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  1. #1
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    LIST Evidence or Facts NOT presented in Netflix Documentary *No Discussion*

    Hello Sleuthers!
    I have not followed this case from the beginning, I simply binge watched the Netflix documentary this past week. Since watching the documentary, I have read some blogs online that detail facts or evidence that was not included in the documentary.

    Can we all work together to compile a list?

    We will probably need to include a link to MSM with each item. I will update this post as items are added so we have a full list to reference.

    many thanks.

  2. #2
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    shadowraiths is offline LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Specialist, infoSec Architect
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    CNN video: Police Department: Making a Murderer leaves out crucial evidence



    Forensic Psychology Portal

    I tend to disappear from Websleuths from time to time.
    If I do, you can usually find me on
    Twitter.


  3. #3
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    William Newhouse, a gun expert with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, said he couldn't conclusively link a bullet found in a crack in Avery's garage to a .22-caliber rifle seized from his bedroom, but the bullet found under an air compressor in Avery's garage was likely fired from it. That was the bullet that a state DNA expert said had Halbach's remnants on it.

    Newhouse testified that the bullet could not have been fired from any other gun. He also said that all 11 cartridge casings found in Avery's garage were fired from the .22-caliber rifle.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/p...363819121.html

  4. #4
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    Manitowoc County Circuit Judge Patrick Willis would not allow Dawn Pliszka, an Auto Trader receptionist at the time, to testify about one of Halbach’s previous encounters with Avery.

    “She had stated to me that he had come out in a towel,’’ Pliszka said while the jury was outside of the courtroom. “I just said, ‘Really?’ and then she said, ‘Yeah,’ and laughed and said kinda ‘Ew.’’’

    Willis said he could not allow the testimony because the date wasn’t clear and few details were known about the alleged encounter.

    http://chippewa.com/news/victim-s-co...2beccd56e.html

  5. #5
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    "What did the documentary leave out?

    Steven Avery showed an interest in raping, torturing, and killing women before he was exonerated in 2003. According to Kratz, an inmate who knew him during his 18-year stint in prison for the rape he did not commit in 1985 came forward to say Steven had talked about building a “torture chamber” once he was released so he could rape and kill women. Steven also allegedly told another inmate that burning a body would be a good way to dispose of it.
    My opinion? Take this with a grain of salt–why would we believe other criminals making these statements? They could be saying these things in hopes for a lighter sentence, and we have already seen the state’s shoddy interrogation tactics first hand."

    http://jenniferjslate.com/2016/01/04...rer-leave-out/

  6. #6
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    Excerpt from Michael Griesbach's The Innocent Killer - Steven's domestic violence incident (edit: for some reason Jodi is referred to as "Carla Schwartz" in his book):


    And Steve had another strike against him, one not shared by most former offenders trying to stitch their lives back together after serving their time. Because his conviction and sentence had been vacated, when he walked out of prison, he wasn’t placed on parole. That meant no supervision, no counseling, no weekly meetings with a parole agent who kept tabs on him, and no support.

    So the joy of freedom faded after a while and things started taking a turn for the worse. While he beat the predictions of the most pessimistic of the courthouse prognosticators, it wasn’t long until the “innocent man” had a few brushes with the law.

    The first one was just a speeding ticket. The officer clocked him at seventy-nine in a fifty-five-mile-per-hour zone. The rookie ADA handling the case must have figured the county owed him one, because he amended the ticket to defective speedometer and Avery promptly paid the fine.

    Later it got more serious. Steve had taken up with a similarly lost soul by the name of Carla Schwartz, the woman whose drunk driving charge Steve later tried to derail. They met at a convenience store and apparently it was love at first sight. But the honeymoon didn’t last long because a few months later, Carla had to call the police. She had moved in with Steve, and one weekend when he was up north, he found out she was out at the races but she hadn’t let him know she was going out.

    When Carla came home a little after eleven that night, she and Steve got into an argument. She told him “to pack his **** up and move out,” at which point he pushed her, causing her to fall into a chair and hit her head. Avery got on top of her and started hitting her, telling her he should kill her. Carla was able to get up to call 911, but before she could talk to the dispatcher, Steve ripped the phone out of the wall and began choking her to the point where she lost consciousness. When she came to, he dragged her out to the car by her arms and said, “I should get the gun and kill you.”

    In light of the conflict of interest stemming from Avery’s wrongful conviction lawsuit, Mark farmed out that case to a local attorney who agreed to serve as a special prosecutor. Due to discrepancies between Carla Schwartz’s original version of the events and what she told the officer a few days later, as well as her request to drop the charges, the special prosecutor directed the police to issue a disorderly conduct citation instead of issuing criminal charges. Somehow the media never got wind of it, and as far as the public was concerned, Steven Avery was still a hero.

    Griesbach, Michael (2014-07-03). The Innocent Killer: A True Story of a Wrongful Conviction and its Astonishing Aftermath (Kindle Locations 3384-3398). American Bar Association. Kindle Edition.

    Note: Michael Griesbach is the Manitowoc ADA who helped Steven Avery get exonerated in 2003.

  7. #7
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    Another excerpt from Michael Griesbach's The Innocent Killer - Steven's perjury incident (edit: for some reason Jodi is referred to as "Carla Schwartz" in his book):

    The first time I saw him was in connection with the arrest of his then-newfound girlfriend, Carla Schwartz, for drunken driving. The case came up for trial almost a year after the incident, and Steve was the star witness for the defense.


    Carla had put her car in the ditch out on Reifs Mills Road. She crawled out ofthe car after the crash and walked up to a nearby farmhouse to call a friend for a ride home, but when they pulled into Carla’s driveway, a county sheriff’s deputy was patiently awaiting her arrival. Carla started crying. “Yes, I was driving,” she told the officer, “I was alone at the time.” She said she got into an argument with her boyfriend and she was driving around to clear her head. “I went in the ditch because it was so damn foggy,” she blurted out.


    It was the fifth time she’d been busted for drunk driving, which even in Wisconsin is a felony, and she had six other criminal convictions on her record, too— disorderly conduct, resisting an officer, misdemeanor theft, and other similar petty offenses. Her blood alcohol concentration this time was a healthy .285— more than three times the legal limit— and it was the drunken driving charge that would net her the most time.


    I knew the case was coming up on my trial calendar, but I hadn’t given it much thought until I received a letter from Steven Avery. The letter was handwritten and it wasn’t easy to read, but the gist of it was that Carla didn’t put the car in the ditch; he did. If the cops would just do their job and investigate, Steve wrote, they’d know what happened and he and his sweetheart wouldn’t be in such a pickle. He said he didn’t want to get involved, but he couldn’t take Carla being in jail anymore— he loved her and wanted to marry her.


    The day for trial arrived and there was Steve, in the same courtroom where Judge Hazlewood sentenced him nearly twenty years earlier. We hadn’t yet met, but I knew what he looked like and I think he knew who I was, too. His girlfriend’s attorney and I exchanged a few pleasantries and then the judge called in the jury.


    Steve told the same tall tale at trial as he did in his letter to me. He and Carla met each other for the very first time at the Uni-Mart out on Highway R that night, and after some small talk, Carla asked him to go for a ride. He said he didn’t have anything else to do that night, so he took her up on the offer. Even though it was Carla’s car, he drove. He told the jury they aimlessly drove around the county for a while, and then Carla asked if he would take her out to the salvage yard to show heraround. A junked vehicle was blocking the entrance, so he used Carla’s car to push it out of the way, but he hit the gas too hard and the car slipped off the bumper and rammed into the front end of the junked car. With Carla’s car still drivable, Steve continued, they went for another ride, but then the fog rolled in, and after missing a turn he put Carla’s car in the ditch. He said he called his sister to come get them, but Carla said she was going home and she started walking the other way.


    But his story wasn’t believable, and the jury didn’t buy it. Carla had already told the arresting officer several times that she was the driver, and she never said a word about anyone else being with her. So she was convicted, and a few months later Judge Hazlewood placed her on probation and gave her nine months in the county jail.

    Griesbach, Michael (2014-07-03). The Innocent Killer: A True Story of a Wrongful Conviction and its Astonishing Aftermath (Kindle Locations 3079-3082). American Bar Association. Kindle Edition.

    Note: Michael Griesbach is the Manitowoc ADA who helped Steven Avery get exonerated in 2003.


  8. #8
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    1. SA's Sweat/Perspiration DNA on hood of RAV4
    "They don't know what it is" interview with the film makers 4.17 (http://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/...598845507868);
    "That could have been transferred from his skin...also from any other surface that had his DNA...or and there is testimony on this, from a glove of the Division of Criminal investigator who didn't change gloves after handling the inside of the car which included SA's blood and then touched the hood..." Dean Strang on CNN 1:50

    2. None of Avery's fingerprints were found on the RAV4 -Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Mar 8, 2007 (https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,3242420&hl=en)

    3. SA requested for Teresa Halbach, specifically to come out to the auto lot

    4. The media and public did not know about BD's coerced confession - they were operating under the illusion that he had confessed and was working out a plea-deal (Interview with Reporter Agnette Levy)
    http://www.fortthomasmatters.com/201...-local-12.html

    5. An anonymous e-mail was sent to LE stating that body parts were burned in a smelter - Buting wanted to show this e-mail to highlight investigative bias - Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Mar 8, 2007 (https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,3242420&hl=en)

    6. "John Leurquin, who delivers propane for Valders Co-op, says he was filling up at a station nearby at around 3:30 p.m. that day and saw a green sports utility vehicle leave the property, but he didn't see who was driving". http://www.wsaw.com/news/headlines/6386482.html

  9. #9
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    Additional information left out: http://www.maxim.com/entertainment/m...-kratz-2015-12

    1. According to Kratz 2 witnesses saw SA "putting that stuff" (camera and other contents of her purse) in his burn barrel.

    2. "He (SA) created diagram of a torture chamber, [telling other inmates] "I intend to torture and rape and murder young women" after his release. The judge decided not to allow that evidence; he said it was too prejudicial."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by missy1974 View Post
    Interesting, I hadn't read that before, thanks eve! I wonder who seen that? I have been reading BD's trial documents, it wasn't mentioned in there and of course, with no SA transcripts yet, we might not know until then.

    ETA: I'm referring to #1
    Just done more research and found some references:

    "I seen Steven Avery walking to the burn barrel with a plastic bag in his hand and he dropped it in there" Blaine Dassey (Ref: Transcript of the Jury Trial Day 6, Case No 06 CF 88: April 21, 2007). The court transcript also states that Blaine Dassey testifies in the SA case where he provides this information.

    Robert Fabian testified in the SA case that he was riding on a golf cart with Earl Avery and spoke with SA near the burn barrel at about 5.20 pm. He mentioned a fire and the odour of burning plastic (No primary reference yet, as it is testimony given during the SA case proper - however this information is cited by a secondary source here (:http://www.convolutedbrian.com/the-d...ery-trial.html ). Some additional information gathered from this site:
    "Dassey stated that he looked into the burn barrel and observed a cell phone and camera in the barrel" - taken from Criminal Complaint against BD

    Therefore, former DA Kratz's comment above is one of many 'half-truths' - no one saw SA dispose of TH's cell phone, camera and palm pilot. Blaine saw him throw something in the burn barrel, Fabian saw a lit barrel that emanated an odor and BD asserted he saw the phone and camera in the burn barrel.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalSleuth View Post
    Hello Sleuthers!
    I have not followed this case from the beginning, I simply binge watched the Netflix documentary this past week. Since watching the documentary, I have read some blogs online that detail facts or evidence that was not included in the documentary.

    Can we all work together to compile a list?

    We will probably need to include a link to MSM with each item. I will update this post as items are added so we have a full list to reference.

    many thanks.
    Great work, thanks everyone.
    I was hoping to update this original post with a list, but it seems I don't know how to do that! I know on another forum I can edit my post, which is what I planned to do, can anyone tell me how to do it?

    Having everything in one post by Evidence type or Fact type, is very helpful for quick reference.

  12. #12
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    Ask a mod to help you with that.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoyalSleuth View Post
    Great work, thanks everyone.
    I was hoping to update this original post with a list, but it seems I don't know how to do that! I know on another forum I can edit my post, which is what I planned to do, can anyone tell me how to do it?

    Having everything in one post by Evidence type or Fact type, is very helpful for quick reference.
    Great idea that would be so helpful.
    It's really easy to edit posts here.
    However, there is a short time frame in which you can edit.
    If you are thinking a long term editing, if you pm a moderator, they may be able to help you.
    As far as short term editing...

    At the very bottom of your post on the right hand side going from right to left there are four options, the first is Multi-Quote This Message, the second is Reply With Quote, the third is Reply and the fourth and last is Edit Post. Add or edit you post, then select save, there is a box to explain your reason for the edit, but it's optional.
    Last edited by Wysteria; 01-15-2016 at 04:52 PM. Reason: added information
    ~all of my posts are imo~

  14. #14
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    I'm noticing a very common thing that gets noted and questioned by those who have only watched the documentary , is the luminol hit.

    There was a luminol hit on a 3x3 spot in the garage. This gets discussed in the dassey trial. The defense accepts this hit, and asks if it could also potentially be deer blood, to which the expert answers yes.

    This gets discussed in many threads, and I don't want to have the same discussion again about all the details here.

    It's just factually not mentioned in the documentary.

  15. #15
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    This fact was not mentioned in the show.

    Unknown male DNA was found on item CX . It also tested positive for blood. It is listed as a questioned stain recovered from quarry south of Avery road.

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