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  1. #46
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    You know what I just realized about this whole thing for me. I only heard about the entire thing a week ago and finished the doc a couple of days ago.

    Should be pretty clean did a quick spell check !!

    And everyone is talking about how she was tied up raped, slit etc etc. And that just never registered to me. I think she was shot, only.

    Then I realized that the reason why that thought process is present for me is that all the other stuff (rape tied tortured stabbed hair cut etc etc ) is because it came from Brandon.

    As a therapist, (who has worked with LD children) as I was watching his interrogation, it was just so "lead". That is how they function. If you carefully watch his intonation throughout the integration's the responses come from as as questions not statements from Branden.

    You must , despite his size , listen and watch him as a little 5 year old. The only place all this rape and torture was from randen. Developmentally that is around when he slowed Those IQ numbers typically result in around a 5-6 year old functionality.

    So, for me from then on none of the tying up, slashed, etc etc registered. The only thing we do KNOW , is a bullet or two in her skull.

    I don't think any of the other stuff occurred at all. Would a five year old know how to rape someone?? All those "guesses" came only from Branden .

    They process very concretely just like a child. I have it on in background.

    Officer : "Its ok we are going to help you through this"

    . He then rubs his knee.
    He later stated, that he believed , if he said what they wanted him to he could go home. That is reasonable processing for an individual with this IQ level.

    Officer "Tell us what happened." A high functioning individual would know that they are being questioned about a murder

    Branden responds with (concrete) "I was outside riding my bike". Again congruent with concrete info processing , that is what he was doing and what he thought the question was asking.

    Another piece they are asking him about the stab wound. His answer is "there was blood".

    Then" was it wet or dry". His guess (safe in the middle) "damp" - if I tell them what I should I can go home.

    Cops asking a witness if a stab wound is wet or dry clearly indicate that these two guys totally knew they were dealing with an unreliable child. Would an adult ask another adult if a stab wound was wet or dry?

    How many times did he stab her. "Lots" again if I can guess what the "correct " answer is ..................

    Them "What else did he do to her, we all ready know" .
    " Else " in and of itself implies "more". Long pause "raped her" then "I don't know where tho"

    Then one says "Branden were you there when this happened?" And he answers "No". Time for another knee pat.

    Some more reassurance "we are gonna help you through this" (reminded me of a parent talking to a child getting a shot)

    He is then asked "how he knows this", and he replays from the beginning (just like children do) "I was out riding my bike"....clearly indicating he has no clue where he or the guys are in terms of the dialog.

    a bit later "what did you do", again goes completely off topic and restarts again -" I was going down the driveway to get the mail". Completely off topic.

    Then "what you do"? restarts again , "I went to get the mail and went into the house".

    Then what - again very concrete - he was asked "then what" and he tells them "I sat down watched tv".That is probably true that is what he did.

    Again a functioning individual would be cognizant than when a cop is asking "then what", in a murder investigation -- they are not concretely asking "then what", but are asking for clarification about what we are talking about - a murder.

    They then repeat everything they told him to say , and got him to say, to try and get him back on track.

    "Where is her vehicle". A functioning person would respond with more than "by big trees"

    He is now lost again, they have to repeat the story they got him to mumble , another effort to get him back on track

    They try again "what did you do" -- back to concrete "I went into the garage to put the bike away"

    No idea what is being discussed.

    "I went into the house and sat down". Again guys, clearly indicative that there is absolutely no understanding whatsoever about what is happening. Zero.

    They repeat what that got him to say again. "I went in and watched TV for a little bit" Clueless

    When asked again to proceed :

    "My mom came home" and they , again ask and "then what"

    his reply " she asked me if anyone got the mail"

    If anyone goes back and plays any of it , and visulize a sall 5 year child answering would any one "beleive" any of the aanswrs - I think not!

    The kid is so lost, the cop then gives him a dogie bone by telling him that he thinks they are "pretty close" to the truth.

    "give us parts we don't have yet" . They then engage in a whole piece of giving him hints what they want him to say next

    another knee pat "you mentioned earlier that he threatened you" his answer " he said he would stab me" again concrete- any of us would have , in context, would have said something akin to he said he would kill me if i said anything.

    I can't imagine someone threatening me by giving me "modality" of their intent to kill me! (Stab)

    petting him again "I think we are close to the truth" - they then have to recap , again,what they got him to mumble earlier.

    They throw a couple of suggestions, he finally bit on the last option, "I went over there", "You went inside didnt you".

    "where was she?" "in a room" this is where he makes up the handcuffed to the bed...."was she making any noises" long pause "yeh " "what was she saying "

    they now have to start all over ....and start him back on his bike...

    they now lead him through everything again this takes a while he has no idea what is going on

    now the cop is getting testy tells him "we cant keep going back"

    they have to start all over at the mail box. He is responding to the scolding about having to go back -- he is trying to string a couple of sentences together one after the other --- he manages to do so for a bit but resorts to one or two word responses.

    He is mentally wiped out - back to long pauses............he goes into getting a soda and is asked again "what next "and he replies "I opened it".

    a few more good boys

    "then what" (this now is after SA had raped tortured tied fought and murdered another human being and Branden says that SA wants to know if he "wants to have a girlfriend". Just silly.

    What adult is going to be concerned about a kids relationship wishes in the middle of a murder?

    they then tease out the rape by Branden.. this takes some time...he describes going in the room ..... they go back again telling him what they got him to say about being chained up..... and asked him about the "color" of handcuffs . His answer, "regular ones "


    they start over again

    "we know we know we know"

    "What did you do" "I did nothing" they tell him that is not true several times.....

    badger on "where are her clothes.".....

    some mumbling i cant understand

    intervention offer him a coke

    clearly they can tell the child is having a rough time so they take a break

    I am getting tired and upset by them abusing this poor child for their own greedy needs it upsets me - and the reality here is without Brendens hand crafted "confession" from LE SA probably would not have been charged. Disgusts me ..

    What I watched on the tape is exactly how a child suffering with delayed development responds to probes --it is how they process information.

    What repulses me, as a human being , is there is no way those cops could not grasp that there "subject" was not processing information or situation, but proceeded.

    But the real nausating notion about this whole mess is that the system used his respones .

    That was one of the main deals in helping parents address their child's deficiencies is helping the parent to understand the differences between how the child is processing info requests (clean your room vs pick up shoe- nice and concrete - chance of compliance increases if the child knows exactly what behavior you are trying to elicit.

    "Behave"- a functionial child knows what that entails. A delayed child does not. Please talk a little softer is far more meaningful than "behave".

    "Calm down" vs "Honey, will you come over here and sit down right in this chair " Again compliance more likly if the delayed person has a chance to grasp the directive being given.

    If you watch him during the break totally oblivious to the situation - totally ....sad


    Last edited by CARIIS; 01-18-2016 at 07:54 PM.

  2. #47
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    Brendon referenced when asked about how he came up with this reference Kiss The Girls

    Kiss the Girls is a mystery/thriller tale of obsessive kidnapping and murder. Casanova, a serial killer and kidnapper, has killed several women in the vicinity of the University of North Carolina. In addition to the girls that have been killed, several others are missing. Among the missing girls is the niece of renowned detective Alex Cross. Cross, through his connections at the FBI, is allowed to work on the case. The killer seems to have a taste for extremely beautiful women and is known for his near perfect crimes.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurd..._during_trial/

  3. #48
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    To me in this piece it looks as if they are trying to follow each other in "what to say"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeuJH9v9o7g


  4. #49
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    did quicki spell check !

    Although
    there is nothing funny about any of this, try to visualize the following in a "Beverly Hillbillies" mode ! For those of youth a hit sitcom years ago about country bumpkins!

    The "tone" , however, actually fits in with the absurdity of how the situation played out in terms of what we have been left with.

    On that day you got two hicks cruising around on golf carts shooting aimlessly around a junk yard.

    From my perspective going hunting on golf cars is an oxymoron in and of itself ! Golf, for the rich, quiet and leisurely in stark contrast to the bombastic nature of firing off big ole rifles, with bullets ricocheting off dead metal cars. Yeee Hawww Yaa All - hit the gas.

    I wonder if she was out in the yard taking pics and was struck by a stray bullet . This explains the absence of any blood in trailer or garage.

    They then had a problem. dead woman. So they do what any country folks would do - you burn it. Problem solved.


    That basic scenario fills in all sorts of stuff. We all agree that collecitily this is not gene pool riddled with intelligence.

    So we have all these "minds" figuring out how to cover it up. Mix the IQ equation, with 48 beers and some whiskey and our planning skills erode with the passage of time !

    So the gang is problem solving around the ole bonfire. Ok Billie Jean Ray Bop you go hide the car. Beer in hand off he goes. He finds the easiest parking spot on the lot and whips her right on in there.

    Bob Bobby Bobby comes running up exclaiming that he has to hide the car. After downing another Bud he moves a tree over, rubs his hands together and says "there".

    Forgetting to cover up the large lettered RAV4 tire cover is well , just Avery.

    Meanwhile back at the bonfire, Jimmy Jo Jo is frantically running up with her cell phone in had screaming I got her phone. Billy Ray tells Papa Jo to just throw it in the barrel we will burn in later.

    We have a bunch of family members scarring all about , opps a bone, toss it there.

    Its perfect - its Halloween and from I have gathered, in them there parts, bonfires and Halloween have some correlation.

    Sort of like two worlds collide, family covering accidental shooting, cops have perfect setup and poof here we are

    Low IQ does not imply stupid - impacts judgment ! In them there parts what cha do with stuff ya don't want ? Golly keepers you burn it that's what cha a do.

    This is also helps align this magical password guessing nonsense. Panic - the room ate isn't exactly a LE lover, so he has the password (not unlikly in roomate scenario) . We got all these folks running around trying to hide an accidental killing.

    The Ex is sly and manipulative I by golla betcha he off erred to help out if some of that civil suit $ would walk right on a over into his back account

    His sales pitch if you will would be we need to know if anyone knows she was here - the gang would by that. Makes sense , lets try to see who she called who called her so we can see if LE would even know if she was on our property.

    Roomate is "likely" to join in the fray - he has some explaining to do as to why he did nothing about a roommates that vanished days ago, and is now deceased.

    In the midst of this large gathering of the Three Musketeers, running frantically all about Branden hears, or sees some of this chaos, throwing in some of the book he stated he used to fill in some of the blanks, and "stuff" starts to fall in place.

    This also helps with the EX role, (something fishy here ) . He is brighter than most of the other characters, so it would be congruent that members of the clan would "Follow" his notions, with the passage of time and the emergence of a huge LE presences on-property. He would take lead for the gang, and he is a fast talker so the the rest of the gang would be inclined to "listen" to him. Explains his role later in the situation.

    .


    The tag call in and the lab lady notes about putting him there clearly indicate LE MO. This angle also eliminates the "road block" of LE actually committing a murder. It is more like in this scenario , LE being "given" an opportunity to to halt the civil suit.


    Pulling the battery cable only makes some sense in the context of this gangs conclusion that "we gotta make the car dead" - plausible with abundance of "Thinking" power on the scene.

    Sounds silly I know. But if you pull back , and lin up our cast of characters, all living next to each other, with serried histories, throw in a deceased person, the need to hide it, the excitability of the group some Bud Light, the future possibility of more money than any of them has inexperienced, the history of backstabbing - it actually isnt as crazy as it might sound.

    If you roll with me the notion that these folks believed that the "no car no body" would "end" the problem it makes sense.

    Now, LE has been handed a gem in terms of their need to stop the civil suit - and BAM we got what we got..............

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawny View Post
    I am appalled that there aren't laws in place to protect literal children from the aggressive tactics used against them in interrogation.

    He was fed literally every piece of "evidence" and led through lines of questions until he "correctly guessed". He was guessing what he thought they wanted to hear. I can't understand, personally, how anyone could watch those tapes and feel good about that investigation. JMO!
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/new...ply&p=12283452


    me either just as a human being - its a sad indiciment on humanity - its child abuse -what a horrible set of circumstances - for this kid to get that schuck lawyer - no lawyer would let there client be intergated for god kows how long but to let a disabiled child
    is
    disgusting (bold wont go off!)

    When I was watching , I got so confused with that guy Brendons schuck hired , the jerk who made him draw stuff and confess, i was so lost what was happening made no sense.

    Now I understand his role (disgusting) but I do not understand how that guy is not in some issues with his crdentialing boards?

    It is not ethical, and there should be action taken - you do not exlpoit the mentally delayed

    If Brendon looked , like the 5 year old he was , this would have never flown. Poor Brendon. the whole thing stinks, and the sad reality is this happens 24/7 -- substitude poor for disability and your in.

    But on a humanity level that is the real sadness - those people are evil IMO - how they sleep at night who knows


    i do find some comfort that the doc is blowing up. SA is in, it may help Branden ( after 9 years) but my delicious fantasy is I hope all those particpants in this charade, are experiecing a whole heap of stress--I do think the doc will open up looking at what they all did

    now we have to be real - will anything really happen to any of those nasty folks , nah, but i shiver in delight at just the thoufht of all of them being under "investigation" just for the sheer anxiety they will experince not knowing if something may happen to them legally!

    cant wait! There is too much going on since the doc, just politcally, someone will grab this (its reelection time ding ding ding ding) will that be a joke sure but you all deserve too go through something exhausting after what you all did to a child.


    wish it will start already, but the groundswell is here lets go already start the charade.......

    like the prosec sexting, if I did that with a client of mine I would, corretly have my liscnese pulled - this dude was put in timeout for 4 months Does not matter that it was afterwards - it show moral compass which he certainly (any of them) did not seem in possession of


    Disgracefull, IMO

    hey they say Karma.............

  6. #51
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    Did you ever see documentary Cash for Kids?? Anyway our Judical system is not broken, it blew up, exploded, it's gone. What about two juveniles in jail for murder? They spent 40 years in AL. They finally got released. I could go on and on how our system is broken with corruption.

    I wonder how much money this Manitowoc County Sheriffs Department got paid in overtime.
    Last edited by trigger; 01-19-2016 at 02:02 PM.
    The World Has Gone Mad.

  7. #52
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    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4y0t2dhups...12006.PDF?dl=0
    Exhibit 209 & 210 BDs garage & yard drawing 03012006

  8. #53
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    Brendan Dassey Psych Eval - 2006 November 15

    Excerpt added from above:

    In summary, the present interview results, tests results, and review of collateral data show that Brendan is somewhat intellectually limited, passive, anxious, avoidant, and reserved. If he is presented with leading questions during an interview and/or presented with interrogative pressure, his personality, as shown by interview data, behavior during the police interview and interview by the present psychologist, research regarding adolescents and suggestibility, and current test data, is very susceptible to suggestibility.

    Comment: Not one single thing in this report, to include the conclusion, is even remotely surprising.
    Last edited by shadowraiths; 01-20-2016 at 05:13 AM. Reason: added excerpt



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  9. #54
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    Agreed, the psych report actually convinced me even more that there was no way Brendan did any of this. He in no way fits the personality of a brutal killer. I don't think he was being purposefully deceptive or attempting to mislead the investigators, I think the way he acted in the videos was his personality. He's shy, anxious around new people, passive, and not attention-seeking. Most interesting to me was the lack of anger in his personality, and his avoidance of social situations, especially confrontational ones. This was important to me for two reasons:

    1) Someone who is non-confrontational is going to do terribly in a police interrogation. He has an avoidant personality, and how does he avoid conflict with the authorities? By giving them what they want. Someone who is attempting to avoid a confrontational situation is going to say what they think they need to to end the social interaction. This is exactly what Brendan appeared to be trying to do.

    2) People who have low levels of anger and tend to be passive, reserved, and non-confrontational are not your typical rapists and murderers, particularly when taking into consideration this rape involved someone else watching, and a girl he didn't know in extreme distress. Brendan definitely appears to have issues with social anxiety, and i have a hard time seeing someone who dreads giving presentations in class being involved in a rape where another party is watching him.

    I'd also like to add that someone with no criminal record rarely jumps to first degree murder and sexual assault.

    Brendan appeared to me like a shy, impressionable, reserved, and anxious teenager. He seems to have some social anxiety, but otherwise seems like a pretty normal kid, albeit shy and somewhat intellectually challenged kid- his main stressors are school presentations and a breakup, he consumes wine coolers a few times a year. He not popular, but does have friends. In no way do I see someone like this committing the crime he is said to have committed. I can't imagine it, not at all.


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  10. #55
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    Interesting comment by a redditor.

    Was Drendan Dassey's audio interview tampered with? Something weird happened right before Brendan "Confessed"

    ALL noise cuts out, including room tone and ambient sounds.
    Look at this image of the Waveform lines. You don't need to be an audio expert to understand this..
    ==>> http://i.imgur.com/Ij209XK.png
    Just look at the waveform lines, they go completely FLAT!
    This is impossible if the mic is still plugged in and working fine. It actually appears like the tape recorder was turned off then turned back on.
    I find this odd for two reasons...

    Comment: Timing is everything. In fact, I was reviewing Dassey's confession and noticed the taped interview inconsistencies... how he suddenly starts talking about body parts, that sort of thing. While I had not yet checked the raw audio, this post caught my eye. If these LEOs were disabling the recorder, to... whatever... that goes against their very own, though, recent at the time, law regarding interviewing minors. Anyway, figured I'd post this, just in case anyone else wants to check it out, too.



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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
    Interesting comment by a redditor.

    Was Drendan Dassey's audio interview tampered with? Something weird happened right before Brendan "Confessed"

    ALL noise cuts out, including room tone and ambient sounds.
    Look at this image of the Waveform lines. You don't need to be an audio expert to understand this..
    ==>> http://i.imgur.com/Ij209XK.png
    Just look at the waveform lines, they go completely FLAT!
    This is impossible if the mic is still plugged in and working fine. It actually appears like the tape recorder was turned off then turned back on.
    I find this odd for two reasons...

    Comment: Timing is everything. In fact, I was reviewing Dassey's confession and noticed the taped interview inconsistencies... how he suddenly starts talking about body parts, that sort of thing. While I had not yet checked the raw audio, this post caught my eye. If these LEOs were disabling the recorder, to... whatever... that goes against their very own, though, recent at the time, law regarding interviewing minors. Anyway, figured I'd post this, just in case anyone else wants to check it out, too.
    Ok so I read all three transcripts yesterday, I didn't watch the video because I saw enough during the documentary. I noticed a distinct difference in the first two interrogation locations than the third. Can anyone verify what I saw? I basically saw a LD child who had no clue and did not know how to answer the questions during the first two transcripts. For instance, long pauses, repeating himself going off topic or just no answers given. But by the third location and interview a concise and to the point narrative about the torture, murder and disposal of TH. Did anyone see the difference?? I have to honestly question if those responses came from him. Does he completely change demeanor?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justiceseeker35 View Post
    Ok so I read all three transcripts yesterday, I didn't watch the video because I saw enough during the documentary. I noticed a distinct difference in the first two interrogation locations than the third. Can anyone verify what I saw? I basically saw a LD child who had no clue and did not know how to answer the questions during the first two transcripts. For instance, long pauses, repeating himself going off topic or just no answers given. But by the third location and interview a concise and to the point narrative about the torture, murder and disposal of TH. Did anyone see the difference?? I have to honestly question if those responses came from him. Does he completely change demeanor?
    The first one was done at his school. The second two were done at the police station. There was another untaped interview at the Fox Hill Resort (hotel room) between the two interviews at the police station.

  13. #58
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    Here is a case of two men who spent 30 years in prison, one on death row, the other serving a life sentence, before their convictions were vacated. Imho, this case is reminiscent of Dassey's case (e.g, confessions of mentally challenged teens, but no physical evidence to tie them to crime).

    State v McCollum (opinion)

    This, btw, is why I have little hope that Brendan will be granted a new trial, much less, have his conviction vacated. Why? Because the above case turned on DNA evidence that excluded the two boys, while inculpating a serial sex offender.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinsaint View Post
    The first one was done at his school. The second two were done at the police station. There was another untaped interview at the Fox Hill Resort (hotel room) between the two interviews at the police station.
    Seriously? maybe that's when they read him "kiss the girls" to help refresh his memory.

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    You only have to listen to the 1st interview to believe this kid made up everything he said. About seeing TH at the property, Brendan had 3 different answers.

    1. That he didn't see her at all as he and Blaine got off the school bus
    2. That he saw her leave and he/Blaine had to move off the road as she drove away
    3. That he saw her talking to Steven and then drive away

    Just those inconsistencies alone tell me we have a 16-year-old that will make anything up to get the police to leave him alone.

    And then toss in the whopper of the rape/murder in SA's trailer with no supporting DNA and it's a wrap. I wonder if Brendan had a history
    of lying or making up stories with his family ? If so, the defense team should have called Barb as a witness to confirm.

    DEFENDANT IS A LIAR + DEFENDANT'S KID GOES MISSING + DEFENDANT REPORTS KID MISSING AFTER 31 DAYS + KID IS FOUND DEAD = DEFENDANT KILLED KID

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