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  1. #31
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    Jun 2004
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    If MS was "skimming" cash out of the medical practice -of which having $40K in cash in a home safe would be a prime indication - he may have been reporting only "minimal wages" for TS. Monthly SS benefits are determined by a combination of the number of quarters worked during the work lifetime of the person and the amount they actually contributed to the fund (which is based on their wages). And there is a cap on benefits, for everyone no matter how much you actually earned per year. (There is also an annual cap on the amount of wages upon which FICA taxes are withheld.)

    By the way, it was another bone-headed move for MS to have that much cash in the house when he was planning to have the wife murdered. Instant red flags for anyone to have that much cash.

    Did he really, really think that because he was not in town that law enforcement would not suspect him? He really is a total idiot in addition to being a psychopath!

    -----------------------------------------------

    A self-employed person must pay in at a double rate - paying as the employee and paying as the employer. So when you work for a large company, you pay in half and the employer pays in half. But if you are a non-incorporated independent contractor - such as a real estate agent, for instance - you have to pay in the double rate.

    As far as the life insurance payout - no way on the face of the earth are the insurance companies going to pay out at this time. Even if he never gets charged, he will likely have to sue the insurance companies to try to get them to pay!

  2. #32
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    Oct 2008
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    I have a question. Let's say TS took out a business loan and owes $50,000 to Bank ABC. Can Bank ABC go after TS's personal or business life insurance??? Idk, can the court appoint someone to act as a trustee (anyone other than MS of course) to use her life insurance to pay off her debts?

  3. #33
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    Jun 2004
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    The answer to this question would depend on various areas of state law. In a "community property" state (and I don't know if Florida is one of them) all assets and all debts are considered to belong to both of the people in the marriage. So theoretically at least, the remaining "partner" of a marriage could possibly be held liable for the other's debts.

    In other states, such as Pennsylvania, marital partners are considered to be separate entities and a wife cannot be held liable for a deceased spouse's debts - as long as she was not a party to the original loan.

    Then there are Probate laws, which are different in each state. A person's debts can be charged against their estate. If the estate has any assets. In most, but not all cases, if something like a house was in both names, the house automatically becomes the property of the surviving spouse upon the death and debts cannot be collected against it. But, again, individual state laws de termine things like this.

    As for life insurance, if a person has a named beneficiary, the life insurance proceeds go directly to that person and do not become a part of the dead person's estate.

    It would have been a good thing if TS had named her children as primary beneficiaries on one of those four policies. But as secondary beneficiaries only, they cannot collect. And no, no creditor could ever "go after" a life insurance policy. BUT there have been cases where a person has named their own estate as the beneficiary of a life insurance policy. In that case, the life insurance money would be paid to and become part of the estate assets. And then a creditor could go after it.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    4,326

    Bk Loan(s) to Dr TS? On whose siggie? Secured or unsecured? Credit Life Ins?

    Quote Originally Posted by FightTheOstrich View Post
    I have a question. Let's say TS took out a business loan and owes $50,000 to Bank ABC. Can Bank ABC go after TS's personal or business life insurance??? Idk, can the court appoint someone to act as a trustee (anyone other than MS of course) to use her life insurance to pay off her debts?
    AlwaysShocked provided some good info in post just above. Here are my thoughts, based upon some other possibilities, opns, or azz-umptions, as stated.

    If Dr TS had bank loan(s) for practice, she may have gotten w her siggie only. Or maybe bank required MS siggie too. IDK.
    If she had incorporated her practice (prof corp, LLC, what-ev), she may have signed only as principal/officer of business entity & not personally (unlikely imo). IDK.

    Also possible - loan(s) may have been issued w 'credit life ins' policy on Dr TS's life, for amt of loan, so Dr TS signed ins co form designating bank/lender as beneficiary and paid 'credit life ins' premiums 'built in' to loan payments----
    ----so in event of her death, ins co wd pay death benefit directly to bank as named beneficiary to cover unpaid balance. Which, as it turns out here, occurred before she had (hypo'ly) entirely repaid the (hypo) loan(s). IDK.

    If before her death, she had repaid (hypo)loan entirely, per credit life ins policy & loan terms, death benefit $ of policy would have declined to zero $, so ins co would not pay $ to named bank/lender or to anyone else benef. No death benefit $ remaining. IDK.

    Possible - she pledged other assets (unknown to us) to secure loan(s). Possible she had other assets, property, accounts that she could have used as collateral. If so, bank/lender would (likely, imo) have had approp doc's allowing them to take title to collateral to satisfy the unpaid balance, in event of default on loan(s) or on her death. IDK.

    Possible - bank requested Dr TS on existing LI policies when loan was made to name bank as benef. Dr TS may have signed LI co forms to designate bank/lender as benef. IDK.

    Hoping W/S bus. loan officers will chime in to clarify or correct ^. Pls & thx in adv.

    But in brief, agreeing w AlwaysShocked - Bank/lender as (unsecured) creditor "going after" LI policy naming MS or Dau's as benef's is up the creek. If bank/lender did not take approp steps to reduce its risk, it may not be repaid and may have uncollectible loan account.*

    Seems Dr TS was a wonderful physician, mother, and person. Sad, sad, sad, that she met her end this way.

    __________________________________________________ __
    * http://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/...ollectible.asp
    "Loans, receivables or other debts that have virtually no chance of being paid. An account may become uncollectible for many reasons, including the debtor's bankruptcy, an inability to find the debtor, lack of proper documentation, etc."
    Last edited by al66pine; 01-09-2016 at 04:55 AM.

  5. #35
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    Jul 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riversinthedesert View Post
    SS, this is good info. and thanks to AlwaysShocked for bringing this likely source of MS's income to our attention. Is your estimated figure the combined amount MS would receive for himself plus the 2 girls?
    Yes, my guesstimate is “the combined amount MS would receive for himself plus the 2 girls.”

    There is a Family Maximum Benefit computation which is explained in more detail at this link I previously provided:
    https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/familymax.html
    Formula For Family Maximum Benefit
    Computation of the Retirement and Survivor Family Maximum

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    319
    Maybe MS paid for some of CWW's prior legal bills...and as someone mentioned repaying an old debt by killing TS. But then there is JRR someone had to pay him...

  7. #37
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    Oct 2008
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    Would MS be eligible for unemployment? How does that work when you kill your employer???

  8. #38
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    Jul 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by FightTheOstrich View Post
    Would MS be eligible for unemployment? How does that work when you kill your employer???
    He would be eligible for unemployment. He hasn't been charged with his wife/employer's death. He can't live on employment insurance in FL, the max you can collect is $250 per week. It's a pathetic joke to expect anyone to survive on that amount, ask me.. I know.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FightTheOstrich View Post
    Would MS be eligible for unemployment? How does that work when you kill your employer???
    Quote Originally Posted by AC's Grandma View Post
    He would be eligible for unemployment. He hasn't been charged with his wife/employer's death. He can't live on employment insurance in FL, the max you can collect is $250 per week. It's a pathetic joke to expect anyone to survive on that amount, ask me.. I know.
    Florida unemployment benefits are currently “a maximum of $275 per week.”

    http://www.stateofflorida.com/articl...mployment.aspx

    MS’s eligibility for unemployment benefits would initially hinge on whether he has had “wages earned in what is called the "base period," which is the first four complete quarters beginning 18 months prior to your claim“. "Typically, Reemployment Assistance lasts up to 26 weeks or until employment is found."

    MS might not have been getting paid a paycheck from TS’s business, but if he was getting paid payroll wages during this timeframe, he would likely be eligible to file a claim for unemployment benefits.

  10. #40
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    Jul 2015
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    284
    He doesn't seem to be hurting too much for money...still can't mow his own lawn and pays for landscaping service. He's also had some concrete and tree stumps recently pulled up. Doesn't seem to be feeling much sting yet!


  11. #41
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by mckazpm View Post
    He doesn't seem to be hurting too much for money...still can't mow his own lawn and pays for landscaping service. He's also had some concrete and tree stumps recently pulled up. Doesn't seem to be feeling much sting yet!
    Between the cash he had stashed, collecting social security benefits (the girls), unemployment benefits, etc... He'd have enough to to keep the lights on and feed the girls and retain an attorney for a bit. But one wouldn't think he'd have enough to hire a lawn service. If he's comfortable enough biking through the neighborhood he can mow his own lawn. Wow! Maybe he's trying to make his last months on the outside as comfortable as possible.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeesSeas View Post
    Florida unemployment benefits are currently “a maximum of $275 per week.”

    http://www.stateofflorida.com/articl...mployment.aspx

    MS’s eligibility for unemployment benefits would initially hinge on whether he has had “wages earned in what is called the "base period," which is the first four complete quarters beginning 18 months prior to your claim“. "Typically, Reemployment Assistance lasts up to 26 weeks or until employment is found."

    MS might not have been getting paid a paycheck from TS’s business, but if he was getting paid payroll wages during this timeframe, he would likely be eligible to file a claim for unemployment benefits.
    Oh I'm sure MS received a paycheck. Long term he'd want to collect social security benefits and I'm sure MS needed his "own" money.
    Last edited by FightTheOstrich; 01-11-2016 at 10:24 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FightTheOstrich View Post
    Between the cash he had stashed, collecting social security benefits (the girls), unemployment benefits, etc... He'd have enough to to keep the lights on and feed the girls and retain an attorney for a bit. But one wouldn't think he'd have enough to hire a lawn service. If he's comfortable enough biking through the neighborhood he can mow his own lawn. Wow! Maybe he's trying to make his last months on the outside as comfortable as possible.
    Isn't there still that pesky matter of the IRS lien against the home?

    The girls lose their mother in the worst way possible, their daddy is a suspect in her murder and may go to prison, and he selfishly hadn't paid the IRS and ignored their communications, so now they may lose their home.
    ...Detective Owens said the driver is not a suspect in the case...
    snippet from washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/20/suspect-in-dc-mansion-slayings-due-back-in-court

  14. #44
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelicityLemon View Post
    Isn't there still that pesky matter of the IRS lien against the home?

    The girls lose their mother in the worst way possible, their daddy is a suspect in her murder and may go to prison, and he selfishly hadn't paid the IRS and ignored their communications, so now they may lose their home.
    When you consider the fact that their mother was bludgeoned to death in the house it might not be such a bad thing (to lose the house).

    I'm hoping he's arrested soon so the girls can start healing.
    Last edited by FightTheOstrich; 01-11-2016 at 11:01 PM.

  15. #45
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    Jan 2012
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    Why is their a lien on the house? I missed that! Thanks.

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