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  1. #1
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  2. #2
    SteveS is offline Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatfield View Post
    JMO
    To add something that makes me lean towards some kind of deal.
    We have seen signs that the local LE there seem to be "deal happy".

    There was the deal/no-deal with the person that ended up dead in Florida. There was the deal/no-deal/kind of a deal with DA.
    And I have to assume many sentencing deals were made with ZA to be able to be out on the streets with his criminal record.

    So IMO there is evidence that deals are a big tool used in that local jurisdiction.

    It may be common for lots of small jurisdictions to use dealing and plea dealing with their cases. I don't know if it is or isn't. To me it could also be a sign of a lack of competence with being able to handle trying cases in front of a jury. If the DA and the lawyer staff is not very skilled then it seems to me that using deals is one easy way to avoid losing cases or showing lack of skills. I am not sure if that was the case here but I do think the use of deals was widely used in that jurisdiction.
    Very astute observations. But I would add that this makes them like most other places. Too many cases, too few courts, too much iffiness in the system, too few top-notch litigators - add it all together, and making deals is the name of the legal game more often than not. Save the courtroom drama for TV and movies.
    REMINDER: All my comments are IMO AFAIK
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  3. #3
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    Speaking of Plea Bargaining - "95% of all criminal cases are resolved through plea bargains" according to:
    http://thepleabargainingblog.blogspot.com/

    Being interesting to see a state-by-state breakdown of plea-bargains... as well as murder cases versus other crimes...

  4. #4
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    Good Morning !

    And Thanks, Coldpizza, for the new thread for the new year !

    JMSSO = Just My Super Secret Opinion

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    . .


    Wishing everyone a very Happy and Prosperous New Year !


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveS View Post
    Very astute observations. But I would add that this makes them like most other places. Too many cases, too few courts, too much iffiness in the system, too few top-notch litigators - add it all together, and making deals is the name of the legal game more often than not. Save the courtroom drama for TV and movies.
    Thanks SteveS for the other reply at tail end of the other thread and this reply.
    I have a tendency to look for conspiracies even when they may not be there. LOL

    I had not even considered that maybe they did try to get a search warrant early on and maybe they were shot down by a judge which is possible. One thing for sure is the Pearl Heist arrest seems to have precipitated things to get moving in Holly's case.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Speaking of Plea Bargaining - "95% of all criminal cases are resolved through plea bargains" according to:
    http://thepleabargainingblog.blogspot.com/

    Being interesting to see a state-by-state breakdown of plea-bargains... as well as murder cases versus other crimes...
    Thanks OldSteve. I am beginning to see that plea bargains and plea dealings is much more common than I realized. That article is very interesting about Japan who is considering passing a law to begin allow plea dealing. It will be interesting to follow that.

    "It will be fascinating to watch as Japan wrestles with the issue of whether to pass the proposed law. If the law is passed, it will be equally interesting to watch as plea bargaining evolves from its infancy in Japan. Will it come to dominate their system as it has in the United States? Only time will tell. "

    http://thepleabargainingblog.blogspot.com/

  7. #7
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    A fresh new thread! Hooray! March can't come soon enough. Let's get this show on the road already.
    The Skelton boys brought me to Websleuths
    I'm not leaving until they are found!

    - My pet cases -

    Andrew, Alexander and Tanner Skelton - Aliayah Lunsford - Jhessye Shockley - Travis Alexander - Jonathan Foster - Sky Metalwala - Alivia Kail - Bethany Decker - Sherry Leighty - Caylee Anthony - Jennifer Daugherty

  8. #8
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    Carrying over Chainsaw385's reply in the previous thread:



    I don't think you have any idea that some of what DA said in his early statements has been released
    http://www.tennessean.com/story/news...case/17251013/

    DA admitted to the forcible rape of Holly Bobo on April 13th 2011 at ZA's house.......there is no probably about that.

    DA can claim that statement was coerced or he was lying .......but he most certainly made it and very likely signed a paper confirming his confession of raping Holly.

    Your whole last post based on the probability that DA never said anything implicating himself is now moot.

    If DA takes the stand against ZA-JA his admission of raping Holly is fair game.......Of course,DA could plead the fifth but the fact he made that statement is going to be entered as evidence.
    But his testimony isn't going to do much good if he only answers some of the question and refuses to answer others.......this is exactly why deals are made.And also why myself and many others have tried to explain to you why DA will not testify without one.
    That is not what likely happened. DA supposedly admitted to disposing of items he knew had evidentiary value. That is all we know really. From a legal perspective, a prosecutor could argue that he was also involved in everything else as well based on that. The argument would go along the lines (A) HB was abducted (provable based on considerable evidence); (B) DA placed himself at the scene by admitting to disposing of evidence; and (C) HB was found dead and her body dumped in the woods. Throw in other witnesses who might claim to have heard JA etc bragging about rape and/or anything DA might have previously said. That is all they would need to get a conviction.

    Also, there was no signing confessions or anything like that. IIRC, the affidavit for his first arrest said something along the lines of one officer hearing DA admitting it to disposing of evidence to another officer, in other words there is no record other than the personal testimony of the two officers involved. Charging DA with rape and murder along with the other two appears to be a tactic on the part of LE to pressure DA into playing according to their rules. Give him the potential to lose a lot (such as his freedom or even his life) to scare the hell out of him if he didn't play by their rules. IMO DA was clearly surprised and shocked that he was being charged too. He probably thought he was on the same team as them. It is sort of the same tactics they tried with the Pearcy brothers to extract the mythical video from them.

    The prosecution might have decided to charge him only now because the case looked like it was going south and they had to find a way to get it back on track. Originally DA was their star witness, but LE probably expected to find lots of corroboration in subsequent investigation. I doubt that they thought he was going to be a good witness, but they believed him anyway because he was telling them the things they wanted to hear. They most likely thought it was a slam dunk back then and believed they would wrap the case up quickly. When that apparently didn't happen and they were forced to stall, they had to find another route, and that route seems to involve developing a mechanism to pressure DA to become a reliable team player in their strategy rather than a potential loose canon.

  9. #9
    SteveS is offline Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tugela View Post
    The argument would go [yada yada yada]

    That is all they would need to get a conviction.
    Nope. You keep declaring that they can convict DA of a capital offense at their leisure, as if it is a certainty awaiting their arbitrary decision to accept it. But no one - not even LE - can definitively declare they have all they need for a conviction, with a smug self-assurance that it's a given as long as they argue it in this way or that.

    And imo you greatly overestimate the strength of a potential case against DA. It would be an extremely iffy case, if the only thing they can offer is his out-of-court statement, while his testimony in court under oath is that he was coerced and it wasn't as the state is saying, and the others the state is claiming he helped do such a crime have been exonerated in court. At that point they would be trying to tie him to acts by JA/ZA that the legal system says didn't happen.
    REMINDER: All my comments are IMO AFAIK
    All posts are offered imo and to the best of my knowledge.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tugela View Post
    That is not what likely happened. DA supposedly admitted to disposing of items he knew had evidentiary value. That is all we know really.
    Apparently you didn't read the material contained in the link

    http://www.tennessean.com/story/news...case/17251013/

    "The younger brother of the man accused of kidnapping and killing Decatur County woman Holly Bobo has now been charged with rape, along with previous tampering with evidence charges."

    http://www.tennessean.com/story/news...case/17251013/

    "The news release said that on Sept. 17, "Adams admitted to TBI agents that he was involved in the forcible rape of Holly Bobo on April 13, 2011, at the address of 235 Adams Lane in Holladay, TN, in Decatur County."

    I can't help you connect the dots any further then this..........it appears you are confusing his arrest for tampering with his rape charges.And I am not sure why you are unwilling to concede he admitted to rape.Especially since his admission of rape has been reported on all over the place.There are a number of articles where his relatives have claimed he was coerced and/or mislead by LE.

    I don't know what lead to his murder charges after Holly's remains were found but he was charged with rape way before that.Which I am not arguing what lead to his murder charges but it is 100% certain his own statement is what lead him to be charged with rape.


  11. #11
    SteveS is offline Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK etc
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    Chainsaw, while I mostly agree with what you are saying, indications are that DA signed no admission of rape. From the way I interpret the reporting of the charges and the affidavit used to support them, one LE guy asked him questions and the other said he heard an answer that was an admission of rape. So there's plenty of room for he-said she-said in the way we heard it, although the truth may be far less vague. All of that occurred in Sep 2014 after Holly's remains were found, and in Sep-Oct he was charged with the rape. When they redid ALL the charges for ALL the accused in May 2015, he had been included in everything including murder, but nothing that we know of had occurred in the interim other than perhaps a LE decision to proceed somewhat differently than before.
    REMINDER: All my comments are IMO AFAIK
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveS View Post
    Chainsaw, while I mostly agree with what you are saying, indications are that DA signed no admission of rape. From the way I interpret the reporting of the charges and the affidavit used to support them, one LE guy asked him questions and the other said he heard an answer that was an admission of rape. So there's plenty of room for he-said she-said in the way we heard it, although the truth may be far less vague. All of that occurred in Sep 2014 after Holly's remains were found, and in Sep-Oct he was charged with the rape. When they redid ALL the charges for ALL the accused in May 2015, he had been included in everything including murder, but nothing that we know of had occurred in the interim other than perhaps a LE decision to proceed somewhat differently than before.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/brother-...ng-holly-bobo/

    "Adams had already been charged with tampering with evidence in the case of Bobo, who was reported missing on April 13, 2011."

    I am aware that the tampering with evidence stemmed from something that was overheard .....but the tampering and rape charges are 2 separate events.It looks like he was charged with tampering and while being questioned about that is when he admitted to the rape,

    Can you post a link where it has been stated his rape admission was also only something overheard .....if so I will admit I was wrong.

    You are correct he was not charged with rape until after her remains were found.....but that was still well before he was charged with murder and is what I ment I just typed it out wrong.

    ***** DA signed something ******
    It could be just a witness statement that you yourself pointed out may have been only DA and SA a few pages back.I won't argue what he signed but IMO it could easily be an admission to rape.
    Something looks bad for him,otherwise family members wouldn't be so concerned and blaming LE for misconduct if all he signed was a witness statement or an admission to destroying some evidence.

  13. #13
    SteveS is offline Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK etc
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    1 All of the charges (first tampering, then rape, then murder) were subsequent to the Sep 2014 conversation between LE and DA that took place right after Holly's remains were found.

    2 But I have never heard any report that DA ever has signed any self-incriminating statement. Not on the tampering stuff, nor on anything else. Have you? If so, where and when?

    3 You said "It looks like he was charged with tampering and while being questioned about that is when he admitted to the rape" and I believed you have assumed a later conversation that no one ever claimed to have happened. Unless you have something I missed, either the rape charge flowed from the Sep 2014 conversation (that we were told happened), or from some conversation after that (that we might assume happened, but no one ever told us there was a later one).

    Of course, there could have been MANY conversations. But afaik, we have only been told there was the single incriminating conversation, we have never been told he confessed to anything in writing, and that conversation was related entirely as a he-said she-said story.
    REMINDER: All my comments are IMO AFAIK
    All posts are offered imo and to the best of my knowledge.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveS View Post
    1 All of the charges (first tampering, then rape, then murder) were subsequent to the Sep 2014 conversation between LE and DA that took place right after Holly's remains were found.

    2 But I have never heard any report that DA ever has signed any self-incriminating statement. Not on the tampering stuff, nor on anything else. Have you? If so, where and when?

    3 You said "It looks like he was charged with tampering and while being questioned about that is when he admitted to the rape" and I believed you have assumed a later conversation that no one ever claimed to have happened. Unless you have something I missed, either the rape charge flowed from the Sep 2014 conversation (that we were told happened), or from some conversation after that (that we might assume happened, but no one ever told us there was a later one).

    Of course, there could have been MANY conversations. But afaik, we have only been told there was the single incriminating conversation, we have never been told he confessed to anything in writing, and that conversation was related entirely as a he-said she-said story.
    #1.....DA wasn't charged with murder until May of 2015,Not to say they hadn't planed on charging him with murder but were in no hurry since he was already in custody......he was indicted for rape Oct 2014.

    #2.....DA's family members have claimed he signed papers but didn't even know what he signed.I feel certain he has signed something but as stated I will not argue what.

    #3....Here is where I may be wrong but will need some proof before I admit it.This is also where we are reading completely different things out of what little information is available.

    DA was arrested for tampering charges......can you link to that arresting document so I can read it.
    He was indicted for rape....I wish you could link to the transcript but know you can't....LOL

    I am aware that those tampering charges stemmed from some type of overheard statement.I have read this numerous times from different sources.But have not read the actual document although I have searched for it and can't find it.

    Now is where we differ greatly...........I believe he was being questioned about the tampering charges when he admitted to the rape.Could have been the same date,doesn't matter.But I have not seen anywhere that claims the rape admission was something overheard.

    If all we have is his arrest report for tampering,which I do believe would contain the overheard statement evidence..........why should I assume he was indicted at a later date for rape based on the same statement or evidence as his tampering charges?

    I have enjoyed this little debate about this certain subject today but without something for me to read myself to change my mind.I am just going to disagree and move on until more information is released.

  15. #15
    SteveS is offline Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK etc
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    1 Yeah, that's what I said

    2 "I feel certain he has signed something but as stated I will not argue what." ...Okay. I differ, as I never assume evidence exists, until it has been reliably reported to exist.

    3 a - "DA was arrested for tampering charges......can you link to that arresting document so I can read it." ...I have seen it and read it, online, but can't link you to it at this point. (I don't bookmark case articles.) Sorry.
    b - "He was indicted for rape....I wish you could link to the transcript but know you can't" ....I don't recall any case or court documents posted online re the rape indictment.
    c - "I believe he was being questioned about the tampering charges when he admitted to the rape. Could have been the same date, doesn't matter.But I have not seen anywhere that claims the rape admission was something overheard." ...I never assume evidence exists, until it has been reliably reported to exist. And then I only take is as what it is reported to be, and no more. (I have found that often there are lots of assumptions made about evidence that later prove to have been false.)
    Soooooo - A he-said she-said conversation was reported as the basis to get an arrest warrant in Sep 2014. Afaik no report was made between Sep 2014 and the hearing and formal charges in Oct 2014 of any additional conversation, statement, or justification. In light of the fact that this has been a LE group that loves to spotlight their evidence, I took the lack of anything new being mentioned as an indication that there was nothing new, and that this simply flowed from the same he-said she-said allegation.
    d - "why should I assume he was indicted at a later date for rape based on the same statement or evidence as his tampering charges?" ...You can read things as you wish, but I see no logical reason why there need be anything else, plus there was no mention of anything else. I never assume evidence exists, until it has been reliably reported to exist. And the timing fits logically as well. From start to finish, over the course of a few weeks, LE first hears (or claims to hear) something, they get an arrest warrant based on what they claim to have heard, they send it to the GJ, and then 3-4 weeks after the conversation he is formally charged in court based on a GJ indictment.
    REMINDER: All my comments are IMO AFAIK
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