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  1. #136
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    Ok folks...
    I've always leaned towards ST/BD doing the deed OR RH. ( in the beginning anyway )
    After reading all I can I strongly lean toward RH.
    RH had
    MEANS, MOTIVE, AND OPPORTUNITY.
    RH has been caught in various lies, changed his story a " couple" of times, received multiple SUSPICIOUS ( IMO ) calls from LE, " GUESSED " Teresa's VM password, deleted voicemails, lead the search, ( all the while giving Godly Pam the ONLY camera ) ummm..oh, his hands looked a bit suspicious, and the way he was allowed to just hang out on the property during the course of the investigation does NOT sit well with me. Is that normal police procedure in WI?
    Oh, he OMITTED that he was Teresa's EX and SIGNED in as Ryan KILLGAS.
    My apologies if I've missed anything😊
    There is the possibility ( being the open minded girl that I am ) that the amazing Zellner has a plan..and the system is so darn slow anyway😔
    Perhaps, is it possible she is naming RH to get people TALKING?
    I still think ST could be suspect, as well as SB ( roommate )
    Hell with the way the investigation wasn't conducted the man on the moon could have done it.
    JMO

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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by dexter75 View Post
    Ok folks...
    I've always leaned towards ST/BD doing the deed OR RH. ( in the beginning anyway )
    After reading all I can I strongly lean toward RH.
    RH had
    MEANS, MOTIVE, AND OPPORTUNITY.
    RH has been caught in various lies, changed his story a " couple" of times, received multiple SUSPICIOUS ( IMO ) calls from LE, " GUESSED " Teresa's VM password, deleted voicemails, lead the search, ( all the while giving Godly Pam the ONLY camera ) ummm..oh, his hands looked a bit suspicious, and the way he was allowed to just hang out on the property during the course of the investigation does NOT sit well with me. Is that normal police procedure in WI?
    Oh, he OMITTED that he was Teresa's EX and SIGNED in as Ryan KILLGAS.
    My apologies if I've missed anything��
    There is the possibility ( being the open minded girl that I am ) that the amazing Zellner has a plan..and the system is so darn slow anyway��
    Perhaps, is it possible she is naming RH to get people TALKING?
    I still think ST could be suspect, as well as SB ( roommate )
    Hell with the way the investigation wasn't conducted the man on the moon could have done it.
    JMO

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    Hi dexter, i agree that RH looks pretty darn suspicious in all that has been revealed about him and those fingernail looking scratches on his hand about sealed the deal for me too. But because so much was not investigated at the time i think it at least needs a do over of the whole case.
    I find it interesting that Steven Avery said himself who he thought was responsible for setting him up, and he had his reasons for stating that and i don't think he was thinking of RH but BoD & ST because of taking over ASY and whatever other reason he mentioned.
    He could be right and would be interesting if they both were friendly with RH at all? They could all of been complicit to some extent IMO.
    *FREE LEONARD PELTIER*
    Justice for an innocent man.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    In the dasey trial, the defense says that he helps steven clean the garage and helps with the bonfire, that starts at about 6-ish all the way to evening where barb calls for him to come home.

    Defense accepts that brendan was there to gather things for the fire, clean the garage, and tend to the bonfire.


    Prosecution contends that dassey was there much earlier as well, which is when they believe rape/murder would have occurred, with brendan bringing mail to steve's house and hearing her scream.
    I'm new to this case, and your post made me see the police motives with BD, the accused, a different way. I have NOT seen or read even 15% of what there seems to be out there for information, just fyi. The way you posed this, it made it clearer to me why the police pushed BD because he was hanging out with SA practically all evening, and the police decided it meant BD had to be in on it.

    If these two did not do it, then all they were trying to do was clean up, hang out and have the bonfire that the uncle promised. I don't know what my opinion is, but I find it hard to believe that anyone would plan a murder by creating a traceable link between him and the victim such as an appointment.
    "If Jodi's lips are moving...if her pen is moving...then she lie, lie, lies!"

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by missy1974 View Post
    yep, and I think that is because for the most part, it's the one's closest to the victim. Not always... but I think a lot of us that follow missing person cases, we look at the husband/wife/bf/whoever first, right?

    I can't wrap my head around her last call at 2:41 still. The indication is that incoming calls were then forwarded to her VM.... why would she do that??? Could someone who could uhmmm "guess" her password do that remotely from a computer? (I think so back in 2005) Would someone know that if her phone was forwarded to VM, it wouldn't ping anymore? Would it ping still? (wish we had those records!!!!!) That CFNA code really bothers me, I wish we had more phone records for her and could see if this was something she would do... and maybe understand why she would do that? I could see her doing it when she was doing photo's at a wedding or something, not to be bothered by a ringing phone, I don't know why she would do it randomly in the middle of the afternoon though. And she sure did check her voicemail lots... even when it seems she had no calls in between her last call and her checking her VM.
    Someone called the police and said they saw TH taking pics of a cow in a field. The police seemed not to take it seriously, though they said they'd look into it. It was by Valder farm, I think. Well, guess where her phone last pinged for two hours? 2:41pm at the tower near that farm. Its in a Transcript of Remiker's call to Wiegert November 5, 2005 9:03 a.m.

    If her job had just tried to call her at 227pm, it is reasonable that she would forward her phone, so it didn't ring, so she wouldn't spook the cow. Did she remember to turn it back on? Who knows.

    I personally suspect she was telling Dawn that she was on her way out of Avery's, not on her way to Avery's. So if that's true, it would make sense that she forwarded her phone and took pics of the cow around 241pm. It would also be near Zipperer's, and she supposedly got there at 3pm.

    I just don't know right now how she would have figured out where Zipperer's was between the 212pm voicemail and 245pm.


    Quote Originally Posted by missy1974 View Post
    Now thinking about it.... and because I was reading some testimony that I hadn't read yet today. Manitowoc county officers, and a few Calumet... and Fassbender, they were there that afternoon kept insisting that they could indeed see that RAV4 from down by the crusher when they were down there. It was repeated many times during testimony... because well ya know.... no one went near it, they were sure cuz they could see it. I'm thinking about it and... if CA/SA/EA were down by the crusher, doing what they do... crushing cars... it's almost harder to believe they wouldn't notice it if it was as within eyesight like LE said, if it was parked there on the 31st. IMO they knew that property like the backs of their hands.... they lived there, they worked there, it was their life.

    From posts I have seen about Pam Sturm and not questioning why she went to that corner (the one's that don't believe that God showed her the way), I think it might have been Nocturnal that said they would have gone to that corner first too... so interesting that it was a "focal point" or drew someone's attention that easily.... that was also the place someone "hid" the RAV4.

    I still don't have a solid theory of who could have done it... there are so many options (if it's not SA).
    I just got a crazy thought. What if SA found the car hidden on his lot? He didn't put it there, but he found it. He was like, "What the heck?" Maybe he did go in it and maybe he took the key and locked it to keep his family out of it, so they wouldn't get any DNA in it, but he did not know that he put blood in it. He was innocent, but he couldn't tell anyone that he went in the car because, as you see how interrogations go, it might get worse for him.. He could have burned up her stuff, since he'd touched it, and kept the key so he could crush the car. He could have washed the key fob, but still left some DNA on it. It would be my guess that he'd rather crush the car and get rid of it than tell the police because of what happened last time.

    Please Note. This is a crazy thought off the top of my head, not meant for me to assert as a defendable theory.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 08-02-2017 at 12:39 AM.
    "If Jodi's lips are moving...if her pen is moving...then she lie, lie, lies!"

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Someone called the police and said they saw TH taking pics of a cow in a field. The police seemed not to take it seriously, though they said they'd look into it. It was by Valder farm, I think. Well, guess where her phone last pinged for two hours? 2:41pm at the tower near that farm. Its in a Transcript of Remiker's call to Wiegert November 5, 2005 9:03 a.m.

    If her job had just tried to call her at 227pm, it is reasonable that she would forward her phone, so it didn't ring, so she wouldn't spook the cow. Did she remember to turn it back on? Who knows.

    I personally suspect she was telling Dawn that she was on her way out of Avery's, not on her way to Avery's. So if that's true, it would make sense that she forwarded her phone and took pics of the cow around 241pm. It would also be near Zipperer's, and she supposedly got there at 3pm.

    I just don't know right now how she would have figured out where Zipperer's was between the 212pm voicemail and 245pm.




    I just got a crazy thought. What if SA found the car hidden on his lot? He didn't put it there, but he found it. He was like, "What the heck?" Maybe he did go in it and maybe he took the key and locked it to keep his family out of it, so they wouldn't get any DNA in it, but he did not know that he put blood in it. He was innocent, but he couldn't tell anyone that he went in the car because, as you see how interrogations go, it might get worse for him.. He could have burned up her stuff, since he'd touched it, and kept the key so he could crush the car. He could have washed the key fob, but still left some DNA on it. It would be my guess that he'd rather crush the car and get rid of it than tell the police because of what happened last time.

    Please Note. This is a crazy thought off the top of my head, not meant for me to assert as a defendable theory.
    Perhaps. It IS possible.
    IMO I just think SA would have fessed up/cracked/confessed to finding it. ( RAV )
    I could be wrong..idk.. I just think from all we know about him he would have said as much.
    Welcome welcome btw

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  6. #141
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    Yeah, I was thinking SA would tell them as I was typing that.

    According to Colborn, he talked to SA on Thursday Nov 3rd and he told Colborn that TH had been there btw 2-230pm. That would have been the first time SA would have been alerted that she was missing. Colborn says that SA said he hadn't talked to her. She took the pics and she left. I don't know if SA has contradicted Colborn's statement, and it's worth mentioning that Colborn didn't even write this up until the following summer. So I don't know about trusting what he says occurred in the conversation, especially if he was calling in the car tag as if it was routine and he was looking at the car, but then the car is not found for two more days.

    I just have a serious problem with Colborn right now, and even if SA was tight-lipped to Colborn, I know why. It's because SA knows Colborn was involved in railroading him the last time. And Colborn apparently didn't ask if SA had seen her talk to anyone. It wasn't in the short report he wrote on it freaking 8 months later.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 08-03-2017 at 09:53 PM.
    "If Jodi's lips are moving...if her pen is moving...then she lie, lie, lies!"

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Yeah, I was thinking SA would tell them as I was typing that.

    According to Colborn, he talked to SA on Thursday Nov 3rd and he told Colborn that TH had been there btw 2-230pm. That would have been the first time SA would have been alerted that she was missing. Colborn says that SA said he hadn't talked to her. She took the pics and she left. I don't know if SA has contradicted Colborn's statement, and it's worth mentioning that Colborn didn't even write this up until the following summer. So I don't know about trusting what he says occurred in the conversation, especially if he was calling in the car tag as if it was routine and he was looking at the car, but then the car is not found for two more days.

    I just have a serious problem with Colborn right now, and even if SA was tight-lipped to Colborn, I know why. It's because SA knows Colborn was involved in railroading him the last time. And Colborn apparently didn't ask if SA had seen her talk to anyone. It wasn't in the short report he wrote on it freaking 8 months later.
    Yes!

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  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Yeah, I was thinking SA would tell them as I was typing that.

    According to Colborn, he talked to SA on Thursday Nov 3rd and he told Colborn that TH had been there btw 2-230pm. That would have been the first time SA would have been alerted that she was missing. Colborn says that SA said he hadn't talked to her. She took the pics and she left. I don't know if SA has contradicted Colborn's statement, and it's worth mentioning that Colborn didn't even write this up until the following summer. So I don't know about trusting what he says occurred in the conversation, especially if he was calling in the car tag as if it was routine and he was looking at the car, but then the car is not found for two more days.

    I just have a serious problem with Colborn right now, and even if SA was tight-lipped to Colborn, I know why. It's because SA knows Colborn was involved in railroading him the last time. And Colborn apparently didn't ask if SA had seen her talk to anyone. It wasn't in the short report he wrote on it freaking 8 months later.
    This reminds me of something I was thinking the other day...

    isn't it odd that no one called Barb's? it's not in any LE report... it's not in RH's phone records.... SB doesn't say he called... even the employees of AutoTrader don't mention calling Barbs phone number, which they had, we know they did. They called everyone else she was supposed to see on the 31st, and even the one's she was supposed to see on the 3rd to see if she showed up. But not one person called Barb's????

  9. #144
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    Right. I'm reading the police reports now, trying to figure out what the police did.

    I'm confused by the phone number thing with B janda's number being written as Steven Avery's at night they reversed looked up numbers with TH's friends, but another officer Dedering had listed it as Thomas Janda. So far in reading the reports, I do not see where they called Janda.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 08-04-2017 at 03:58 AM.
    "If Jodi's lips are moving...if her pen is moving...then she lie, lie, lies!"

  10. #145
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    I wasn't sure where to put this, so I decided to use this thread.

    I was reading in CASO some information, and some of it was contradictory, and some of it just very interesting as a foundation for an alternative theory.

    First, Ryan H told Investigators on page 31 of the report that Teresa moved there a year prior, November 2004. But another one was of her friends was interviewed and said she hadn't talked to Teresa in a month because that's when Teresa had moved back to her home town. On page 6, Scott says they lived together 8 or 9 months.

    Then, another of teresa's friends clears the room at TH's house to tell investigators about the married man situation. What's interesting about him is that he texted TH on October 31st. at 1245pm. I really hate that we don't have a text record. Page 44-45. He called her about 917pm on the 3rd, and her vm was full. He volunteered that TH had slept with Scott.

    Steven #3 of Sheboygen called Rachel Haggs at AT around 430-5pm on 11/3 and mentioned that Scott had called him, accusing him of something to do with the missing TH. So, if apparently, Scott and company were on the case with the cell records before the police got there because police weren't alerted until about that same time of day that day.

    I don't see any official interviews with the roommate, Scott. I'm really surprised by how the police didn't want to know more about TH's relationships with these three men, SB, RH, and BC.

    I'm interested to know if she might have agreed to meet BC somewhere to talk after she'd finished at the Zipperer's.

    What I find weird, too, is how RH seems to know what cell reception is like up around the Avery's. Why is he experienced with it?

    Then there is her cousin, D Beach, page 57, who went to the salvage yard 11/4/05 and talked to Steven directly. I thought they said no one had been to the Avery property to search for TH before Pam Sturm?

    I do not like the way Pagel explains he got the call from Pam. He says he had heard about the family and friends search party. He and the officers were about to go to ASY to get permission from Steve to search when Pam called. Pam got to the search party meeting late. By the time she got to the yard, it was almost 10am. So why did the police just then, at about 1020-1030am decide to leave to get permission to search the Avery yard? Especially if rain was expected that day? When did they find out about the search? How are the police not on top of what this search party is doing?
    "If Jodi's lips are moving...if her pen is moving...then she lie, lie, lies!"


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