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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessie View Post
    Why not pose the question in a new thread?
    I don't even think a new thread is needed. We all know that chlorine bleach doesn't get rid of blood.

    There was a luminol hit, so why is anyone surprised if chlorine bleach was used -- if it was oxygenated bleach, there'd be no luminol hit. right ?

    I'm kind of confused why people keep pointing out chlorine bleach not cleaning blood, because it truly is irrelevant to cleaning blood.


    But it's completely relevant to what brendan told his mother he was doing that day, and why he had bleach on his pants. It's also in no way inconsistent with anything in the garage, as there was a luminol hit, so blood -- whether blood or deer -- was present.

    I'm confused by why people are so adamantly opposed to brendan helping clean steve's garage. It doesn't mean he's guilty.

    If we are going to throw out what people say because we don't like it, we can probably just stop the thread altogether haha

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephsb View Post
    Wait when did Bryan mention bleach? I read his statement at like 3am last night did I miss something?



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    He didn't - he said that brendan was going to help steve clean the garage. My wording was poor.

    But again, if he doesn't say bleach was used to clean, does that even matter ? what if he used 401 ? what if he used pine sol ?

    I just mentioned bryan , because he is another person who mentions cleaning of steve's garage floor.

    I mention bleach because it matches the pants. So why is it unrealistic to assume he used bleach ? i find it funny that people have a problem with that.

    If they chose to use oxygenated bleach, wouldn't that indicate they understood more than most of us that it was capable of cleaning blood ???

    But that would have been capable of cleaning blood -- which we know was not the case here, whether chlorine bleach was used or not, because there was a luminol hit for blood

    haha. This is bizarre why anyone is having trouble getting that the reason they didn't specify the bleach in the trial is because the type was irrelevant. It was assumed that it was chlorine bleach because of brendan's pants.

  3. #18
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    Someone made a humongous post, going on about how they believed bleach was used that night because of bleach stains on Brendan's jeans, and how they believe some family members statements. So if chlorine bleach was used to clean up just grime, then who cares if they cleaned up grime with bleach. Jmo

  4. #19
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    I think there is a major misunderstanding by many about the garage floor.

    There was a luminol hit on the floor for blood. That is fact. (except to those of you who believe nothing can be trusted)
    So there is zero chance that oxygenated bleach was used.
    There is no proof that chlorine bleach was used on the floor.
    Barb says she questioned brendan about his pants being bleached on that night, he said they got bleached while cleaning steve's floor.
    Bryan says Brendan was going to help Steve clean his floor --- didn't say bleach. But if he didn't say what was used, does that mean it was pine sol or 401 or whatever ? was it possibly still bleach ?
    Brendan's pants are bleached as his mother said. - we assume that chlorine bleach is what bleached his pants. NOT oxygenated bleach, because that would not stain. So irrelevant to anything i'm saying.

    That's all -- i'm amazed that anything above is hard to believe, possible or even likely

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaleigh26 View Post
    Someone made a humongous post, going on about how they believed bleach was used that night because of bleach stains on Brendan's jeans, and how they believe some family members statements. So if chlorine bleach was used to clean up just grime, then who cares if they cleaned up grime with bleach. Jmo
    Exactly - it doesn't matter what was used. I am simply stating it because bleached pants, matches what he told his mother -- NOT POLICE

    It's nothing that proves guilt, but why is it so troubling to people if brendan did indeed help clean the floor of steven's garage that day ?

    why exactly is that occurrence something no one want's to admit could happen ?

    completely puzzling to me.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    He didn't - he said that brendan was going to help steve clean the garage. My wording was poor.

    But again, if he doesn't say bleach was used to clean, does that even matter ? what if he used 401 ? what if he used pine sol ?

    I just mentioned bryan , because he is another person who mentions cleaning of steve's garage floor.

    I mention bleach because it matches the pants. So why is it unrealistic to assume he used bleach ? i find it funny that people have a problem with that.

    If they chose to use oxygenated bleach, wouldn't that indicate they understood more than most of us that it was capable of cleaning blood ???

    But that would have been capable of cleaning blood -- which we know was not the case here, whether chlorine bleach was used or not, because there was a luminol hit for blood

    haha. This is bizarre why anyone is having trouble getting that the reason they didn't specify the bleach in the trial is because the type was irrelevant. It was assumed that it was chlorine bleach because of brendan's pants.
    Chlorine bleach is a common crime scene contaminant. When chlorine bleach is poured in a garage to the extent it is splashing on Brendan's pants, and used to wipe up blood, that garage should have lit up like a Christmas tree, and wiping patterns should have been present. I linked an article about this in thread #2. The jurors shouldn't be assuming what kind of bleach is used, this is a trial, it deals w. evidence. if the State wants to use Brendan's pants to show he used chlorine bleach to clean Avery's garage, then prove it, and I'll accept it. Until then, I'm not accepting Brendan cleaned that garage on hearsay and his "confession". I respect your opinion on this issue, but I think it's completely valid for people to also believe that chlorine bleach was not used to clean Avery's garage.


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  7. #22
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    Oh now I gotcha!!
    I thought you were trying to sneak that pillow in again

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    I think there is a major misunderstanding by many about the garage floor.

    There was a luminol hit on the floor for blood. That is fact. (except to those of you who believe nothing can be trusted)
    So there is zero chance that oxygenated bleach was used.
    There is no proof that chlorine bleach was used on the floor.
    Barb says she questioned brendan about his pants being bleached on that night, he said they got bleached while cleaning steve's floor.
    Bryan says Brendan was going to help Steve clean his floor --- didn't say bleach. But if he didn't say what was used, does that mean it was pine sol or 401 or whatever ? was it possibly still bleach ?
    Brendan's pants are bleached as his mother said. - we assume that chlorine bleach is what bleached his pants. NOT oxygenated bleach, because that would not stain. So irrelevant to anything i'm saying.

    That's all -- i'm amazed that anything above is hard to believe, possible or even likely
    If there is no proof chlorine bleach was used in the garage then why was it even brought up? I am so confused now


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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessie View Post
    The idea is to start breaking out the more salient points and issues into topic specific threads. The topic needn't be the question of oxygen bleach, per se, but rather the relevance of BD's bleach stained jeans. Just a suggestion.

    It's up to you guys. I'm trying to give you the option to start your own threads on topics you see as relevant.

    Yeah, I think if someone starts a topic on chlorine vs oxygenated in relation to blood, that's fine - because I'm pretty confident it has zero relevance to any of this. Unless someone thinks there is reason to believe oxygenated bleach was used -- i see absolutely no evidence of that.

    I only see a floor with a luminol hit for blood ---means no oxygenated bleach could have been used
    I see a pair of bleached pants -- oxygenated bleach wouldn't do that.

  10. #25
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    Brendan Dassey's defense attorney, Mark Fremgen opening statement regarding the use of bleach that day -

    They go into the garage, and there’s a small area behind the lawnmower as if something had spilled. Steven takes some gasoline and pours it onto this little area, and they use some clothing, old rags, that sop up the mess, and as they begin to clean it up with these old clothes and old rags, they throw them onto the fire, and they do that for about a half hour. Steven tries some gasoline and paints — paint thinner to help clean up the area, and some bleach as well.

    Pg 85 of 256


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9ow4lwzec...16_07.pdf?dl=0


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephsb View Post
    If there is no proof chlorine bleach was used in the garage then why was it even brought up? I am so confused now


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    haha. someone mentioned the comment barb made regarding what brendan told her about the pants.

    It's obvious that chlorine bleach stained his pants.

    If we believe barb janda was told by brendan that he helped clean steve's garage floor with bleach -- then yes, you believe the floor was bleached.

    Chlorine bleach does NOT clean blood, so that is consistent with the blood stain in the garage as there was a luminol hit --- it doesn't mean there was chlorine bleach is proven to be used, it just means we believe brendan, barb and his pants.

    Bryan says that brendan was going to clean steve's garage floor. No mention of bleach. But it's another person that mentions cleaning that floor. What was used, is not important to his statement. Only to corroborate that brendan did indeed help clean the garage floor -- of whatever was there oil, or whatnot.

    Brendan's PANTS in addition to all this stuff above, suggests that he indeed was using bleach, if barb and brendan are telling the truth.

    Again, I honestly find that most probable is that they were honest because they had no reason to lie. Does't mean they didn't lie, but just means i think lying would have been the thing that would have spared them alot of grief -- not telling the truth.

    so yes, i think that makes me believe it's probable that it's truth.

    no facts. just probability and plausibility.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    Yeah, I think if someone starts a topic on chlorine vs oxygenated in relation to blood, that's fine - because I'm pretty confident it has zero relevance to any of this. Unless someone thinks there is reason to believe oxygenated bleach was used -- i see absolutely no evidence of that.

    I only see a floor with a luminol hit for blood ---means no oxygenated bleach could have been used
    I see a pair of bleached pants -- oxygenated bleach wouldn't do that.
    Ok, here's one for you - a poster said there was an empty bottle of bleach in Steven's bathroom. What kind of bleach was it? I'm sure no one knows.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimeSuspect View Post
    Brendan Dassey's defense attorney, Mark Fremgen opening statement regarding the use of bleach that day -

    They go into the garage, and there’s a small area behind the lawnmower as if something had spilled. Steven takes some gasoline and pours it onto this little area, and they use some clothing, old rags, that sop up the mess, and as they begin to clean it up with these old clothes and old rags, they throw them onto the fire, and they do that for about a half hour. Steven tries some gasoline and paints — paint thinner to help clean up the area, and some bleach as well.

    Pg 85 of 256


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9ow4lwzec...16_07.pdf?dl=0

    Thanks for finding that PrimeSuspect

  14. #29
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    It came up on thread #1, and the garage is consistent with :

    a) having a 3x3 / 3x4 bloodstain spot - human, deer or some kind of blood via luminol test - YES there was a luminol hit, this is fact and stated in dassey trial and accepted by defense.
    b) bleach cannot be determined as being definitively used, but nothing about the garage is inconsistent with bleach being used. So if brendan said bleach was used, it's consistent.
    c) brendan's pants had bleach stains.
    d) it cannot be proven that brendan cleaned that floor that night with bleach.
    e) If he didn't clean the floor with bleach
    ----1) barb maybe lied about what brendan told -- see no reason why she'd do that
    ----2) brendan lied to his mother because the truth was not something he wanted to admit -- ie he ruined his pants while trying to launder them ? plausible, but for me, more probable he was truthful
    ----3) bryan was either mistaken or lied about what brendan was doing, as he stated brendan was going to help steve clean the floor. -- didn't mention bleach, but not sure why he'd even say at that point. likely didn't know.



    I'm out of this one now, because it's really just a matter of whether you believe it's probable that Barb or Brendan or Bryan would lie about that day -- or that the statements are incorrect/coerced.

    If you believe like I do that they had no reason to lie, you'd believe it was likely the truth.

    Even more convincing to me, is that NOT saying any of this likely saves them all quite a bit of grief. yet... they did indeed say these things, and without any coercion. (to my knowledge)

    None of what is above relies on oxygenated bleach.
    None of it relies on anyone understanding of what kind of bleach cleans blood.
    None of it relies on any guilt by ANYONE

    It just relies on us believing what people said, when they likely had no reason to lie.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimeSuspect View Post
    Brendan Dassey's defense attorney, Mark Fremgen opening statement regarding the use of bleach that day -

    They go into the garage, and there’s a small area behind the lawnmower as if something had spilled. Steven takes some gasoline and pours it onto this little area, and they use some clothing, old rags, that sop up the mess, and as they begin to clean it up with these old clothes and old rags, they throw them onto the fire, and they do that for about a half hour. Steven tries some gasoline and paints — paint thinner to help clean up the area, and some bleach as well.

    Pg 85 of 256


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9ow4lwzec...16_07.pdf?dl=0

    The pg before that puts SA in the cart that the dog later hit on for remains.
    __________
    “Hate, it has caused a lot of problems in the world, but has not solved one yet.” - Maya Angelou

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