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  1. #1
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    The Key: Planted or Not? Impact?

    It's been over two years since I've posted, probably. I actually did the opposite as most people in this case, as I researched and read up on the case prior to watching the documentary. I'll start by saying I'm very pro cop. I used to be a correctional nurse, and I watched tons of inmates take advantage of the system, treat LE like crap, and complain about how unfair their sentences are. I went into the documentary fully expecting to hate Steven Avery and have no question of his guilt. I'm an animal lover, and the cat burning had me seeing red. (Yes, I admit to being someone who would lose their minds if someone harmed any of my animals!) I came out of the research and viewing of the show on the fence.

    My problem is simple. The darn key. Kratz made some bs comment about the fact that even if you believe the key was planted, it shouldn't matter. (I don't remember the exact quote, but the gist.) He's wrong. As soon as you believe the key "may" have been planted, you begin to question what other evidence could be tampered with. That's my reasonable doubt. Sadly, SA may be guilty, I just don't know what we can trust from the poisoned evidence. This makes me sad and angry for Teresa's family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ferretnurse View Post
    It's been over two years since I've posted, probably. I actually did the opposite as most people in this case, as I researched and read up on the case prior to watching the documentary. I'll start by saying I'm very pro cop. I used to be a correctional nurse, and I watched tons of inmates take advantage of the system, treat LE like crap, and complain about how unfair their sentences are. I went into the documentary fully expecting to hate Steven Avery and have no question of his guilt. I'm an animal lover, and the cat burning had me seeing red. (Yes, I admit to being someone who would lose their minds if someone harmed any of my animals!) I came out of the research and viewing of the show on the fence.

    My problem is simple. The darn key. Kratz made some bs comment about the fact that even if you believe the key was planted, it shouldn't matter. (I don't remember the exact quote, but the gist.) He's wrong. As soon as you believe the key "may" have been planted, you begin to question what other evidence could be tampered with. That's my reasonable doubt. Sadly, SA may be guilty, I just don't know what we can trust from the poisoned evidence. This makes me sad and angry for Teresa's family.
    So, let's say that LE somehow planted the key. Does this make all the other evidence against him moot? Could it be possible that he did kill Teresa but, just to be certain, someone in law enforcement decided to plant a key? Yes, that's horrible. But, for me, it doesn't make the rest of the evidence against him just go away...it just doesn't.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
    So, let's say that LE somehow planted the key. Does this make all the other evidence against him moot? Could it be possible that he did kill Teresa but, just to be certain, someone in law enforcement decided to plant a key? Yes, that's horrible. But, for me, it doesn't make the rest of the evidence against him just go away...it just doesn't.
    For me yes it does. Planted evidence is in and of itself reasonable doubt. It calls all other evidence into question because how can we know that hasn't been planted or tampered with as well.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
    So, let's say that LE somehow planted the key. Does this make all the other evidence against him moot? Could it be possible that he did kill Teresa but, just to be certain, someone in law enforcement decided to plant a key? Yes, that's horrible. But, for me, it doesn't make the rest of the evidence against him just go away...it just doesn't.
    Actually, my point is, it kind of does. If I see the key as planted, I start questioning the blood, the "sweat DNA", the movement of the bones, etc. I start wondering what's true and what isn't. I hate that he may be guilty, but the planting of the key made me question all of the evidence that pointed directly at SA.

    You have no idea how angry it makes me that they thought they could "help" ensure a conviction. They may let a murderer walk free because of it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferretnurse View Post
    Actually, my point is, it kind of does. If I see the key as planted, I start questioning the blood, the "sweat DNA", the movement of the bones, etc. I start wondering what's true and what isn't. I hate that he may be guilty, but the planting of the key made me question all of the evidence that pointed directly at SA.

    You have no idea how angry it makes me that they thought they could "help" ensure a conviction. They may let a murderer walk free because of it.
    Except there's not actually proof the key was planted. The series exaggerates how long it was before the key was actually found.

    "Apparently the key was found on the sixth entry into the trailer, but it was only the second general search of the trailer after the first search was called off due to the rain and late hour. So it was technically found in the first 3.5 hours of searching for general physical evidence."

    Read more here:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3zr9nv/information_on_the_searches_of_averys_trailer_and/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuther87 View Post
    Except there's not actually proof the key was planted. The series exaggerates how long it was before the key was actually found.

    "Apparently the key was found on the sixth entry into the trailer, but it was only the second general search of the trailer after the first search was called off due to the rain and late hour. So it was technically found in the first 3.5 hours of searching for general physical evidence."

    Read more here:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3zr9nv/information_on_the_searches_of_averys_trailer_and/
    While I do believe it is quite possible it was planted, I don't have nearly as much concern with how long it took them to find it than WHO found it, the fact that it didn't have any of Teresa's DNA on it, and it seemed to be a valet key with no other keys on it.
    Everything I post without a supporting link is always JMO.

  7. #7
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    Madeleine74 is online now Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
    So, let's say that LE somehow planted the key. Does this make all the other evidence against him moot? Could it be possible that he did kill Teresa but, just to be certain, someone in law enforcement decided to plant a key? Yes, that's horrible. But, for me, it doesn't make the rest of the evidence against him just go away...it just doesn't.
    Yes exactly! Notice how those who allege planting say it would be easy for cops to plant TH's key. Okay then... where did the cops get TH's key from in order to plant it? Remember TH had possession of her own car key that day, the cops did not. TH's key and key fob was not in her own SUV when it was found parked and obscured. So where was this magical key that police obtained in order to plant it in SA's bedroom? When logic has to be applied to these conspiracy arguments, there are crickets chirping because many do not think it all the way through (or back).

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuchess View Post
    While I do believe it is quite possible it was planted, I don't have nearly as much concern with how long it took them to find it than WHO found it, the fact that it didn't have any of Teresa's DNA on it, and it seemed to be a valet key with no other keys on it.

    I want to address one thing about Colborn and Lenk.

    From the start, the series makes it seem like Colborn and Lenk are villains and have a lot to lose from the lawsuit (in reality, this is not true at all- they are not named in the suit and everyone has already been cleared of any criminal wrongdoing).

    Then later on they find the key, and you think to yourself, "What are the odds! These guys have all the motive and they're the ones to find the key!"

    The truth of the matter is that they're the ones who found the key, therefore they're the ones who the filmmakers/defense choose to portray as villains with a motive.

    This is one way the series tricks you and so many others.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Yes exactly! Notice how those who allege planting say it would be easy for cops to plant TH's key. Okay then... where did the cops get TH's key from in order to plant it? Remember TH had possession of her own car key that day, the cops did not. TH's key and key fob was not in her own SUV when it was found parked and obscured. So where was this magical key that police obtained in order to plant it in SA's bedroom? When logic has to be applied to these conspiracy arguments, there are crickets chirping because many do not think it all the way through (or back).
    I am not sold that the key they found was the one she used that day. It was the valet key, in other words, a spare. Her DNA wasn't even on it. They could have gotten it on the sly from someone who may have had access to it that thought it might help to bolster the case. It's really too bad that the cop responsible for finding it just so happened to be Lenk. Oh...and Colburn was there too. Sorry....neither of those guys should have ever been allowed anywhere near this investigation, let alone finding evidence.
    Everything I post without a supporting link is always JMO.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferretnurse View Post
    It's been over two years since I've posted, probably. I actually did the opposite as most people in this case, as I researched and read up on the case prior to watching the documentary. I'll start by saying I'm very pro cop. I used to be a correctional nurse, and I watched tons of inmates take advantage of the system, treat LE like crap, and complain about how unfair their sentences are. I went into the documentary fully expecting to hate Steven Avery and have no question of his guilt. I'm an animal lover, and the cat burning had me seeing red. (Yes, I admit to being someone who would lose their minds if someone harmed any of my animals!) I came out of the research and viewing of the show on the fence.

    My problem is simple. The darn key. Kratz made some bs comment about the fact that even if you believe the key was planted, it shouldn't matter. (I don't remember the exact quote, but the gist.) He's wrong. As soon as you believe the key "may" have been planted, you begin to question what other evidence could be tampered with. That's my reasonable doubt. Sadly, SA may be guilty, I just don't know what we can trust from the poisoned evidence. This makes me sad and angry for Teresa's family.
    Thanks for posting...I am very pro LE under normal circumstances, however in this case I am appalled by them and their actions.

    Thanks for posting...I actually very pro LE
    ~ shine on you crAzy diamond ~ Pink Floyd, Wish You Were Here


  11. #11
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    Madeleine74 is online now Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    For those who want to believe Lenk and/or Colburn planted TH's car key & fob in SA's bedroom, can you please explain exactly where they got TH's key to plant? TH was in possession of her own car key. Said key was not in her SUV after she disappeared. So where was this magical key that Lenk and/or Colburn obtained in order to plant it?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    For those who want to believe Lenk and/or Colburn planted TH's car key & fob in SA's bedroom, can you please explain exactly where they got TH's key to plant? TH was in possession of her own car key. Said key was not in her SUV after she disappeared. So where was this magical key that Lenk and/or Colburn "planted?"
    Maybe they found it when they found the SUV. Maybe it was in her apartment when they went there to question the roommate. Maybe it was in the glove compartment. *shrug*

    It has NONE of Teresa's DNA on it. Not even the fabric part, as far as I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuchess View Post
    I am not sold that the key they found was the one she used that day. It was the valet key, in other words, a spare. Her DNA wasn't even on it. They could have gotten it on the sly from someone who may have had access to it that thought it might help to bolster the case. It's really too bad that the cop responsible for finding it just so happened to be Lenk. Oh...and Colburn was there too. Sorry....neither of those guys should have ever been allowed anywhere near this investigation, let alone finding evidence.
    Saying they "could have" gotten her spare valet key (which just so happened to have the exact same fob on it that her sister testified she gave to her months before, and that TH used all the time) does not tell us how they got it, who they got it from, or when, or where. There needs to be some evidence to point to beyond "well they could'a").

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuchess View Post
    I am not sold that the key they found was the one she used that day. It was the valet key, in other words, a spare. Her DNA wasn't even on it. They could have gotten it on the sly from someone who may have had access to it that thought it might help to bolster the case. It's really too bad that the cop responsible for finding it just so happened to be Lenk. Oh...and Colburn was there too. Sorry....neither of those guys should have ever been allowed anywhere near this investigation, let alone finding evidence.
    This. News conferences stating that MC had no involvement accept to provide equipment, and there they are searching the suspect's home.

    The public is supposed to trust that LE is going to do the honest thing. If you can't trust the case they're presenting, it's a huge problem.

    BTW, I don't think the bullet should have been included in evidence. Every scientist I know would have invalidated the test after she contaminated the control. It's too bad she used the whole sample, no do overs.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferretnurse View Post
    It's been over two years since I've posted, probably. I actually did the opposite as most people in this case, as I researched and read up on the case prior to watching the documentary. I'll start by saying I'm very pro cop. I used to be a correctional nurse, and I watched tons of inmates take advantage of the system, treat LE like crap, and complain about how unfair their sentences are. I went into the documentary fully expecting to hate Steven Avery and have no question of his guilt. I'm an animal lover, and the cat burning had me seeing red. (Yes, I admit to being someone who would lose their minds if someone harmed any of my animals!) I came out of the research and viewing of the show on the fence.

    My problem is simple. The darn key. Kratz made some bs comment about the fact that even if you believe the key was planted, it shouldn't matter. (I don't remember the exact quote, but the gist.) He's wrong. As soon as you believe the key "may" have been planted, you begin to question what other evidence could be tampered with. That's my reasonable doubt. Sadly, SA may be guilty, I just don't know what we can trust from the poisoned evidence. This makes me sad and angry for Teresa's family.
    Glad to have you back and to have feedback from someone who has looked at both aspects of the case.
    Everything I post without a supporting link is always JMO.

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