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  1. #31
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    How do you know that the key wasn't in the SUV? Coburn could have found the key in the RAV two days before the RAV was officially found and then locked up the RAV and taken the key. In my view, however, it is more likely that one of the brothers or Tadych planted the key in SA's home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    For those who want to believe Lenk and/or Colburn planted TH's car key & fob in SA's bedroom, can you please explain exactly where they got TH's key to plant? TH was in possession of her own car key. Said key was not in her SUV after she disappeared. So where was this magical key that Lenk and/or Colburn obtained in order to plant it?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Seriously?

    They took his toothbrush or one of his shirts out to the SUV to 'plant' his DNA on the latch underneath the hood of the SUV? The very latch police didn't even know about until Brendan told them SA opened up the hood of the SUV to disconnect something? (btw, whatever that was, a hose or whatever, was in fact found disconnected). And, a swab of the hood latch was taken by a crime scene investigator, packaged and sent to the Wisconsin Crime Lab, and the lab was able to develop a DNA profile from those swabs. It matched to SA.
    You asked about the key. I answered that. You can't change the goalposts in the middle of a debate.

    But to answer you, it was stated in an earlier thread that an officer handled the rav4 without changing gloves, and experts state that skin cells can be transferred. I'm looking for the statement again to quote it.

  3. #33
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    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferretnurse View Post
    You asked about the key. I answered that. You can't change the goalposts in the middle of a debate.

    But to answer you, it was stated in an earlier thread that an officer handled the rav4 without changing gloves, and experts state that skin cells can be transferred. I'm looking for the statement again to quote it.
    Was that officer Lenk? It is alleged to be Lenk who found (i.e. planted) the key in SA's bedroom. Did the officer who allegedly didn't change his gloves after handling the Rav4 and SA's car also handle the key in SA's bedroom?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
    So, let's say that LE somehow planted the key. Does this make all the other evidence against him moot? Could it be possible that he did kill Teresa but, just to be certain, someone in law enforcement decided to plant a key? Yes, that's horrible. But, for me, it doesn't make the rest of the evidence against him just go away...it just doesn't.
    This absolutely 100% does make the rest of the evidence tainted. It raises reasonable doubt on its own.
    This is why the producers of The doc did it the way they did. This is why all one has to do is watch the doc. No need to research rest of the case.
    The documentary raises reasonable doubt irregardless of what the rest of the evidence is.
    There should be a retrial. And I believe there will be.

  5. #35
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    I leave for a few hours.... come back and we are upstairs!!!!! Does this mean we have to behave? hehehe

    I have a question for those that think the key was not planted (by LE or anyone else)..... How do you explain or rationalize no other DNA being found on it?

    It's the lack of other DNA on that key/lanyard that gets me. Not a trace of TH? If I went missing today and my truck key was found, you would find my DNA, my husbands, probably my kids.... shoot, I would be shocked if my dogs DNA wasn't on it, and hopefully there would be a trace of DNA from the person responsible for me being missing. I cannot find a rational reason for no other DNA on that key.

  6. #36
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    Not sure if I'm positing in the right section. Just binge watched all 10 episodes, as creepy as it was. I am not convinced of Steven's innocence or guilt but I do feel the investigators did not AT ALL investigate possible other suspects, mainly the relatives who lived so close by and have criminal records. I feel that DA was a complete dirtbag creep, and the theory the key was planted (strange none of the victim's DA was found on it) could be true. After NO blood was found in his house or garage, shouldn't have the family/neighbor's yards and homes been checked?

    The entire case is baffling. I don't think we will ever know for sure what happened to this poor girl unless someone comes forward with information or a confession. SA's prior criminal history does make me think he is a sociopath and as a therapist once told me, there is no way the average, good person could EVER even try to understand the mind of a sociopath. They don't have empathy. And they have such a high sense of self-worth that perhaps he did think he could commit this crime, and if found out, blame it on the town trying to get him. And for a man with a very low IQ of 70, he might have just out-smarted the thousands of us with high IQs who have watched this story and now doubt he is guilty.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuchess View Post
    While I do believe it is quite possible it was planted, I don't have nearly as much concern with how long it took them to find it than WHO found it, the fact that it didn't have any of Teresa's DNA on it, and it seemed to be a valet key with no other keys on it.
    I believe that it was perhaps the trophy that some SK's have to have. He stuffed it in the back of the bookcase and upon jiggling the book case, it fell out. That is totally plausible to me. It was a valet key anyway, so how did the police get it to plant it?
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
    I believe that it was perhaps the trophy that some SK's have to have. He stuffed it in the back of the bookcase and upon jiggling the book case, it fell out. That is totally plausible to me. It was a valet key anyway, so how did the police get it to plant it?
    Depends on if you believe the police planted the car and had the key all along, or if you believe they had access in the crime lab.

    Another possibility is that a family member such as the brother had it, and gave it to police.

    I am not saying that is something I find probable. But, I don't doubt that if a family member/friend had the key, and believed that avery was the killer.... might give that to police for that purpose.

    It's out there, but it's plausible.

    I can imagine a family member/friend who believed avery was the killer, could convince themselves that this was fair play. jmo

    ends justifies the means - happens all the time, if we are willing to be honest

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
    I believe that it was perhaps the trophy that some SK's have to have. He stuffed it in the back of the bookcase and upon jiggling the book case, it fell out. That is totally plausible to me. It was a valet key anyway, so how did the police get it to plant it?
    Whoa now we're talking about him as though he's a serial killer?

  10. #40
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    I'm not sure how to share just a picture.... so here is the link. https://imgur.com/a/vgV9B

    I seen it on reddit.... Colburn said he shook that bookcase quite roughly. There is a remote control and and a piece of paper on the top, undisturbed, the books or whatever it is on the bottom.... and what looks to be a phone, all look pretty much undisturbed.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferretnurse View Post
    It's been over two years since I've posted, probably. I actually did the opposite as most people in this case, as I researched and read up on the case prior to watching the documentary. I'll start by saying I'm very pro cop. I used to be a correctional nurse, and I watched tons of inmates take advantage of the system, treat LE like crap, and complain about how unfair their sentences are. I went into the documentary fully expecting to hate Steven Avery and have no question of his guilt. I'm an animal lover, and the cat burning had me seeing red. (Yes, I admit to being someone who would lose their minds if someone harmed any of my animals!) I came out of the research and viewing of the show on the fence.

    My problem is simple. The darn key. Kratz made some bs comment about the fact that even if you believe the key was planted, it shouldn't matter. (I don't remember the exact quote, but the gist.) He's wrong. As soon as you believe the key "may" have been planted, you begin to question what other evidence could be tampered with. That's my reasonable doubt. Sadly, SA may be guilty, I just don't know what we can trust from the poisoned evidence. This makes me sad and angry for Teresa's family.
    I think what they're trying to say is that even if the key was planted, SA's sweat is still under the hood of Halbachs SUV. It's a no win for SA, he became a killer.

  12. #42
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    http://fox6now.com/2016/01/07/march-...ert-testifies/
    this is a video that shows testimony about the the key not being dusted for fingerprints.

    at about the 9-10 second mark... the crime lab dude is actually handling evidence without a glove on his one hand, and there is another image later that shows handling of what looks like a vial of blood. Would they normally wear gloves in court when handling evidence???

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by missy1974 View Post
    http://fox6now.com/2016/01/07/march-...ert-testifies/
    this is a video that shows testimony about the the key not being dusted for fingerprints.

    at about the 9-10 second mark... the crime lab dude is actually handling evidence without a glove on his one hand, and there is another image later that shows handling of what looks like a vial of blood. Would they normally wear gloves in court when handling evidence???
    I have seen them put gloves on it court before handling evidence.So I will say yes it is normally done.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuchess View Post
    To prove that I am indeed open to other ideas - perhaps SA left them in his pocket and the key went through the wash? I dunno.
    Do you suppose the key may have been in his pocket when he cleaned the floor with bleach? I'm not an expert by any means, but could the bleach removed the DNA? When he realized the key was in his pocket, he then took it out, causing his DNA to be the only DNA on the key.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    Depends on if you believe the police planted the car and had the key all along, or if you believe they had access in the crime lab.

    Another possibility is that a family member such as the brother had it, and gave it to police.

    I am not saying that is something I find probable. But, I don't doubt that if a family member/friend had the key, and believed that avery was the killer.... might give that to police for that purpose.

    It's out there, but it's plausible.

    I can imagine a family member/friend who believed avery was the killer, could convince themselves that this was fair play. jmo

    ends justifies the means - happens all the time, if we are willing to be honest
    If a family member ' had the key' how did they get it ? If a family member gave LE the key, then LE could have just said family member gave us the key and not ' plant it' in his room.

    ETA Now that you mention it, I guess the key could have been ' planted' by a family member and not Lenk! I'm fairly convinced someone on the property is involved in the murder and his family probably could come in and out anytime during all the time the searches were going on . SA's out at work and a brother or bil slips in to use the bathroom, drops the key and walks away.

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