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  1. #31
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    The article I linked to said that many more people are able to understand why someone would commit suicide, than they can understand those who make false confessions. But the emotional torture of reid is designed to cause a similar sense of inescapable desperation with no other way out. It is illegal in most European countries. Imo, it's a form of torture.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
    Imo, people should ask for an attorney the minute LE wants to question them, and stay silent from there on out. People mistakenly believe miranda is required before questioning, when in reality, it is only required when they're being arrested. LE actually counts on this, as they will try to get as much information out of the person as possible. If challenged, they can simply point out that the individual was free to leave at any time. Even though, said individual may not have felt they were.
    Agreed, I would never go into any sort of police questioning w.o an attorney, but then I've taken criminal and constitutional law classes and understand the limits of Miranda rights. You're right in pointing out it's probably a good idea to have an attorney present at any police questioning, but I think it would be especially crucial to ask for one once your Miranda rights are being read. IMO, I'd prefer to have some sort of statement similar to Miranda read as soon as questioning starts- even if you are free to leave, especially emphasizing anything you say can be used against you in a court of law. I feel that, in Brendan's case, he clearly did not understand that point.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephsb View Post
    Agreed, I would never go into any sort of police questioning w.o an attorney, but then I've taken criminal and constitutional law classes and understand the limits of Miranda rights. You're right in pointing out it's probably a good idea to have an attorney present at any police questioning, but I think it would be especially crucial to ask for one once your Miranda rights are being read. IMO, I'd prefer to have some sort of statement similar to Miranda read as soon as questioning starts- even if you are free to leave, especially emphasizing anything you say can be used against you in a court of law. I feel that, in Brendan's case, he clearly did not understand that point.
    I don't even think Brendan understood anything about a court of law, so he has no context to even understand anything that was going on. That's why a parent should have been present. It's as simple as that imo.

    Sadly, even Barb Janda would be likely convinced that he should talk without a lawyer. She asks about costs of public defenders, and seems to have some context by which you can tell she knows it'll cost money she doesn't have.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    I don't even think Brendan understood anything about a court of law, so he has no context to even understand anything that was going on. That's why a parent should have been present. It's as simple as that imo.

    Sadly, even Barb Janda would be likely convinced that he should talk without a lawyer. She asks about costs of public defenders, and seems to have some context by which you can tell she knows it'll cost money she doesn't have.
    I would like to see WI take measures to ensure any minor that is questioned by police have a parent present. It is clearly not enough to notify a parent, as both Brendan and Barb said it was not necessary for Barb to be in the room for the second 2/29 interview. It still shocks me that after knowing her brother had spent 18 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit, that Barb still allowed Brendan to talk to police w.o her being present. I can see Brendan having no context/understanding of the legal system, but surely Barb must have understood the potential harm the legal system could do to someone. Makes me think that she truly had no idea what Brendan was going to say, or even that he was a suspect, or I doubt she'd have left him in there w.o her being there. JMO

  5. #35
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    Or if not a parent, in the case that the parent is a suspect or something like that... maybe a state children's welfare agent or something? Someone who is an advocate for the minor child in some capacity.

  6. #36
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    I've read that it can actually be worse to have a parent present. LE snows the parent, and the parent pressures the minor too! (Even more effectively), Just be honest, tell them what they need to know ect...
    I would like to see a mandated GAL, a qualified mental health proffessional, or something of that nature required to be present.
    Last edited by Safeguard; 01-13-2016 at 09:04 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safeguard View Post
    I've read that it can actually be worse to have a parent present. LE snows the parent, and the parent pressures the minor too! (Even more effectively), Just be honest, tell them what they need to know ect...
    I would like to see a mandated GAL, a qualified mental health proffessional, or something of that nature required to be present.
    Except we have also seen many cases where these people work lock-in-step with authorities. I honestly think this should go one GIANT step forward and make it mandatory that any minors be represented by at the very least a public defender as well as a parent's presence. Although, we see how great a public defender can be (ahem....Kuchinsksy!)

    ETA: I also think that it is important that a minor is not only represented by a public defender prior to questioning, he should be allowed a private meeting with the public defender to discuss the case, be completely advised of his rights, etc... But the problem is that many crimes are "solved" because of testimony from extremely vulnerable kids. They sing like canaries! They will turn on their very best friends if it means getting out of trouble. Remember what Ralphie did to poor Schwartz?
    Everything I post without a supporting link is always JMO.

  8. #38
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    Tennessee state rep, Mike Sparks, files a bill inspired by MAM, requiring juveniles be questioned in the presence of parents, guardian, ect...

    http://wkrn.com/2016/01/12/making-a-...-in-tennessee/

    " I get calls from parents all the time saying my son was interviewed at school by a police officer, isn't that against the law. Don't I have the right to be there?Under the existing laws, you dont."

  9. #39
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    Brendan Dassey and False Confessions

    I love the idea of a advocate for the child- be it mental health, a welfare agent, or someone of that nature.

    I'm a little bit wary of using a public defender because there are a lot of children who go into interviews and are never going to be considered suspects, and don't really need an attorney, and public defenders are underpaid and overworked the way it is. The benefit, however, is that the attorney would be the only person in the room who could give "legal advice". An advocate or mental health professional can't tell you it's time for an attorney, nor can LE, nor can they tell you you don't need one, because both are considered legal advice. So it that regard, having a public defender in the room would be the best idea probably.

    I think the problem is that we use Miranda with children, and I don't think children understand the meaning of it like adults do. I would love to see a different standard used for children, where they are explained further, so LE can feel certain they do understand.

    Lastly, I think investigators need to deal w. Children differently than adults. They should not be allowed to make promises they know they cannot keep to them. When you are telling a child "you need to tell us the truth, we will back you up, we'll go to the prosecutor and make sure he knows what a good person you are, we believe in you, we'll make sure your taken care of" you are making promises you can't keep (LE officers have no control over what is prosecuted, or what they are prosecuted for) and while most adults would be able to see that immediately, to a child, this is LE, who children are taught to trust- why would they lie to them, they are the good guys. I think this has a lot to do with why Brendan confessed to some of the things he did


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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    I don't even think Brendan understood anything about a court of law, so he has no context to even understand anything that was going on. That's why a parent should have been present. It's as simple as that imo.

    Sadly, even Barb Janda would be likely convinced that he should talk without a lawyer. She asks about costs of public defenders, and seems to have some context by which you can tell she knows it'll cost money she doesn't have.
    Actually, what Barb Janda said was that she had already asked for a public defender prior to the March 1st interview (she never mention when exactly or for who) but she was turned down because she owned a home. Fassbender or Weigert told her she could try again now because there are different financial criteria for someone charged with murder.

    Maybe there should be a change in criteria that any child under the age of 18 is entitled to a public defender regardless of the parent's ability to pay when being questioned/interviewed regarding any crime.


  11. #41
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    Dr. Phil tells Nancy Grace; "I could have gotten Brendan Dassey to confess to the Irish Potato Famine"
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3m...angama-com_fun

    Nancy is her horrible self, of course, but I found it very telling that near the end of the interview she admits SA was wrongfully convicted of the rape, and says that Gregory Allen probably went on to rape again. That tells you how little she actually researched the whole thing. We who did, know he went on to rape again.
    Last edited by Safeguard; 01-17-2016 at 05:57 PM.

  12. #42
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    For the most part, I can't really stand Dr Phil but that man has some one liners that are just pure gold.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Safeguard View Post
    Dr. Phil tells Nancy Grace; "I could have gotten Brendan Dassey to confess to the Irish Potato Famine"
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3m...angama-com_fun

    Nancy is her horrible self, of course, but I found it very telling that near the end of the interview she admits SA was wrongfully convicted of the rape, and says that Gregory Allen probably went on to rape again. That tells you how little she actually researched the whole thing. We who did, know he went on to rape again.
    I believe Nancy Grace also mentions the cut on Steven Avery's POINTER finger. I am pretty sure that it was his middle finger...
    So just another fact Nancy Grace has no idea about.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticJynx View Post
    I believe Nancy Grace also mentions the cut on Steven Avery's POINTER finger. I am pretty sure that it was his middle finger...
    So just another fact Nancy Grace has no idea about.
    Generally speaking Nancy Grace typically has no clue what she's talking about unless it's prosecutorial misconduct. She has first hand knowledge of that.

  15. #45
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    seen this on reddit and thought some of you might find this interesting/helpful, it lists some of the inconsistencies with excerpts from the transcripts in chronological order.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd...stencies_made/

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