered all this information to you, those waiting for me to apologize for doing my job had better not hold their breathe (breath?) because they will be waiting a long time,in fact, such an apology will never come. Furthermore, I will make no apologiers (apologies?) about repeating the reality of the evidence that had to be collected and/or presented throughout this book. 'Facts are stubborn things' "[/I] (pg. 82-83)"

    These were in fact my mistakes and not Lawrence's.

    This is what I posted on the SB in my defense:

    Sorry, but I have made those mistakes in spelling/spacing when I wrote them to my Word Pad and it was not Lawrence who spelled them incorrectly in his book.

    The sections quoted are not copied and pasted as what I am copying from is an actual book and not a website on the internet. Since I type with 2 fingers and I'm not a secretary or transcriber, I'm pretty bad at typing (and slow, too). And since I have gotten older, I tend to reverse the order of/add letters; my mind and fingers do not compute anymore. It's very frustrating to me. I do try to copy the exact words when I quote Lawrence's words, but I don't always succeed. I'm sorry as I try to be exact, but I'm just losing my brains as I age. I do go over what I have written also, but I don't always catch my mistakes.

    And since the book does not easily stay open, I have to read the sentences, put the book down, and then type the words into the computer and there lies one of the difficulties for me as I'm not looking at the words as I type. So- many problems for me. (What my son could type in 5 minutes, will takes me 30 minutes. )

    These notes were just originally for me, but I thought it would be nice for the SBers who were not buying the book, to have a small look-see into Lawrence's mind as I find it very interesting myself.

    And for myself- yes- there are some errors in punctuation in the book that I have noticed, but I'm not reading the book to see what Lawrence's editor has done wrong. I'm interested in what Lawrence has to say, so I overlook the errors.

    Sorry again.
    Oh YESorNO, you're such a sweetheart! A big kiss to you:

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Becky Sharp View Post
    Oh YESorNO, you're such a sweetheart! A big kiss to you:

    Y/N.....I love that you call him Lawrence.

    Your time and care in reading & posting about his gibberish is greatly appreciated. Hope you put down that turkey's book and enjoy a delectable sort of bird tomorrow, followed by heaps of chocolate.
    RIP, Cassini. To her tireless overseers- job well done.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becky Sharp View Post
    Oh YESorNO, you're such a sweetheart! A big kiss to you:
    How have you been my dear Becky?

    And a Happy Thanksgiving to you (and to all on this thread)

    ----------------------

    Travis Alexander (1977-2008)

    Teghan Alyssa Skiba (RIP sweet baby)
    -------------------------
    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -Eleanor Roosevelt

    Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle. - Ian MacLaren

    The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it - Flannery O'connor

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hope4More View Post
    Y/N.....I love that you call him Lawrence.

    Your time and care in reading & posting about his gibberish is greatly appreciated. Hope you put down that turkey's book and enjoy a delectable sort of bird tomorrow, followed by heaps of chocolate.
    Yesssss- lots of chocolates

    (I'll take Thanksgiving off and won't post my notes tomorrow )

    Happy Thanksgiving!
    ----------------------

    Travis Alexander (1977-2008)

    Teghan Alyssa Skiba (RIP sweet baby)
    -------------------------
    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -Eleanor Roosevelt

    Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle. - Ian MacLaren

    The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it - Flannery O'connor

  8. #38
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    Trapped with Ms. Arias


    Section 3

    Preparing for the Guilt Phase


    in Aug 2009 L thought case was "pretty much set in stone"

    more evidence came in

    in this section L will discuss:

    obtaining new evidence

    in chap 14- obtaining text messages
    in chap 15- obtaining emails
    in chap 16- "the ordeal that was 'The Letters' "
    in chap 17- sex tapes
    in chap 18 - more info received about TA
    in chap 19- "reviewing the murderer's jail phone calls "
    in chap 20- "getting past the infamous 'ninja story' "
    in chap 21- "importance or lack of the murder weapons"
    in chap 22- "Ms. Arias' supposed guilt phase witnesses"
    in chap 23-24- "discuss the important interviews that took place since I obtained the file. A new stone had indeed emerged"
    ================================================== ==========================

    Chapter 14

    The Text Messages


    at first, few text messages

    were found on TA's phone by Mesa police dept- recovered from his house (found 2-3 days when TA's body found- phone found between 6/9/2008 and 6/11/2008)

    case was a " 'who-done-it' " and who had motivation to commit crime (argument? threats?, etc)

    received case a "year or so later"- was not a "who-done-it" to him- never believed ninja story "I did not need to determine who did it"

    needed all evidence could find "that would demonstrate to a jury the history of the relationship... evidence that relationship itself gave rise to any psychological issues..."

    if he didn't seek out the evidence, could be grounds for conviction/sentence being overturned for ineffective assistance of counsel

    entitled to text messages by law and State was required to give them to the defense

    State did not give all texts to him

    2 reasons- could be

    -no text messages?

    -State not following law?

    knew texts existed- issue became forcing State to comply- "had the State been complying with the law, they would have been turned in already"

    needed "courtroom intervention" - filed Motion to Comply - response from State- texts didn't exist

    State served search warrant on cell phone co- there were 100s of texts! ("not shocking to me at all")

    talks about not receiving texts from phone co himself- State received them 1st- "would have preferred this [received them directly] so I could feel more confident that the messages themselves were unaltered"

    "..it is amazing how the State when called out for violating the rules suddenly cares about them when it is to their advantage."

    talks about "after several weeks of litigation...weeks of waiting, I had info...that should have been automatically handed over to me when I first received the file" (pg 75)

    Note: seems the page #s are screwed up (thought I was going crazy) Chapter 13 ends on pg 89- then next- Section 3 Preparing for the Guilt Phase is pg. 71

    received many text messages "not spelled out in a cohesive manner"

    TA and the murderer texted a lot, every day, often several times day- frequency demonstrated that they were really involved with each other

    "demonstrated to me that there was no point in time where Mr. Alexander tried to disengage from Ms. Arias by actually not communicating with her , he either responded
    to her text messages or initiated a conversation...instead of wanting nothing to do with her as he told others, the objective data told a much different story, that he was very
    into Ms. Arias....further evidence of the reality that Ms. Arias was not a 'stalker ex-girlfriend' but at the very least she was Mr. Alexander's friend and sexual partner"
    (pg. 75)

    to L texts were "genuine and objective..wrote at a time when neither had an incentive to fabricate.....no secret motive behind them... thinking that nobody but themselves would ever read them"

    L thoughts about texts- "Wow this stuff is amazing"- provided him with insight into relationship- a "treasure trove"- illustrated "chaos inherent in this relationship"

    talks about some of the texts- TA texted didn't want anything to do with the murderer- next, she was most beautiful : another text- called her a "evil liar" then he

    loved her and "was awesome"; another text, TA "even threatened to destroy Ms. Arias by turning everyone she cared about against her''

    "remarkable" to L because they kept talking to each other- relationship was chaotic- TA "didn't hold anything back...was comfortable articulating his anger"

    sex was important part relationship (talks about " BJs,mouth hugs", oral sex, spankings, re to anal sex, sexual intercourse, re their genitals) so many texts that they blended together

    found it funny- "Funny because in one text Ms Arias was talking about how she groomed her vagina for Mr. Alexander and in the next text she asserted her support for Mitt
    Romney in the upcoming election"


    other texts found on the murderer's Helio phone (the one she said was stolen)

    some texts were very graphic- nude photo shoots TA wanted her to participate in, rape after photo shoot

    conclusions he came to: "My overarching thought was one of sadness- so many texts that were non-sexual, loving or downright mundane"- taken as whole, texts made him feel sad

    "it was as if I was watching two people running towards a cliff that neither fo them could see but not being able to warn them because it was too late, they had already fallen" (pg 77)

    L says that TA and the murderer were "dedicated to the relationship regardless of how unhealthy it was"

    questions he had at this point:

    - why did they still interact with ea other

    - why did the murderer stay after TA had "disdain" for her- why not move on - had Ryan and others

    - why continued sexual relationship after break-up

    text messages were sent to others also- important to see how they interacted with others

    L wasn't interested in TA's business, meeting schedules or other info about the murderer's misc texts

    interested in TA's text messages to other women that were sexual- not to "trash " or "bash" the victim

    "is it bashing the victim if it is the truth?"- context of massages is the truth- TA sent "graphically sexual messages to other women...in doing so...revealed that he was certainly not a one woman man" (pg 79)

    stated that the murderer was not TA's only sexual partner- he was "reliving the moments he spent between their legs" in his texts to them

    L states that TA was free to have sex with whomever he wanted and didn't deserve to be killed for having sex with others

    BUT...

    "However, you are wrong when you say it is not relevant in the sense that the Supreme Cort says it is highly relevant to present the circumstances of the offense to the jury in a death penalty case, so relevant in fact that my failure to do so could have led to a reversal...these text messages negate any argument that Ms. Arias is responsible for luring Mr. Alexander into the evils of sex. Now you may believe that this is what she did but the facts, those stubborn things that they are, demonstrate that this is not true." (pg 80)

    L states- some text messages were missing "from certain conversations"...intentional?

    L had concerns that someone deleted some data- could never prove it at the time
    ================================================== =

    Chapter 15

    The Emails and Other Online Communications


    State did not comply with rules for handing over emails/other commun- filed Motion to Compel

    was ton of emails/online "chats"

    also "objective" like the texts were, for same reasons

    wonders why they just didn't talk to each other in person/on phone? this was how things were done by younger generation he assumes

    but- considered possibility deeper psychological issues that made them less "vulnerable to each other's words"- may never understand tho'

    many messages "blended together...a few stood out"

    email the murderer sent to friend Abe- became big deal - 2nd trial

    "..this email made it clear that at some point in time Mr. Alexander and Ms. Arias had a conversation about the interaction and/or relationship that Ms Arias had with Abe"....TA.."did not approve of any continued interaction between Ms. Arias and Abe. "- TA had "power and control over Ms. Arias"

    speaks about online "chats"

    -L states most important chat to him : 5/2008 (the "whore, slut, 3-whole wonder, corruptive carcass")

    - horrible things to say- amazes him that "MS. Arias simply took it and did not return fire by calling him names"...did not.."put an end to the conversation"

    - why was TA still talking to slut?, why the murderer kept talking to TA?

    - conclusion for L- "they were addicted to each other"

    another email: stands out to L: 1/2007- TA speaking to Chris/Sky Hughes ( background- Chris/Shy told the murderer to move on because TA "loved Deanna Reid and because he wasn't treating her well" The murderer told TA and he emailed the Hughes)

    - "Mr Alexander begins this conversation by blaming Chris and Sky for speaking ill of him and/or bashing him in front of Ms. Arias. He expressed his unhappiness that Chris and Sky Hughes had called him a jerk who was abusive to woman. Mr. Alexander also seemed upset that the Hughes had told Ms. Arias that he was using her for a booty call and that he would never commit to her until he was over his feelings for Ms. Reid." (pg 84)

    Hughes decide that they said things because the murderer lied to them

    L says facts "as Mr. Hughes put it..in past 5 years" Ta "not committed to one woman..that Deanna was always in the background..." loved Deanna- no commitment tho' and he was "biggest flirt this side of the Mississippi"- TA likes to claims that "the T-Dog pulls chicks"

    Chris amused by how TA "would hook up with chicks, get into their hearts and then become disinterested"

    Sky said the murderer in love with TA and " to him she was just a booty call"- TA called the murderer a "skank", she called TA a "heart predator", said TA "took great joy in making women fall for him and laughs about what he could get away with"

    Shy also said that she wouldn't want sister to be with TA and would not allow it

    "..one of Mr. Alexander's closet friends would be fearful of how he would treat her sister...ponder that statement... and ask yourself, would I want Travis Alexander dating my sister?" (pg 85)
    ================================================== ===============

    Next:

    Chapter 16
    The Letters

    Chapter 17
    The Phone Sex Tape
    ================================================== ===============
    ----------------------

    Travis Alexander (1977-2008)

    Teghan Alyssa Skiba (RIP sweet baby)
    -------------------------
    No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -Eleanor Roosevelt

    Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle. - Ian MacLaren

    The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it - Flannery O'connor

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becky Sharp View Post
    I know, right? He repeatedly pats himself on the back for being a disinterested defender of justice, for being able to discern the truth that others can't or won't see, and for being able to put his personal feelings to the side. And yet he happily repeats gossip about JM (including a Hitler comparison--spoken by someone else, of course) and even criticizes JM for operating in the courtroom as if the ends justify the means. Excuse me . . . what??? Does this man have an ounce of self-awareness?


    To answer my question: no, of course not. I read only self-regard in place of self-awareness. In fact, judging from all the excerpts provided here (and thanks YorN and others!), his book smells of weaselness. He wants to have it both ways: on the one hand, he wants to assure readers that he really really doesn't like JA (shades of seventh grade) but was forced to defend--heroically--her constitutional rights (pat pat); on the other hand, he repeatedly implies that Travis got what was coming to him and therefore, so goes the whispered implication, the killer's obvious lies, while still lies, might have been "right" after all.

    It's not that I assume criminal lawyers have to like their client, or even believe their innocence--far from it. But I do find Nurmi's insecure need to reassure the world that he was on to the killer from the beginning very revealing. He seems so eager to prove that he was always on top of everything and was never snowballed. Heh.

    Whatever, Nurms. BTW, you really rock that '90s gangsta look. (I know, I know--unfair and very petty snark. I just smacked down my typing hand.)

    And finally, I have to confess that as an academic I'm a snob about self-published "books." In the publishing world, nothing gets published until it's peer-reviewed. And then edited. And then copy-edited. If something is self-published, well . . .

    Enough said and angry rant over!
    Great Post Becky. I agree with everything you said.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by YESorNO View Post
    Trapped with Ms. Arias:

    Chapter 11


    My Initial Review of the Evidence as it Related to Mr. Alexander

    L talks about learning about the victim so the jury can figure out the sentence for client

    "Many might say that this amounts to 'dragging the victim through the mud' "

    L talks about the talking head's on TV "verbal tirade about defense attys or our criminal justice system"

    "Thus, as it related to Ms. Arias' case her jury needed to consider the dynamics of the relationship she shared with Mr. Alexander before a lawful sentence could be rendered....if I had not presented such evidence Ms. Arias would likely be getting a new trial.

    Having offered all this information to you, those waiting for me to apologize for doing my job had better not hold their breathe because they will be waiting a long time,in fact, such an apology will never come. Furthermore, I will make no apologiers about repeating the reality of the evidence that had to be collected and/or presented throughout this book. 'Facts are stubborn things' "
    (pg. 82-83)

    L says -in beginning of case it's hard to get accurate picture of who Travis was- "inaccurate or contradictory [info] to other evidence"

    (snipped for space) =============

    Chapter 13

    My Initial Review of Mr. Martinez


    never had a case against (with) JM

    had other sources of info about him- court opinions -"always nuclear war with him"- L took to mean that JM did what he wanted, "didn't care about what others thought of him, including the court"

    L heard from former colleague ("who was Jewish") referred to JM as "Hitler"

    goes on to talk about things/stories that JM said/did- "but suffice it to say he was not well thought of within the defense community, not because of the convictions he obtained but because of the way he operated." (pg.89)

    impression L got of JM- "a no holds barred kind of guy....feels like the ends justify the means and for that reason he feels comfortable with being so caustic in the courtroom."

    End of Section 2 (pg 89)
    ================================================== ===========================

    Next:

    Section 3
    Preparing For the Guilt Phase

    Chapter 14
    The Text Messages

    Chapter 15
    The Emails and Other Online Communications
    ================================================== =======================

    BBM: Many absurd statements coming out of the Nurms but the one bolded is incredible. Martinez feels the end justifies the means so no holds barred? Really?

    What is so incredible is that Nurmi is quick to point out what he sees as a major flaw in someone else without seeing that same flaw in himself. For Nurmi the end justified the means throughout the entire trial and he had no holds barred to the point of not just unethical but unconstitutional. And he didn't just do it occasionally. Even now he feels justified in what he did, saying it was his job.

    Yes, Nurmi, it was your job to provide a defense, to try to raise reasonable doubt, etc. We do not question your doing your job...we question how you did it, especially when you whine about the manner in which the prosecutor did his job.

    Wow. Just...wow.


  11. #41
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    A fellow has sent me the book.

    It's going to be interesting what contradictions, if any, we find in this book when Juan's comes out.

    I've had two family members ask me what I want for Christmas ..and guess what I asked for

    ETA - iirc for the FCA case we had a book chain going in a specific thread .. Is that going on with Nurmis book ?

  12. #42
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    Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

  13. #43
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    Happy thanksgiving !!

    Hi , wishing all a very happy holiday. I will be here! We are ordering food and eating at home. This is fine with all of us. AtTheLake~ I believe we are going to share books. I didn't buy Nurmis' but Juans is on order. Niner is in first place for my share. We did this during Scott P. and it worked out fine. tomorrow!!
    My Buffy. He lives in Heaven now
    with my loved ones..xoxox

  14. #44
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    I tried and failed to even wade through the stuff on Amazon, so, Yes or No... a million thanks for taking a big hit for the team. You not only give us the facts, but an amazing view inside KN's head.

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.
    The greatest trespasser on justice still wishes it done to him.

    EDWARD COUNSEL, Maxims

  15. #45
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    has anyone heard a peep out of jodi, or words from jodi to her supporters since this book is out? do you think she's in the psych unit on suicide watch or freaking out really bad?
    OCCAM'S RAZOR : "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."

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