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View Poll Results: Is Steven Avery responsible for the murder of Teresa Halbach?

Voters
542. You may not vote on this poll
  • He did it

    152 28.04%
  • Some other guy did it

    35 6.46%
  • Looks guilty at this point

    55 10.15%
  • Not guilty based on evidence I've seen thus far

    115 21.22%
  • Undecided, but believe new trial is in order

    184 33.95%
  • Undecided all around; more information required

    32 5.90%
Multiple Choice Poll.

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~n/t~ View Post
    Gosh I must've fallen asleep or something when I watched the documentary....where are you getting the information about the handcuffs & towel, etc and Teresa visiting on Oct 9th ? If he answered the door wearing just a towel, wouldn't you think that would freak her out? Why would she go back to that property?

    *confused*
    Link to handcuffs and leg irons thread

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=298706

    TH told a friend about the towel story. The friend said she wasn't really rattled by it. Thought it was creepy, but kind of laughed it off with an "Eewww". I'll look for the link.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessie View Post
    Link to handcuffs and leg irons thread

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=298706

    TH told a friend about the towel story. The friend said she wasn't really rattled by it. Thought it was creepy, but kind of laughed it off with an "Eewww". I'll look for the link.

    Thanks bessie. I found this:


    Kratz, who prosecuted both Avery before resigning from his position as D.A. in 2010 following a sexting scandal, told PEOPLE on Tuesday that Avery "targeted" Halbach, citing Halbach's Oct. 10, 2005, visit to the property owned by Avery's family for a photo shoot for AutoTrader magazine. According to Kratz, Avery allegedly opened his door that day "just wearing a towel."

    "She was creeped out [by him]," Kratz said. "She [went to her employer and] said she would not go back because she was scared of him."

    At 8:12 a.m. on Oct. 31, the day Halbach was killed, Kratz said Avery called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send "that same girl who was here last time." He said that Avery knew Halbach was leery of him, so he allegedly gave his sister's name and number to "trick" Halbach into coming.

    This call to AutoTrader magazine on the day of Halbach's death was just one of the pieces of evidence Kratz cites as being left out of the Netflix series.

    http://www.people.com/article/making...utor-ken-kratz
    Justice for Holly Bobo🎀

  3. #33
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    Day 2, pp. 60-61, Dawn Pliszka (outside the presence of the jury)

    15 Q. Could you describe, first of all, the words that
    16 she used and then we will describe the
    17 circumstances surrounding that. So first tell us
    18 what she told you.

    19 A. After she was out there, around October 10th, it
    20 was like about a week or so after that, she had
    21 stated to me that he had come out in a towel.

    22 Q. He meaning whom?

    23 A. Steven Avery.

    24 Q. Had come out where?

    25 A. She didn't specify, she just said that he had
    1 come out, just in a towel.

    2 Q. All right. Did Ms Halbach describe for you
    3 anything else about that, any other details about
    4 seeing Mr. Avery in a towel?

    5 A. The only -- I just said, really, and she said,
    6 yeah, and she said, yeah, and she laughed and
    7 just said kind of, ewww, you know.

    8 Q. Okay. You said kind of what?

    9 A. Ewww.

    10 Q. Ewww.

    11 A. Yeah, just that.

    12 Q. I guess not in a positive way?

    13 A. Not in a positive way, no.

    14 Q. Did Ms Halbach -- or was she seeming to describe
    15 a specific event; in other words, was she
    16 remembering that event when she was describing it
    17 for you?

    18 A. Yes.

    From the judge's ruling, pp. 73-74

    20 And for that reason, while the decision
    21 is admittedly a close one, the Court is not going
    22 to allow the evidence in for the reasons I gave.
    23 The lack of specificity and the uncertainty as to
    24 exactly when the statement was made and the fact
    25 that different inferences could be drawn from it
    1 because there is so little information about its
    2 background.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1n...w?pref=2&pli=1
    __________________________________
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    ; Muddy water 'round my feet... as sung by the inimitable Bessie Smith, "Muddy Water (A Mississippi Moan)"

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessie View Post
    Day 2, pp. 60-61, Dawn Pliszka (outside the presence of the jury)

    15 Q. Could you describe, first of all, the words that
    16 she used and then we will describe the
    17 circumstances surrounding that. So first tell us
    18 what she told you.

    19 A. After she was out there, around October 10th, it
    20 was like about a week or so after that, she had
    21 stated to me that he had come out in a towel.

    22 Q. He meaning whom?

    23 A. Steven Avery.

    24 Q. Had come out where?

    25 A. She didn't specify, she just said that he had
    1 come out, just in a towel.

    2 Q. All right. Did Ms Halbach describe for you
    3 anything else about that, any other details about
    4 seeing Mr. Avery in a towel?

    5 A. The only -- I just said, really, and she said,
    6 yeah, and she said, yeah, and she laughed and
    7 just said kind of, ewww, you know.

    8 Q. Okay. You said kind of what?

    9 A. Ewww.

    10 Q. Ewww.

    11 A. Yeah, just that.

    12 Q. I guess not in a positive way?

    13 A. Not in a positive way, no.

    14 Q. Did Ms Halbach -- or was she seeming to describe
    15 a specific event; in other words, was she
    16 remembering that event when she was describing it
    17 for you?

    18 A. Yes.

    From the judge's ruling, pp. 73-74

    20 And for that reason, while the decision
    21 is admittedly a close one, the Court is not going
    22 to allow the evidence in for the reasons I gave.
    23 The lack of specificity and the uncertainty as to
    24 exactly when the statement was made and the fact
    25 that different inferences could be drawn from it
    1 because there is so little information about its
    2 background.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1n...w?pref=2&pli=1
    Is "ewwww" ever said in a positive way? Lol

  5. #35
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    NOTE: Everything is based soley off the documentary series. I have yet to "dig in" to any of the provided resources.

    At the moment, I lean towards NOT GUILTY. (And in any fair trial, he would have been found not guilty because there's not enough evidence to convict him. Hardly anything but circumstantial evidence, if that! And like the excused juror stated, the majority voted NOT GUILTY before he left to attend to a family emergency and he's still stunned/disturbed by the outcome of it all. And this was not a reaction from someone who saw the docu series, obviously.. being IN it, for those who say that anyone who thinks he's not guilty is basing it off just the docu series. A JUROR thought, with all the evidence presented, SA was not guilty. 7 of them, actually.)

    I don't believe that TH was murdered or burned on the Avery property. (If she was murdered in the bedroom, the mattress would have been soaked. Brendan, of course, made all that up. Then, it's suggested that it happened in the garage. Ah, that messy garage that people seem not to be able to understand or conveniently glance over: would have been IMPOSSIBLE to scrub down the fine blood splatter that would have resulted from gunshots. But they didn't find her blood there did they? Nope. They found SA's blood though... which is not shocking. Look at all the sharp rusty junk in there! You work in a junkyard, you're gonna cut yourself! It goes with the territory.

    I think LE/gov people who hated him SO much were staking out his place for some time. They saw that she was there taking photos for him like she'd done before and that later that day SA had a fire pit going. A light goes off in their heads: they thought up this horrific scheme to make sure they get that SOB SA once and for all! (Money is the root of all evil. LE/gov had more of a motive that SA did! We're talking SA suing for MILLIONS. That's BIG MONEY. People have done a lot worse for a lot less.)
    Yes, considering their hatred for the Averys, I wouldn't put any of this past them.

    An alternative is that someone she knew killed her and who better to be the scapegoat? Yup, the Averys of course! (How the ex-bf* acted set off all sorts of alarm bells for me when being interviewed. His nervousness, non-answers, etc. OK, maybe he's just a nervous person. *shrugs* Also, I would have liked to see the MALE roommate in the series. What was his deal? And it's so telling how there seemed to be practically no suspicion or questioning of the standard usual suspects: lovers, exs, roommates, friends, family, etc.) But after all this time, if it did happen else where, it just gave the guilty party more time to clean up.

    *Can someone clear this up for me: I saw two males in the courtroom audience. Her brother and a guy who looks just like him. Twins? That wasn't her ex-bf was it? And if not, how could he act concerned enough to get together a search party and then not show up for the trial??? ALSO, he gives TH's cousin the only digital camera knowing she would be searching the car lot.... almost as if he knew SHE would be the one to find the vehicle. Am I the only one who's suspicious of this!?

    You know who else didn't sit well with me? Scott Tadych, who was dating SA's sister Barb. His "he got what's comin' to him" statement was odd. Why? What did Scott have against him? Also, Tadych has a history of violence towards women. He put himself there on that day. AND it was Barb's van TH was coming to photograph. (Very interesting article...more possible suspects)

    Also, I don't recall anyone saying they heard gunshots. Hmmm. The Avery's lived close together. SA shoots TH and no one's gonna hear it? OK, if you say so...

    I don't believe SA is stupid. Or not THAT stupid. Maybe growing up, he wasn't the brightest bulb but I think being wrongfully imprisoned for 18 years has made him wiser. I see no true motive for him to commit this crime. He was constantly warned, and I'm sure he agreed, that LE was NOT done with him... so do you really think, with the possibility of being surveilled ay any time, he would have murdered this woman, left her burned up remains scattered about his property AND left her easily identifiable car, barely concealed, on his lot? (He had a car crusher. Why not use that??) C'mon, folks! 18 years if a long time to have stolen from you. You really think he would have risked the rest of his natural life to murder a woman for no apparent reason? Sure, maybe he just got cocky being released and all.

    Note: I binge watched the entire season 1 yesterday. Actually restarted my membership just so I could watch this.

    I really think there should be a new trial. I think his lawyers were intelligent and did a great job but at nearly every turn, there seemed to be a bias against the defense on the part of the judge.
    And like one of his lawyers said in the end, I actually hope I'm wrong and that he is guilty because the thought of an innocent man having this happen to him again, and this time for life with no possibility of parole, makes me sick.

    And as for Brendan... wow. Looking at his case... I think a lot of lawyers and LE should be held legally accountable for their manipulation of a boy who clearly was not very smart and easily manipulated. They took advantage of him. Sad, really.

    --------------------
    But THEN on the flip side, there's what wasn't in the documentary series. Like this. But is Jodi believable? She's now claiming on TMZ that SA "tied me to the bed too." Too? I feel that was a made up story from the start but...alright.

    And he burned a cat alive?! WTH... ok, maybe this is his karma....

    What a mess, all this.... My mind may be swayed looking at more evidence that was left out of the docu series.. but these are my immediate reactions.

  6. #36
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    Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

    So my comment apparently got deleted. It was not supposed to be taken as victim bashing. My point was that Teresa was clearly smart enough to know where she was going if the address was on Avery Road, and her employer didn't seem like he would send her back to a place she said she was uncomfortable. Not sure why I got censored on these points, but that's what I meant. If she was truly uncomfortable going back there, I think she would have refused the job.

  7. #37
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    If this isn't coercion at it's finest. Taking advantage of a "challenged" person to fit their agenda to try and show SA's involvement. What's sickens me is is that these are the people who were suppose to be defending BD and seeking the truth. IMO Len and O'Kelly are corrupt and were working for the prosecutors. For all their underhanded and slimy coercing, and lack of proper legal representation, during their time on his case, BD deserves a new and FAIR trial. MOO.

    Rest in peace Tori, Tim and Jeremy.

    "On May 6th, the devil led the vilest form of evil down my driveway and it smiled at me before it took Tim away." Good always triumphs over evil. Keep the faith, justice will prevail. .

  8. #38
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    What bothers me most is that if Avery is indeed guilty and Brendan is not, Avery lets a blood relative sit in prison waiting for some miraculous appeal that will free both of them. How could someone be so selfish, especially when his sister's life has been ruined ?

    DEFENDANT IS A LIAR + DEFENDANT'S KID GOES MISSING + DEFENDANT REPORTS KID MISSING AFTER 31 DAYS + KID IS FOUND DEAD = DEFENDANT KILLED KID

  9. #39
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    Avery had a great defense team who gave him a first class A++ defense during his trial, as well as leading up to the trial.

    Brendan had a bad public defender who was hellbent on getting him to cooperate with police, to BD's own detriment.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Avery had a great defense team who gave him a first class A++ defense during his trial, as well as leading up to the trial.

    Brendan had a bad public defender who was hellbent on getting him to cooperate with police, to BD's own detriment.
    Even more reason to believe Steven might be selfish ... I would've though that the $400,000 received in the civil settlement could have been used for Brendan's defense as well. Although I might be off on the costs ...

    DEFENDANT IS A LIAR + DEFENDANT'S KID GOES MISSING + DEFENDANT REPORTS KID MISSING AFTER 31 DAYS + KID IS FOUND DEAD = DEFENDANT KILLED KID


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDontSee View Post
    NOTE: Everything is based soley off the documentary series. I have yet to "dig in" to any of the provided resources.

    At the moment, I lean towards NOT GUILTY. (And in any fair trial, he would have been found not guilty because there's not enough evidence to convict him. Hardly anything but circumstantial evidence, if that! And like the excused juror stated, the majority voted NOT GUILTY before he left to attend to a family emergency and he's still stunned/disturbed by the outcome of it all. And this was not a reaction from someone who saw the docu series, obviously.. being IN it, for those who say that anyone who thinks he's not guilty is basing it off just the docu series. A JUROR thought, with all the evidence presented, SA was not guilty. 7 of them, actually.)

    I don't believe that TH was murdered or burned on the Avery property. (If she was murdered in the bedroom, the mattress would have been soaked. Brendan, of course, made all that up. Then, it's suggested that it happened in the garage. Ah, that messy garage that people seem not to be able to understand or conveniently glance over: would have been IMPOSSIBLE to scrub down the fine blood splatter that would have resulted from gunshots. But they didn't find her blood there did they? Nope. They found SA's blood though... which is not shocking. Look at all the sharp rusty junk in there! You work in a junkyard, you're gonna cut yourself! It goes with the territory.

    I think LE/gov people who hated him SO much were staking out his place for some time. They saw that she was there taking photos for him like she'd done before and that later that day SA had a fire pit going. A light goes off in their heads: they thought up this horrific scheme to make sure they get that SOB SA once and for all! (Money is the root of all evil. LE/gov had more of a motive that SA did! We're talking SA suing for MILLIONS. That's BIG MONEY. People have done a lot worse for a lot less.)
    Yes, considering their hatred for the Averys, I wouldn't put any of this past them.

    An alternative is that someone she knew killed her and who better to be the scapegoat? Yup, the Averys of course! (How the ex-bf* acted set off all sorts of alarm bells for me when being interviewed. His nervousness, non-answers, etc. OK, maybe he's just a nervous person. *shrugs* Also, I would have liked to see the MALE roommate in the series. What was his deal? And it's so telling how there seemed to be practically no suspicion or questioning of the standard usual suspects: lovers, exs, roommates, friends, family, etc.) But after all this time, if it did happen else where, it just gave the guilty party more time to clean up.

    *Can someone clear this up for me: I saw two males in the courtroom audience. Her brother and a guy who looks just like him. Twins? That wasn't her ex-bf was it? And if not, how could he act concerned enough to get together a search party and then not show up for the trial??? ALSO, he gives TH's cousin the only digital camera knowing she would be searching the car lot.... almost as if he knew SHE would be the one to find the vehicle. Am I the only one who's suspicious of this!?

    You know who else didn't sit well with me? Scott Tadych, who was dating SA's sister Barb. His "he got what's comin' to him" statement was odd. Why? What did Scott have against him? Also, Tadych has a history of violence towards women. He put himself there on that day. AND it was Barb's van TH was coming to photograph. (Very interesting article...more possible suspects)

    Also, I don't recall anyone saying they heard gunshots. Hmmm. The Avery's lived close together. SA shoots TH and no one's gonna hear it? OK, if you say so...

    I don't believe SA is stupid. Or not THAT stupid. Maybe growing up, he wasn't the brightest bulb but I think being wrongfully imprisoned for 18 years has made him wiser. I see no true motive for him to commit this crime. He was constantly warned, and I'm sure he agreed, that LE was NOT done with him... so do you really think, with the possibility of being surveilled ay any time, he would have murdered this woman, left her burned up remains scattered about his property AND left her easily identifiable car, barely concealed, on his lot? (He had a car crusher. Why not use that??) C'mon, folks! 18 years if a long time to have stolen from you. You really think he would have risked the rest of his natural life to murder a woman for no apparent reason? Sure, maybe he just got cocky being released and all.

    Note: I binge watched the entire season 1 yesterday. Actually restarted my membership just so I could watch this.

    I really think there should be a new trial. I think his lawyers were intelligent and did a great job but at nearly every turn, there seemed to be a bias against the defense on the part of the judge.
    And like one of his lawyers said in the end, I actually hope I'm wrong and that he is guilty because the thought of an innocent man having this happen to him again, and this time for life with no possibility of parole, makes me sick.

    And as for Brendan... wow. Looking at his case... I think a lot of lawyers and LE should be held legally accountable for their manipulation of a boy who clearly was not very smart and easily manipulated. They took advantage of him. Sad, really.

    --------------------
    But THEN on the flip side, there's what wasn't in the documentary series. Like this. But is Jodi believable? She's now claiming on TMZ that SA "tied me to the bed too." Too? I feel that was a made up story from the start but...alright.

    And he burned a cat alive?! WTH... ok, maybe this is his karma....

    What a mess, all this.... My mind may be swayed looking at more evidence that was left out of the docu series.. but these are my immediate reactions.
    Great post! I binged watched all 10 episodes as well. What you wrote is exactly how I feel.

    I never understood why they did not investigate anyone else? Why? Because "he was the last one to see her"; which I call BS in this case.

    We don't know he was the last one to see her. Also, if he did *67 on his calls to her that morning, I want to see the phone records. Maybe he did that with alot of his calls. She knew where she was going when she went there, so what is he hiding?
    "One man's logic is another man's crazy" - Rossi (Criminal Minds)

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sustained View Post
    Even more reason to believe Steven might be selfish ... I would've though that the $400,000 received in the civil settlement could have been used for Brendan's defense as well. Although I might be off on the costs ...
    Avery was arrested in Nov of 2005. Dassey was arrested in March of 2006. Lawyers have a way of eating up every last dime. You have to know they weren't charging only $40 an hour. I'm sure they were making good money, while that money lasted.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Avery was arrested in Nov of 2005. Dassey was arrested in March of 2006. Lawyers have a way of eating up every last dime. You have to know they weren't charging only $40 an hour. I'm sure they were making good money, while that money lasted.
    Even if BD had high-priced Chicago? lawyers, he never would of one won because he admitted being an accomplice.
    "One man's logic is another man's crazy" - Rossi (Criminal Minds)

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElleElle View Post
    Even if BD had high-priced Chicago? lawyers, he never would of one won because he admitted being an accomplice.
    That's probably true. SA, with his very qualified, seasoned, and committed defense team, still was convicted. And that jury did hear a defense case in which alleged tampering, possible planting, and conspiracy was introduced during cross examination of state witnesses. Yet that jury still voted unanimously to convict.

  15. #45
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    The burden of proof has now shifted to Steven Avery. He has to present "new evidence" that is strong enough to reach a level where no reasonable fact finder and/or juror would have convicted Avery of murder. That is a daunting task and speaks to Avery's inability to put a dent in the prosecution's case. The prosecution's case was impressive enough to convince a jury, a district court judge, 3 circuit court judges, and the Wisconsin Supreme Court that Steven Avery is guilty of murdering Teresa Halbach.

    If Avery wants to continue to charge law enforcement with malfeasance, provide concrete proof of that claim. If Avery wants to claim that his two brothers were the "real" murderers, provide tangible evidence of their involvement. Avery's task becomes even more daunting when you include logic into the legal equation. Who requested that Halbach photograph a vehicle on the Avery compound? Who called Halbach's place of business not once, but twice using Star 67? Who called Halbach's place of business a third time AFTER Halbach was murdered and asked why she didn't show up for the photography session? Wasn't that caller the SAME person who admitted to local reporters AND Nancy Grace that Halbach DID show up for the photography session?

    In essence, Avery's pathetic attempt at creating an alibi came back to haunt him as did his decision not to crush Halbach's vehicle. This latter decision to remove the license plates, lock the vehicle, and cover it with yard debris resulted in investigators recovering his DNA from under the hood, his blood in 6 places inside the vehicle, and Halbach's DNA in the form of a direct contact blood stain matching the morphology of human hair. As the story progresses, the holes in the Avery Is A Tortured Innocent narrative become larger and larger.

    Avery sets a huge fire in his backyard which lasts for several hours. Tires are found entwined with Halbach's bones in that SAME fire pit and a tire is found in a burn barrel located 20 feet from Avery's front door. Why are tires located in two separate locations? Tires are an accelerant and assist in the burning of Halbach's body, her digital camera, cellphone, and palm pilot. Five rivets from Halbach's pants and the tool used to mutilate her body were also found in the fire pit. It's also important to note that Avery had a history of deviant behavior which includes setting the family cat on fire, two women accusing Avery of raping them in 2004, and recent allegations by his ex-fiancÚ that he beat her.

    IMO, the evidence clearly demonstrates that Steven Avery murdered Teresa Halbach on 10/31/05. This includes his attempts to lure Halbach to his property; his attempts at creating an alibi; the inculpatory Touch and Nuclear DNA evidence; the victim's remains found in his backyard; the ballistics match; the victim's personal belongings found in a burn barrel on his property; and the victim's car being found on his property.

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