839 users online (74 members and 765 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 2 of 28 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 12 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 413
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Saying they "could have" gotten her spare valet key (which just so happened to have the exact same fob on it that her sister testified she gave to her months before, and that TH used all the time) does not tell us how they got it, who they got it from, or when, or where. There needs to be some evidence to point to beyond "well they could'a").
    If TH used it all the time, then why was there none of her DNA found on the key?

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Texas USA
    Posts
    12,830
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    For those who want to believe Lenk and/or Colburn planted TH's car key & fob in SA's bedroom, can you please explain exactly where they got TH's key to plant? TH was in possession of her own car key. Said key was not in her SUV after she disappeared. So where was this magical key that Lenk and/or Colburn obtained in order to plant it?
    Not saying they did this but there are only 4 to 5 copies of a key that starts each make/ model. You could get one at the manufacturer or ' house' or who knows , maybe you've got a few RAV4s in police impound lots and used one of those keys. Again, not saying that they did but finding a car key is not impossible. Come to think of it, how do we know it's the one that even starts the car and not just a ' rav 4 ' key ? Thinking out loud .

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    5,301
    If we throw out the key because we believe it's planted by LE, nothing else is reliable, IMHO.

    New investigation, top to bottom. JMO

  4. #19
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    10,242
    Quote Originally Posted by SCHMAE View Post
    Not saying they did this but there are only 4 to 5 copies of a key that starts each make/ model. You could get one at the manufacturer or ' house' or who knows , maybe you've got a few RAV4s in police impound lots and used one of those keys. Again, not saying that they did but finding a car key is not impossible. Come to think of it, how do we know it's the one that even starts the car and not just a ' rav 4 ' key ? Thinking out loud .

    Okay, let's say they acquired a 'like' key. Where did they find the exact lanyard (blue with "Air National Guard" printed on it from the EAA convention TH's sister attended 2 years before) and fob her sister, Katie, gave her 2 summers before? She only had 1 of them and that's the very same fob found on the key. Katie ID'd the key and fob on the witness stand. The fob is the one she gave TH. (That's why you have to use actual evidence and testimony.) All the "what-ifs" get quickly whittled down when compared to actual evidence and actual testimony.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Tawny View Post
    If we throw out the key because we believe it's planted by LE, nothing else is reliable, IMHO.

    New investigation, top to bottom. JMO
    If I ever murder someone, I just need to make sure I have a cop friend who can plant a key for me.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Okay let's throw out the following:

    the key
    SA's blood in TH's SUV
    the bullet with TH's DNA on it

    What's left?

    Oh right. Her body in tiny charred bits (which included the very Daisy Fuentes rivets found from the jeans she was wearing -- Brandon said they burned her clothes).

    And?

    Phone calls (at least 3) from SA to TH's phone. 2 of the calls were dialed using *67 to obscure the phone number. SA lured TH to his property by using his sister's name and sister's phone number when he called The Auto Trader to request TH come out.

    And?

    TH's last known movements place her at the Avery Salvage Yard, including pings from her own cell phone.

    And?

    TH's SUV found on the Avery property, with multiple, large pieces of metal and other debris obscuring it, one of the pieces of metal was too large and heavy for one person to move.

    And?

    TH's license plates found inside one of the other scrapped cars on the Avery property.

    And?

    TH's cell phone, palm pilot, and camera she used that very day found burned in the burn barrel right in front of SA's house. Brendan allegedly told police that's where her phone, etc were put.
    This comes up in dassey trial and that's an exaggeration and the witness who dealt with the car hood admitted it was indeed something one person could handle.

    The phone business is the most suspicious elements of everything in my opinion.

    Everything else you mention, doesn't directly point to Steve, given guys like Chuck Avery and other suspects having access to everything at the junk yard that Steve did, and convincing evidence the bones were moved.

  7. #22
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    10,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Tawny View Post
    If we throw out the key because we believe it's planted by LE, nothing else is reliable, IMHO.

    New investigation, top to bottom. JMO
    Nope, that doesn't compute. And saying the key was planted because of belief has no evidence behind it. Where's the evidence?

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    5,301
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Nope, that doesn't compute. And saying the key was planted because of belief has no evidence behind it. Where's the evidence?
    It was hypothetical. If we choose to say hypothetically "ok let's pretend this key was planted, let's throw it out as evidence" then the rest becomes questionable.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Okay, let's say they acquired a 'like' key. Where did they find the exact lanyard (blue with "Air National Guard" printed on it from the EAA convention TH's sister attended 2 years before) and fob her sister, Katie, gave her 2 summers before? She only had 1 of them and that's the very same fob found on the key. Katie ID'd the key and fob on the witness stand. The fob is the one she gave TH. (That's why you have to use actual evidence and testimony.) All the "what-ifs" get quickly whittled down when compared to actual evidence and actual testimony.

    First, you have to realize that anything in the car law enforcement had access to, such as the valet key.

    Also, does it seem to be crazy for law enforcement to ask family about they key itself and what it might be attached to ?

    I agree, that the more details that get added, the less likely a plant becomes. Which is why I am not convinced of planting, although don't doubt it could have happened for certain things.

    Lets ask why the valet key ? Is it possible another family member might have had that or it was in the glove box ?

    If we don't have anyone verify that she used the valet key, or we don't have anyone confirm she used the master key -- isn't it kind of worth questioning ?

    If it was the master key, I'd be far less likely to entertain this topic. jmo

  10. #25
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    10,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Tawny View Post
    It was hypothetical. If we choose to say hypothetically "ok let's pretend this key was planted, let's throw it out as evidence" then the rest becomes questionable.
    Only if you can tie Lenk to other evidence found and collected. Except, that's not possible. Because Lenk didn't find the other evidence in the case. So were all the officers and crime scene folks in on a conspiracy?


  11. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    5,301
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    Lets ask why the valet key ? Is it possible another family member might have had that or it was in the glove box ?

    If we don't have anyone verify that she used the valet key, or we don't have anyone confirm she used the master key -- isn't it kind of worth questioning ?

    If it was the master key, I'd be far less likely to entertain this topic. jmo
    RSBM - I definitely feel if the key was planted, it was found in the vehicle somewhere. I don't think a family member would hide that information if they gave it to the officers. JMO!

    I'm still curious where her other keys are...

  12. #27
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    10,242
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    First, you have to realize that anything in the car law enforcement had access to, such as the valet key.
    As did SA.


    Also, does it seem to be crazy for law enforcement to ask family about they key itself and what it might be attached to ?
    But did they? Or is this an imagined conversation?


    Lets ask why the valet key ? Is it possible another family member might have had that or it was in the glove box ?

    If we don't have anyone verify that she used the valet key, or we don't have anyone confirm she used the master key -- isn't it kind of worth questioning ?

    If it was the master key, I'd be far less likely to entertain this topic. jmo
    So who had it and where was it? There's an allegation TH may not have had the valet key or she had it and it was in the SUV or a family member had it or... or... ??? You can certainly speculate, but how does that get an answer? Instead I prefer to just go with the trial transcripts, witness testimony, and what was presented to the jury in court.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,438
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuchess View Post
    While I do believe it is quite possible it was planted, I don't have nearly as much concern with how long it took them to find it than WHO found it, the fact that it didn't have any of Teresa's DNA on it, and it seemed to be a valet key with no other keys on it.
    yep,

    who found it
    valet key
    no other keys.

    it's not craziness to question this, all things considered.

    The no DNA, doesn't really surprise me much. If Steve did have it, and put it in a book on his shelves or whatever, he likely has cleaned it.

    Now, the reason someone would keep the key, is if the car is on the lot and for some reason he needs to move it again.

    Someone confirming to me that Teresa used her valet key, would be meaningful to know. Coworkers ? friends ? family ? roommate ?

    I would certainly know what my friends keyring has on it, if I ever borrowed their car. But do we think law enforcement investigated this ? why ? to incriminate themselves ?


    So why would they fear that someone would ever know ? ya know ?

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,438
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post

    As did SA. -- yes, so if she used the master key with a lanyard, why would he use the valet key and transfer the lanyard? Do you think it's even worth questioning this , if we are evaluating if the key was planted ?




    But did they? Or is this an imagined conversation? -- We know very little about what anyone was asked. Until today, I had no idea that Bryan Dassey was interviewed and made statements about Steve's reactions to various situations pertinent to the crime. So, there's something I pondered about and suddenly appeared. an imagined conversation that is now reality.




    So who had it and where was it? There's an allegation TH may not have had the valet key or she had it and it was in the SUV or a family member had it or... or... ??? You can certainly speculate, but how does that get an answer? Instead I prefer to just go with the trial transcripts, witness testimony, and what was presented to the jury in court. -- see my answer to last one

    Lets take a step back and realize that we have not even seen the avery trial transcripts yet. This is why I have questions. If I had all the interviews, maybe I wouldn't be asking questions.

    But don't scoff at others for not having details we don't yet have access to. Do you have the avery trial transcripts ? please share them if you do.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    2,567
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Saying they "could have" gotten her spare valet key (which just so happened to have the exact same fob on it that her sister testified she gave to her months before, and that TH used all the time) does not tell us how they got it, who they got it from, or when, or where. There needs to be some evidence to point to beyond "well they could'a").

    Please, let's remember, the burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. The defense is not required to provide an alternative theory. In fact, due to some weird WI law, they were actually prevented from doing so.

    Again, this is about "Reasonable Doubt." There is plenty here.

    The fact that the Avery jury verdicts "split the baby," and that some jurors have come forward admitting that there was vote trading, calls into question whether or not this was a fair trial.

Page 2 of 28 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 12 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss
    By Madeleine74 in forum Netflix Series: Making A Murderer
    Replies: 690
    Last Post: 11-21-2017, 12:09 AM
  2. SC - Student planted pipe bombs at school
    By OneLostGrl in forum Crimes-Spotlight on Children
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-28-2010, 01:09 AM
  3. CA - Nails Planted in CA playground
    By JBean in forum Crimes-Spotlight on Children
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-17-2010, 10:57 AM
  4. DA candidates say pornography planted
    By Quincy in forum Bizarre and Off-Beat News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-01-2004, 02:19 PM

Tags for this Thread