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  1. #16
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    I have a pair that look just that size... its a keyring.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Another factoid not mentioned in the documentary:

    Brendan told police Teresa was handcuffed to the bed and her legs were in leg irons, connected to the bed as well.

    Here's what was not told to the audience watching the documentary: In Avery's bedroom closet police found handcuffs and leg irons.
    Where are you getting this info from?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyraKelly View Post
    Where are you getting this info from?
    to be clear.... they were these, they were entered into evidence and did NOT have TH's DNA on them. They did test positive for SA's and another unknown person.

    fluffy handcuffs.jpg

  4. #19
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    The dassey trial has testimony of police finding handcuffs and leg irons at the Janda Residence , and there were also the same items found at the Steve Avery trailer.

    Also, should note that brendan was TOLD that these things existed before he ever mentioned them.

    But it is true that these items were not discussed as being found in either locations in the documentary.

    However, it was said in the episode 9 while cross examining :

    "The cuffs, the bullets, the shells, the shovels, the seat, everything that the government's paraded in here... none of these items have fingerprints, DNA or any other scientific evidence connecting Brendan Dassey to the death of Teresa Halbach, yes or no?"
    So that accepts that cuffs were found.

    It's also important to note that these were pink furry handcuffs, not something you'd expect to find in a musty torture chamber.

    Just to put it into perspective, heres an image, because I myself had a different image in my head when hearing the term leg irons


  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyraKelly View Post
    Where are you getting this info from?
    One place it's mentioned is in Kratz's opening statements at BD's trial. p.71

    Brendan Dassey Trial Tx - 2007 April 16 Day One
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Another factoid not mentioned in the documentary:

    Brendan told police Teresa was handcuffed to the bed and her legs were in leg irons, connected to the bed as well.

    Here's what was not told to the audience watching the documentary: In Avery's bedroom closet police found handcuffs and leg irons.
    If others have responded to this then sorry for the duplication.
    You need to take this information in reverse order to which the police are stating.
    The cops found handcuffs and leg irons in the bedroom, and then fed that info to Brendan during the interview/interrogation.
    There is no evidence she was ever on that bed. If she was held there by handcuffs and leg irons, and her throat cut, there would be blood spatter everywhere, blood pooling on the mattress, and skin DNA on the handcuffs and leg irons.
    As far as I've read, none of this evidence exists. Please correct me if wrong.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxManning View Post
    The dassey trial has testimony of police finding handcuffs and leg irons at the Janda Residence , and there were also the same items found at the Steve Avery trailer.

    Also, should note that brendan was TOLD that these things existed before he ever mentioned them.

    But it is true that these items were not discussed as being found in either locations in the documentary.

    However, it was said in the episode 9 while cross examining :



    So that accepts that cuffs were found.

    It's also important to note that these were pink furry handcuffs, not something you'd expect to find in a musty torture chamber.

    Just to put it into perspective, heres an image, because I myself had a different image in my head when hearing the term leg irons

    The pink furry handcuffs are not the ones found in Avery's house. They were found in the Janda/Dassey residence.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bessie View Post
    The pink furry handcuffs are not the ones found in Avery's house. They were found in the Janda/Dassey residence.
    That is true, but from the dassey trial transcripts you notice alot of trouble with one officer confusing one for the other, which led me to believe they were the same or at minimum similar.

    If someone can find an image that differentiates these, I'm open to seeing them. If they look drastically different, my opinion could definitely swing in the other direction again

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyesonly View Post
    If others have responded to this then sorry for the duplication.
    You need to take this information in reverse order to which the police are stating.
    The cops found handcuffs and leg irons in the bedroom, and then fed that info to Brendan during the interview/interrogation.
    There is no evidence she was ever on that bed. If she was held there by handcuffs and leg irons, and her throat cut, there would be blood spatter everywhere, blood pooling on the mattress, and skin DNA on the handcuffs and leg irons.
    As far as I've read, none of this evidence exists. Please correct me if wrong.

    Correct. But I do see the point of posting all this, because leaving out that the items were found is misleading. Otherwise people are far more likely to disregard the theory.

    Many believe as you do about brendan's testimony. But prosecution was selling to the jury it was relevant. Jury had more reason to believe the theory of the cuffs than the documentary viewer. it's a legit point. I think like you, we all were more responding to the assertion made regarding the cuffs in relation to brendan's statement by the user that posted them as missing from documentary.

  10. #25
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    I think the only difference between handcuff and leg irons is the length of the chain between the cuffs ? I could be wrong, just assuming based on what I have seen.

    Am I the only one that gets a vision of something more primitive when hearing the term leg irons ? Like something you'd find connected to a wall in a dungeon.

    I don't doubt that the term leg irons might be used for just that reason - just speculation though.


  11. #26
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    Question List of Evidence or Facts NOT presented in Netflix Documentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakidoll View Post
    I have a pair that look just that size... its a keyring.
    The following post in is regard to the item in the paper bag as depicted up thread in a photo and discussion of item:

    At first glance I thought that it was scissor handles.
    Ya, there are handcuff key rings and jewelry as well.
    Nancy Grace has a handcuff necklace iirc.
    Additionally; I see both key rings and jewelry while shopping in brick and mortar stores and online.

    I'm trying to put everything together; which is daunting to say the least.
    My original "system" to organize the facts in this case became flawed and would take far too long to redo.

    Has it been established for certain what exactly the item is?
    Is there any legal inventory or legal document describing what that item is?
    Sorry if asked and answered, there are so many questions and not enough answers.
    According to the title of the thread I presume that this item was in some sort of list of evidence?

    Again, a legal document list; not MSM, authored books, witness statement etc.. list.
    A concise legal document listing this particular item since that's how my "system" was designed.

    As an aside; the photo depicted in court during the trial of the pink fuzzy handcuffs (photo up thread), appears to me to be something that would be more of a (trying to think of a delicate way to explain) toy, fun sex play sort of thing.
    It's hard to imagine (for me at least), that they were used to viciously and brutally restrain, torture and murder the victim.

    My gut feeling is that the incident never happened, and from what I know of the testimony, evidence etc... I have reasonable doubt that the incident ever happened.
    ~all of my posts are imo~

  12. #27
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    I remember the handcuffs and leg irons being mentioned in the series, because I remember them stating that it didn't make sense that she was tied down, raped and throat cut on the bed because there was no physical DNA evidence.
    There would have been blood and semen on the bed and blood spatter over quite a large area if they cut her throat on the bed as they got Brendan to say.
    So all the evidence leads to the police finding these restraint items and then building a fantasy scenario and taking advantage of a young man with a very low IQ.
    How could anyone let this stuff go on with this young kid. Any of his so called confessions should have been shredded by the judge.
    The evidence planting was so blantant that even if Steven is truely guilty, he should not be convicted because of the actions of LE.
    Because when they are allowed to do this kind of stuff at will, then no one is safe, not you nor I.
    10 guilty must go free in order that we do not put one innocent person behind bars.
    Yet, it has never worked this way. The system is about convictions. Especially from the crowns viewpoint. If they feel they have enough to convict, they will put the full weight and resources of their office behind it, doesn't matter about guilt or innocence.
    Convictions are what eases society, and gets people re-elected.

  13. #28
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    Madeleine74 is online now Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    The evidence planting was so blantant
    Planting has been suggested, but so far not proven. Believing it could have happened or might have happened is not the same as proving it did happen, and without proof, I don't know how far the defense can go with this.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Another factoid not mentioned in the documentary:

    Brendan told police Teresa was handcuffed to the bed and her legs were in leg irons, connected to the bed as well.

    Here's what was not told to the audience watching the documentary: In Avery's bedroom closet police found handcuffs and leg irons.
    THIS answers the most pressing question I have had about the crime scene, or potential crime scene, as handcuffs and leg irons were insinuated in a very brief preview of the Netflix saga, ( sorry but I can't call it a documentary at this point) then never mentioned again in connection to the crime.
    The photos I saw of his bed didn't have any handcuffs or leg irons, I enlarged the photos and looked very carefully. I have been wondering if their one- time mention of it was a ratings draw or if there was truth to this. I haven't been able to find the info in court docs. but I haven't read all search warrants and property list of what was removed from the house.

    Oh,wait: Since this is such a weird case all around, DID LE remove these things from the closet and from the house after obtaining a proper search warrant??

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingJana View Post
    THIS answers the most pressing question I have had about the crime scene, or potential crime scene, as handcuffs and leg irons were insinuated in a very brief preview of the Netflix saga, ( sorry but I can't call it a documentary at this point) then never mentioned again in connection to the crime.
    The photos I saw of his bed didn't have any handcuffs or leg irons, I enlarged the photos and looked very carefully. I have been wondering if their one- time mention of it was a ratings draw or if there was truth to this. I haven't been able to find the info in court docs. but I haven't read all search warrants and property list of what was removed from the house.

    Oh,wait: Since this is such a weird case all around, DID LE remove these things from the closet and from the house after obtaining a proper search warrant??
    Keep reading I think they were only briefly mentioned in the documentary because it added up to a whole lot of nothing IMO. They can dangle handcuffs and leg irons (who calls them that???) all they want, there was still no DNA on them, but there was SA's and other unknown persons DNA.

    TH's DNA was NOT found on them as far as I know. There is a link to the forensic lab analysis' that were posted online.

    Here is a link to some documents related to SA's case:
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...No-Discussion*

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