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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticJynx View Post
    I find it weird that on SA's bill it says that call at 4:35 the call lasted 00 seconds. However on TH's bill it states that call was 13 seconds long. Is this odd? How do you think this happens?
    I think it was on reddit where I read a theory that .... he called ,it went right to voicemail so he hung up, (0 seconds on his end?), on her end because it connected to the VM, it took 13 seconds to disconnect? I can't think of any reason it would record differently like that... then again.... we don't have the actual records, we have a word document to look at LOL

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by missy1974 View Post
    I think it was on reddit where I read a theory that .... he called ,it went right to voicemail so he hung up, (0 seconds on his end?), on her end because it connected to the VM, it took 13 seconds to disconnect? I can't think of any reason it would record differently like that... then again.... we don't have the actual records, we have a word document to look at LOL
    But the one that didn't connect at 2:35pm doesn't reflect on her bill. I don't know maybe a human error typing out the document we see.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murtagh21 View Post

    If Avery wants to continue to charge law enforcement with malfeasance, provide concrete proof of that claim. If Avery wants to claim that his two brothers were the "real" murderers, provide tangible evidence of their involvement. Avery's task becomes even more daunting when you include logic into the legal equation. Who requested that Halbach photograph a vehicle on the Avery compound? Who called Halbach's place of business not once, but twice using Star 67? Who called Halbach's place of business a third time AFTER Halbach was murdered and asked why she didn't show up for the photography session? Wasn't that caller the SAME person who admitted to local reporters AND Nancy Grace that Halbach DID show up for the photography session?
    Was there testimony in court that Avery called Auto Trader @ 4:35 PM on 10/31 and asked why TH did not show up ? I thought he had called TH to see if she could come back and photograph another vehicle the Avery clan had for sale ? Do you know for a fact if Steven used *67 on the majority of his calls on other days ?

    DEFENDANT IS A LIAR + DEFENDANT'S KID GOES MISSING + DEFENDANT REPORTS KID MISSING AFTER 31 DAYS + KID IS FOUND DEAD = DEFENDANT KILLED KID

  4. #34
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    SUSTAINED: The Star 67 ruse was presented in detail during closing arguments and, if memory serves, testimony about those three calls (e.g., two Star 67 calls and singular call at 4:35 PM) was provided by the receptionist who worked for Halbach's employer. Avery used his sister's name as the contact person during those two Star 67 calls, and the ruse was corroborated by Halbach's call to her employer stating that she didn't know the exact location of the Avery photo shoot. Halbach had been out to the Avery residence 5 times in the past, so why did she state that she had no idea where the photo shoot was located? Logic dictates that Halbach had no idea where Avery's sister lived on the Avery compound.

    In regards to Avery's prior calls to Halbach's employer, he never used Star 67 when requesting Halbach to photograph a vehicle on his property. It's important to note that from 10/31/05 to 11/5/05, the vehicle Halbach photographed remained in the SAME LOCATION on Avery's property. Avery never moved that vehicle to the section of the compound where other cars were for sale. The whole purpose of that photo session was to sell that vehicle at the Avery compound, yet Avery decided to keep it apart from where other vehicles had been photographed for Auto Trader magazine.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murtagh21 View Post
    SUSTAINED: The Star 67 ruse was presented in detail during closing arguments and, if memory serves, testimony about those three calls (e.g., two Star 67 calls and singular call at 4:35 PM) was provided by the receptionist who worked for Halbach's employer. Avery used his sister's name as the contact person during those two Star 67 calls, and the ruse was corroborated by Halbach's call to her employer stating that she didn't know the exact location of the Avery photo shoot. Halbach had been out to the Avery residence 5 times in the past, so why did she state that she had no idea where the photo shoot was located? Logic dictates that Halbach had no idea where Avery's sister lived on the Avery compound.

    In regards to Avery's prior calls to Halbach's employer, he never used Star 67 when requesting Halbach to photograph a vehicle on his property. It's important to note that from 10/31/05 to 11/5/05, the vehicle Halbach photographed remained in the SAME LOCATION on Avery's property. Avery never moved that vehicle to the section of the compound where other cars were for sale. The whole purpose of that photo session was to sell that vehicle at the Avery compound, yet Avery decided to keep it apart from where other vehicles had been photographed for Auto Trader magazine.
    The 4:35 call was placed directly to Teresa's cell phone, not the receptionist @ Auto Trader. And as far as having the van out on the road leading to the Dassey and SA's homes, so what ? In actuality, he made it easier for Teresa to pull in and take some quick pics, rather than having to go back deeper into the salvage yard. Proves nothing ....

    DEFENDANT IS A LIAR + DEFENDANT'S KID GOES MISSING + DEFENDANT REPORTS KID MISSING AFTER 31 DAYS + KID IS FOUND DEAD = DEFENDANT KILLED KID

  6. #36
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    SUSTAINED: Thanks for clarifying the context of the 4:35 call. Speaking of context, the FACT that the vehicle that Avery wanted to sell remained in the SAME location for 5 days, is just a small piece of a much larger puzzle. Again, Avery is attempting to use a photograph placed in Auto Trader magazine as a way to sell that vehicle, yet he doesn't move that vehicle to the appropriate location? It is similar to his moving Halbach's vehicle a stone's throw away from the crusher, yet he ultimately decides to take the plates off the car, lock the vehicle, and cover it up with yard debris.

    The Netflix documentary makes a concerted effort to "prove" that Avery's blood was planted in 6 locations inside Halbach's vehicle. They give a half-hearted effort in playing fair by including the testimony of Deputy O'Conner and Detective Remiker in regards to protecting the scene where Halbach's vehicle was found. What the audience is unaware of is that prior to the forensic team arriving at the Avery compound, FOUR officers were in charge of protecting that particular crime scene.

    In addition to O'Conner and Remiker, Sergeant Orth and Lieutenant Hermann guarded Halbach's vehicle. To a man, they testified that NO person entered Halbach's vehicle prior to the Calumet County forensic team arriving at the scene. The vehicle was locked when Pam Sturm and her daughter Nikole first discovered the vehicle and Halbach's key had not yet been discovered.

    The LOCKED vehicle is then transported to a garage in Madison, photographs are taken of the outside of the vehicle on the 6th, and then the forensic team has to open the vehicle without the use of a key in order to photograph the inside of the car on the 7th. Logic and chain of custody proves that no rogue officer or officers had access to the inside of that LOCKED vehicle PRIOR to the discovery of Avery's blood inside that vehicle.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murtagh21 View Post
    SUSTAINED: Thanks for clarifying the context of the 4:35 call. Speaking of context, the FACT that the vehicle that Avery wanted to sell remained in the SAME location for 5 days, is just a small piece of a much larger puzzle. Again, Avery is attempting to use a photograph placed in Auto Trader magazine as a way to sell that vehicle, yet he doesn't move that vehicle to the appropriate location? It is similar to his moving Halbach's vehicle a stone's throw away from the crusher, yet he ultimately decides to take the plates off the car, lock the vehicle, and cover it up with yard debris.

    The Netflix documentary makes a concerted effort to "prove" that Avery's blood was planted in 6 locations inside Halbach's vehicle. They give a half-hearted effort in playing fair by including the testimony of Deputy O'Conner and Detective Remiker in regards to protecting the scene where Halbach's vehicle was found. What the audience is unaware of is that prior to the forensic team arriving at the Avery compound, FOUR officers were in charge of protecting that particular crime scene.

    In addition to O'Conner and Remiker, Sergeant Orth and Lieutenant Hermann guarded Halbach's vehicle. To a man, they testified that NO person entered Halbach's vehicle prior to the Calumet County forensic team arriving at the scene. The vehicle was locked when Pam Sturm and her daughter Nikole first discovered the vehicle and Halbach's key had not yet been discovered.

    The LOCKED vehicle is then transported to a garage in Madison, photographs are taken of the outside of the vehicle on the 6th, and then the forensic team has to open the vehicle without the use of a key in order to photograph the inside of the car on the 7th. Logic and chain of custody proves that no rogue officer or officers had access to the inside of that LOCKED vehicle PRIOR to the discovery of Avery's blood inside that vehicle.
    Once again, the chain of custody means absolutely nothing on the RAV4 when it was found on the Avery lot. If blood evidence was planted, it could have easily been done overnight under the cover of darkness before Pam Sturm "found" it and when the Avery's were up at the cabin in Crivitz.

    Oh, and how do we know the key found in Avery's bedroom was not the SPARE key and someone else had the working set TH was using ?

    DEFENDANT IS A LIAR + DEFENDANT'S KID GOES MISSING + DEFENDANT REPORTS KID MISSING AFTER 31 DAYS + KID IS FOUND DEAD = DEFENDANT KILLED KID

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawny View Post
    If you're going to keep stating that he called her and left a message asking where she was after she left as fact, then we have nothing more to discuss. That is a myth, there is no verification, it was something Kratz threw out there as a theory to explain that call which, for all we know, was him calling to ask her to come back another time to take photos of another vehicle. We don't know why that call was made.

    Do you believe Schmitz was attempting to "disguise" who he was by giving another name when he made the appointment?
    From Strang's opening statements from the trial transcripts:

    Steven Avery calls her later, as a
    7 matter of fact, from his cell phone. Again, he
    8 calls her cell phone at about 4:35 that
    9 afternoon. Why, because he thought, I have got
    10 another car I would like to sell. I might as
    11 well, if she's still around, or if she can swing
    12 back, I might as well have her shoot that one
    13 too.
    14 But he doesn't get an answer from her,
    15 doesn't answer the phone, when he calls at 4:35.
    Page 128

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    Agreed. That has never really been explained. I thought of that a while back....just going off of what was either reported or in the 2005 thread. me=
    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    From Strang's opening statements from the trial transcripts:

    Steven Avery calls her later, as a
    7 matter of fact, from his cell phone. Again, he
    8 calls her cell phone at about 4:35 that
    9 afternoon. Why, because he thought, I have got
    10 another car I would like to sell. I might as
    11 well, if she's still around, or if she can swing
    12 back, I might as well have her shoot that one
    13 too.
    14 But he doesn't get an answer from her,
    15 doesn't answer the phone, when he calls at 4:35.
    Page 128
    4:35pm Steve calls Teresa w/no *67 feature and her bill reflects a 13 second call, however his phone reflect the call not even going through at 00 seconds.
    *Exhibits 362, 360 and 381

    This says to me that he did indeed call her at 4:35pm and when he on his line got her VM he hung up, her line continued to pick up a the voicemail outgoing message, that was probably at least what 13 seconds long?

    Also Opening statements are just a guide of what the parties intend to show the jury as evidence, to meet their openings claims. These Openings and the Closings are not evidence.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticJynx View Post
    I was just reading this testimony and commenting on the testimony thread of day 2. The Account number that was on that slip was just made, because the receptionist DP didn't bother to look into the name address and number as she clearly knew he was a reoccurring customer since she testified that he wanted the same photographer as BEFORE, she decided to just appoint it another account number a new one. And on that note she knew as maybe her reoccurring customers did that she was the ONLY photographer for that area. Only making appointments on Mondays. He also did not ask for TH by name. So really how did she know, other than the area code of the number he gave that he was even talking about TH? DP claims she did not know this customer.
    ahhh yes, I stand corrected!
    I just read your post over there.... I have a question, not necessarily for you LOL I think I'm on information overload! LOL

    If she left the message on BJ's answer machine and on the message she said she could be there around 2 or later and just needed to know if that worked, who called her back to let her know that the time would work? His first call to her was after 2pm right? so until that call, she didn't have confirmation that the time was good.... I'm leaning towards the 3:30ish time starting to sound way more plausible. (I have been debating this in my mind lol)


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    I think that would have something to do with him being the last person to see her. Don't you think it is odd that 2 hours after she got there, that he leaves a message saying (not quoting here) where are you? After all, the bus driver saw her there a hour before--so we do know that SA was the last person to see her alive and he did disguise who he was when he called Auto Trader.
    I don't find it odd at all considering he never left a message like that nor ever denied she was there.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    From Strang's opening statements from the trial transcripts:

    Steven Avery calls her later, as a
    7 matter of fact, from his cell phone. Again, he
    8 calls her cell phone at about 4:35 that
    9 afternoon. Why, because he thought, I have got
    10 another car I would like to sell. I might as
    11 well, if she's still around, or if she can swing
    12 back, I might as well have her shoot that one
    13 too.
    14 But he doesn't get an answer from her,
    15 doesn't answer the phone, when he calls at 4:35.

    Page 128
    I'm no in the mod to read the transcripts yet, but did he leave a voicemail? And if so, was it one deleted by her brother?
    "One man's logic is another man's crazy" - Rossi (Criminal Minds)

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by missy1974 View Post
    ahhh yes, I stand corrected!
    I just read your post over there.... I have a question, not necessarily for you LOL I think I'm on information overload! LOL

    If she left the message on BJ's answer machine and on the message she said she could be there around 2 or later and just needed to know if that worked, who called her back to let her know that the time would work? His first call to her was after 2pm right? so until that call, she didn't have confirmation that the time was good.... I'm leaning towards the 3:30ish time starting to sound way more plausible. (I have been debating this in my mind lol)
    I too have had the same questions. His first was at around 2:24 but it was only 8 Seconds long. The second call at 2:35 did not even register her phone. They got that *67 call from his bill.
    So Who was it that did confirm this appointment time and when? Seems more to me that she was due to be there a little after 2:15 lets say. Even a little later than the two O'clock. So she had 1:30 at SS in New Holstein, and she knew she would be committing the little after two for BJ just needed to confirm. Knowing it would take her a bit of time to drive there. Had the appointment with the "AVERY BROTHERS" as testified by the AT employees by 2:27pm. DP testifies that TH stated she was going to the AVERY BROTHERS NOW! The information with the time routes to each Manitowoc Co. Residences, I just find it more likely that GZ was the last customer that day. Not saying I believe he is the last to see her alive. Just think that JoZ who testified to recieving a message from TH while she was working in the yard before she arrived stating that she was a little lost and could not find the place. TH arrived but the message wasnt heard till later. What time was that message at i wonder. They only mention one call to the The GZ residence on her phone. Was this the one to confirm the time or was this the one where shes calling cause she is lost? I think the 2:12 phone call to GZ was to set up the appointment that came in through a lead from the telemarket service a little later that day. And since she was already headed out to Manitowoc she would be able to also fit in this NEW customer.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by missy1974 View Post
    the leaving a message 2 hours later..... is as far as I can tell, a myth..... one that Kratz made up. There is zero evidence about any message he left. Also... according to Colborn, when he went to see SA the evening of November 3rd, SA told him that yes she was there, she took pictures, she didn't say if she had any other appointments, and she left. The idea that SA denied her being there.... I have not seen any whatsoever.

    Disguised who he was? It was Barb's vehicle. And according to AutoTrader, TH told them she was going to the Avery's, the 2:27 call... she was on her way to the Avery brothers. She had 3 known appointments that day. One other one was also called into Autotrader by someone and she met with and went to another residence.... was he disguising who he was too?
    Just give up Missy. For some people, if Kratz said it happened... Well, it must be true. Kratz also said he was "the prize" so most people should take his word for anything with a grain of salt.

  15. #45
    The Timeline I have going for all the Players for just Oct 31, It is work in progress adding and deleting or correcting things as I read the transcripts, warrants, Interviews, Etc....


    Oct 31 2005.

    8:12am Steve Avery makes a 2min 38sec call to Auto Trader. He supposedly requested the same girl as last time. (THIS IS HEARSAY). *Exhibit 360 and 17
    Auto Trader: They take a record of his appointment. The handwritten piece of paper states The customers name and ACCOUNT #. What does it mean to have an account with Auto Trader? The address is
    clearly written down and the type of the car a 1989 Dodge Minivan. The price she was to collect
    from the appointment which was 39.95. No special instructions. The Account did all the Avery's have an account or was the account just in Barb's name. Then I would wonder if the account is always used when
    placing their cars in the magazine?

    9:46am. Auto Trader called Teresa but this call only lasts 33 seconds. Did they leave her a message? what was the message they left her? Did Teresa have a landline also at the house she lived in?
    *Exhibit 362

    11:00am or sometime there after TH calls Auto Trader and gets her manager, DP is on lunch, Leaves
    Message for DP that she will be able to get out and see that customer and to send her the info.

    11:04am picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362

    11:27am picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381

    11:31am Unknown call *Exhibit 381

    11:35am Unknown call *Exhibit 362 and 381

    11:43am Call's BJ's and leaves the last known message of being able to come out that after noon around two o'clock or even a little later. ANSWERING MACHINE. Meaning someone at the BJ house that day gave Steven that phone number. *Exhibit 362 and 381


    12:29pm Unknown Call *Exhibit 381

    12:39pm picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381

    12:45pm Unknown call *Exhibit 381

    12:51pm She makes a call to her first appointment that day SS.*Exhibit 362 and 381.

    1:30pm Arrives at SS in New Holstein 10-15mins

    1:52pm Unknown Call *Exhibit 381

    2:12pm She calls GZ *Exhibit 362 and 381

    2:13pm picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381

    2:15pm-3:15pm ST is driving from Greenbay back to Mishicot

    2:24pm Steven avery calles her *67 *Exhibit 362, 360 and 381

    2:27pm Auto Trader calls Teresa and she supposedly said she was on her way to the Avery Brothers.
    *Exhibit 362 and 381

    2:30pm BoD testifies to seeing Teresa Pull up take the pictures and walk back towards SA's for payment.
    2:45pm Bod Testifies to leaving at this time and still seeing TH's Rav outside, but not her.

    2:35pm Steve calls Teresa using the *67 blocking feature but it dont connect to her phone. *Exhibit 360

    2:41pm Unknown call and CFNA is used. Last known time she acutally uses her own phone itself.

    3:00pm JoZ testifies that TH came around this time on Oct 31, 2005, She is reminded she don't really know, she didnt wear a watch and that eventually becomes 2-2:30pm by the time they are done. 10-15mins.

    3:10pm ST statement sees BoD who was passing him to hunt behind ST's house and ST was headed to his
    Hunting Stand
    3:30pm ST arrives at his Stand somewhere in the woods unknown.

    3:30-3:40pm Bus Driver LB testifies to seeing a woman taking pictures of a van that day.

    3:30-4:00pm A truck driver reports seeing a car like TH's leave the yard within this time.

    4:35pm Steve calls Teresa w/no feature and her bill reflects 13 seconds his 00 seconds.
    *Exhibit 362, 360 and 381

    4:45pm Cingular Wireless testifies her phone is powered down at this time.

    5:00-5:30 BJ arrives home BD is home so is BlD.

    5:15-5:30 ST arrives to pick up BJ, Avery is standing outside with BJ and son of BJ's he dont know?

    5:20pm BlD leaves to go out with friends family trick or treating.

    5:36pm Call from County Jail recorded with JS 15 mins

    5:57pm Steven calls his brother CA and talks for about 5 minutes *Exhibit 360

    6:00pm BlD's Boss calls up to talk to him but gets BD. He states BlD is not home.

    7:00pm BD gets a call to come by SA's place. (was this a call made on SA's House phone?"

    7:30-7:45pm ST drops BJ off at her home on AVery Rd.

    8:00pm ST arrives home

    8:47pm Call form County Jail Recorded with JS 15 mins

    9:00pm BJ arrives at ST's Home This changes after the first statement to 8:30 and then 8pm.

    9:20pm Steven calls BJ but last 00seconds. *Exhibit 360

    11:00-12:00am BJ leaves ST and goes back to her home. This changes in his 3rd to her staying the night.

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