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  1. #1
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    Why the 'Perfect Family' Front?

    Something I do not understand about Patsy and John is their need to downplay the bedwetting.

    Also, If they weren't so adamant that there was barely a cross word ever exchanged in that big ole house of theirs, I think I would be more apt to give them a pass.

    What is so wrong with saying, "You know, sometimes I got a bit frustrated with the bed wetting. She was never punished for it, but as a mother you want your child to get past that." ?? But noooooooooo.

    Jamie Bulger's mother gave an interview to a British tabloid and stated quite openly that she wished she could have the normal mother-teenager fights with her son.

    I believe it's because Jamie's mother has nothing to hide.
    Above is my opinion only

  2. #2
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    I can't imagine a mother , in this era of enlightenment, getting frustrated or upset over bedwetting. A poor, illiterate, perhaps, could get upset, others have materials to read, doctors to explain, all of the information they would need and realize it is not a personality problem or a failure on the part of a parent with training their child to toilet. As a mother, of one bedwetter, I KNEW, no one had to tell me, that this child slept differently and more deeply than the rest. This could however be a clue! Someone may have known how deeply Jonbenet slept! Not one of the other kids in my house could be carried in without awakening, but the bedwetter wouldn't, couldn't be awakened to walk in, and would never remember getting into bed.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    I can't imagine a mother , in this era of enlightenment, getting frustrated or upset over bedwetting. A poor, illiterate, perhaps, could get upset, others have materials to read, doctors to explain, all of the information they would need and realize it is not a personality problem or a failure on the part of a parent with training their child to toilet. As a mother, of one bedwetter, I KNEW, no one had to tell me, that this child slept differently and more deeply than the rest. This could however be a clue! Someone may have known how deeply Jonbenet slept! Not one of the other kids in my house could be carried in without awakening, but the bedwetter wouldn't, couldn't be awakened to walk in, and would never remember getting into bed.
    You think an inability to read and a lack of money would make a mother more likely to rage at her child for wetting the bed than an overworked, stressed out, highly educated/professional and perhaps single mother?

    Wow.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    You think an inability to read and a lack of money would make a mother more likely to rage at her child for wetting the bed than an overworked, stressed out, highly educated/professional and perhaps single mother?

    Wow.
    Yes! Statistically this would be true, however I wasn't thinking along that line, I was suggesting the access to information would be limited. You are saying it wouldn't?
    edit to add...many here do not have access to health care..many millions of people!

  5. #5
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    http://www.childabuse.com/perp.htm

    High risk parents/parent, care givers:

    1. Over 90% of abusive parents do not have a psychotic or criminal personality.

    Single parent is the sole responsible care giver of a child. Usually with little or no family or friends to assist them. They are lonely, did not plan their pregnancy, have little or no knowledge of child care and child development, and have unrealistic beleifs of child behavior. substance abuse is a common finding in families of abused children.



    http://www.gov.ns.ca/just/childAbuse.htm

    Possible Behavioral and Environmental Characteristics of Abusive Parents or Caretakers

    These indicators are clues, not conclusive proof. Although they are useful to remember when dealing with the parent/caretaker, these characteristics also exist where a child is not abused or neglected. Typically, several clues or indicators will appear, rarely as separate entities. Except for the obvious, single clues should be treated as "flags" which indicate that the professional needs to look further and more carefully.

    Parent / Caretaker History
    • Parent abused or neglected as a child
    • Lack of friendships or emotional support
    • Isolated from supports such as friends, relatives, neighbors, community groups
    • Lack of self-esteem, feelings of worthlessness
    • Marital problems of parents, including spouse abuse
    • Physical or mental health problems, irrational behavior
    • Life crises: financial debt, unemployment / underemployment, housing problems, etc.
    • Alcohol / substance abuse
    • Adolescent parents
    Parent - Child History
    • Parent's unrealistic expectation of child's physical and emotional needs
    • Mentally/developmentally disabled children are particularly vulnerable
    • Parent's unrealistic expectations of child to meet parent's emotional needs (role reversal), children viewed as "miniature adults"
    • Absence of nurturing child-rearing skills
    • Violence/corporal punishment accepted as unquestioned child-rearing practice
    • Violence accepted as a normal means of personal interaction
    • Delay or failure in seeking health care for child's injury, illness, routine checkups, immunizations, etc.
    • Parent views child as bad, evil, different, etc.
    Environmental
    • Lack of social support
    • inability to ask for and receive the kind of help and support parents need for themselves and their children
    • Homelessness

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissi
    I can't imagine a mother , in this era of enlightenment, getting frustrated or upset over bedwetting.
    Interestingly, John Ramsey said in his 1998 interview with investigators that he could never imagine Patsy getting upset or experiencing upsetting physical and mental problems like panic attacks. Yet, in her own 1998 interview, Patsy told investigators that she had experienced several panic attacks, and indeed was taking medication after JonBenet's death to handle these attacks. So we learn two things from this. One, Patsy can do things that even her most intimate family members do not know she does. Two, Patsy was experiencing some degree of emotional illness prior to JonBenet's death, and it was not being treated. Our knowledge that both John and Patsy were put on the powerful antidepressants Paxil and Klonopin after JonBenet's murder means that they were both ill enough to need those drugs, and that since those drugs are prescribed for clinical depression and not situational grief, they were both physically and emotionally ill for quite some time prior to December of 1996.
    "That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

  7. #7
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    I don't think a single panic attack would qualify for treatment. I don't recall that she had more than the one during her chemo. For treatment they want you to have Panic Disorder which means 4 or more attacks a month which affect your daily functioning. e.g. avoidance of 'triggers', self-medication, constant worry about the next attack, etc.

    After the murder I'm sure they both needed everything they got. Not only had their daughter been murdered but for months they were chased by the press, suspected by the police and hounded by the public. What's more telling is they got the help they needed.

    My understanding of the term clinical depression simply means it goes on for more than a couple weeks. It doesn't tell anything about the precipitating cause. In other words you can be clinically depressed due to a situational cause.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brefie
    What is so wrong with saying, "You know, sometimes I got a bit frustrated with the bed wetting. She was never punished for it, but as a mother you want your child to get past that." ?? But noooooooooo.
    As the mother of a boy who wasn't potty trained until age 5, I can tell you, it's pretty damned frustrating and embarrassing. I consulted doctors of all sorts and got no answers. We tried everything we could think of except punishing him.

    My sweet boy is 19 years old today. He FINALLY got it two weeks before kindergarten started and never had an accident again. Thank God.

    The boys problem? In the middle of potty training at age two he broke his foot. To avoid getting the cast wet, we switched back to diapers. Big mistake.
    "To be a good Republican, you have to believe that God hates homosexuality, but loves the death penalty." Ann Richards

  9. #9
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    I only know one person in my age-group who abused HER daughter. I thought she was so nice, but she and her husband turned out to be a pair of nuts whom many of our circle now give a complete body swerve to.

    They had plenty of money, he held a senior management position in a large company and she seemed very down to earth, articulate and intelligent .. and kind.

    Turned out she was being absolutely horrible to their 4 year old daughter and I didn't know what to do when she confided this to me. When you went into their home, the walls were lied with large and expensive portraits of this little girl but she had a miserable life in reality. Her mother used to make her assume punishment positions and she was always threatening to cut all her hair off. Then the mopther got pregnant again and it was unplanned. They kept the baby, but her psychiatric problems did not go unnoticed by a vigilant health visitor and she was supervised closely. They moved away shortly after that so I don't know what the outcome was.

    It was horrible. Things came to a head for my husband and I when the wife called me one day and asked me if I would go and babysit for them one evening. I couldn't babysit because my own husband was away from home on business and I had a toddler and a bew baby of my own. I offered to take her kids at my home, but she said she'd prefer not to disrupt their routine. She was fine about it and said it was OK. They were in a babysitting circle but she didn't want to use it for some reason on that occasion. Next day, I met her husband in the supermarket and he verbally assaulted me in the middle of the store for "ruining" their night out. I was mortified - what did he want me to do - hire a babysitter for my children so I could babysit his? I guess he was under stress. It turned out that part of his wife's psychosis was that she became obsessed with her fingernails and she wouldn't lift a hand even to make a cup of tea so he was having to do the grocery shopping in his lunch break and the housework when he got home from work.

    The cracks eventually did show with this couple, but they went unnoticed for a long time. You never know what goes on behind closed doors.
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  10. #10
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    Whoa, Jayelles, those folks were really, really weird! You really don't know what your neighbor does. Horror!
    Simplicity...patience...compassion


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brefie
    Something I do not understand about Patsy and John is their need to downplay the bedwetting.

    Also, If they weren't so adamant that there was barely a cross word ever exchanged in that big ole house of theirs, I think I would be more apt to give them a pass.

    What is so wrong with saying, "You know, sometimes I got a bit frustrated with the bed wetting. She was never punished for it, but as a mother you want your child to get past that." ?? But noooooooooo.

    Jamie Bulger's mother gave an interview to a British tabloid and stated quite openly that she wished she could have the normal mother-teenager fights with her son.

    I believe it's because Jamie's mother has nothing to hide.
    I don't see the R's promoting thier home as "perfect" rather as "normal".

  12. #12
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    Have you read DOI? They portray the whole family as one big lovey dovey haven of love. Now, my own family is very loving, but you want me to list something that drives me crazy about them????? NO PROBLEM. Even more importantly - NO SECRET!
    Above is my opinion only

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brefie
    Have you read DOI? They portray the whole family as one big lovey dovey haven of love. Now, my own family is very loving, but you want me to list something that drives me crazy about them????? NO PROBLEM. Even more importantly - NO SECRET!
    Well you have to take DOI as it is. I don't think the book is something that conclusions can be drawn from. It is what it is. The R side of things filtered by lawyers.

    Not to mention that familys coming off big emotional rollercoasters such as cancer treatment and survival sometimes are in a state of "lovey dovey" for quite a while. Not forever, but a while.

  14. #14
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    I am sorry - I am not going to dismiss what they portray as their own word under the assumption that their lawyers edited and tweaked those words.

    Patsy told 100 different stories and every last one of them told a tale of a perfect family thay spanned years included tragedy, love, togetherness, love, perfection and more love. Not saying the 'love' part is a lie. Of course they all loved each other, I am not trying to deny that.

    One more question Zman - if you think DOI was 'dolled up' to look good by the lawyers, why not every other word out of their mouths? The first time I ever saw any Ramsey face in the media - they already had lawyers.
    Above is my opinion only

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zman
    I don't see the R's promoting thier home as "perfect" rather as "normal".
    Their house was on the heritage list. They invited 1000's of people into their home to show it off. Patsy , Burke and JonBenet met people at the door in matching outfits......
    Don't try and tell me they didnt promote their home as perfect.
    Last edited by narlacat; 09-25-2005 at 04:03 AM.

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