1391 users online (192 members and 1199 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 3 of 46 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 13 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 686
  1. #31
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    10,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Itsmevkb View Post

    So, somehow, Avery gets a pass on his entire criminal history but Kratz doesn't. Avery should be free but Kratz should be badgered and have his life and business destroyed. I just can't quite wrap my head around that logic.
    Good observations! I like hearing (reading) how others view this situation.

    Kratz got a jury to convict Avery. Avery had been branded as the fallen 'hero'-- a martyr for a prior wrongful conviction, despite the other crimes Avery did commit. So Kratz is hated because he did the unthinkable. Kratz is also a sleazy slimebucket in his personal dealings, but even if he wasn't he'd be in the hot seat of hatred.

    If Avery is innocent he should not be in prison.

    However, throwing everyone else under the bus without evidence is doing exactly what it's claimed LE did.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wales UK
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by Limaes View Post
    Found another shot of the cut on his finger. The location of the cut answers two pieces of evidence imo. His DNA got on the KEY when he put it into the ignition, which also transferred his BLOOD very close to the ignition.
    That certainly sounds like the most logical conclusion to me.
    IMO it also accounts for why TH's DNA was absent from the key.

    If he left very obvious and visible blood on the key, it only stands to reason that he would make an effort to clean it up, thus also removing TH's DNA in the process.
    And there are a multitude of scenarios where he could deposit more of his own DNA on the key after cleaning it - Most obvious being using a cloth or something of his own with his DNA on in the clean up or simply handling the key after the event.

    Incidentally, I can't completely discount the possibility that the key was moved to a more 'convenient' location to tie the crime more closely to SA, but the above scenarios are a lot more plausible to me than LE acquiring a spare key and somehow rubbing it in SA's DNA.

    I'd been of the opinion that SA may have kept hold of the key because it would be required in the final disposal of the RAV4 (detaching it from the rest of the set of keys and dumping those that weren't needed) but I've since read that the battery was found disconnected which was normal protocol for crushing cars.
    Is there a reputable source for this?
    And does anyone know how this works and how 'disconected' cars would normally be moved to the crusher?
    Sarah

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    7
    I would have also thought she would have had paperwork in her car for the Auto Trader and maybe even some other jobs. I think he kept the spare key and cleaned any trace of her off it like he cleaned everything out of her car that would have looked obvious like it belonged to her.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah View Post
    That certainly sounds like the most logical conclusion to me.
    IMO it also accounts for why TH's DNA was absent from the key.

    If he left very obvious and visible blood on the key, it only stands to reason that he would make an effort to clean it up, thus also removing TH's DNA in the process.
    And there are a multitude of scenarios where he could deposit more of his own DNA on the key after cleaning it - Most obvious being using a cloth or something of his own with his DNA on in the clean up or simply handling the key after the event.

    Incidentally, I can't completely discount the possibility that the key was moved to a more 'convenient' location to tie the crime more closely to SA, but the above scenarios are a lot more plausible to me than LE acquiring a spare key and somehow rubbing it in SA's DNA.

    I'd been of the opinion that SA may have kept hold of the key because it would be required in the final disposal of the RAV4 (detaching it from the rest of the set of keys and dumping those that weren't needed) but I've since read that the battery was found disconnected which was normal protocol for crushing cars.
    Is there a reputable source for this?
    And does anyone know how this works and how 'disconected' cars would normally be moved to the crusher?
    Agree. His finger was bleeding, if it was found close to the ignition, then it was on the key too. When washing his blood from it, he also washed Teresa's DNA off it too.

    I believe he was rudely shocked when the car was found. He either kept the key as a souvenir, or he was keeping it for Plan B. If he couldn't crush the car, he was going to drive it off the property and dump it somewhere.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,308
    I'm completely convinced of his guilt. I too feel that he thought he was untouchable when he committed this murder. He was meeting all these powerful people and having a bill named after him. Some say that's why he wouldn't do this because he had so much going for him. I on the other hand feel it's just who he is. He knew he would be able to claim they framed him, only it didn't work. There is nothing normal about dousing a cat in gas and throwing it on a fire. That IMO is a show of true colors and just plain sick.

    While I can not nail down exactly what happened, I can say the totality of evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt. Is it beyond all doubt? Absolutely not. What I've noticed while reading opinions on this case is that people try and single out each piece of evidence and explain it away. That is wrong IMO, in every case excuses and reasons can be made for single pieces of evidence. What does the whole picture look like though? That's what matters.

    It's much more reasonable for me to conclude that AC was checking his info on her car when he called about the plate than to say he stumbled on a vehicle of a girl that had been missing 3 days, hours after she was reported missing and before anyone else. That a perfect situation to frame SA landed in his lap. The same explanation is also more reasonable IMO than her ex or brother having ACs number and calling him personally about finding the car, rather than the guys actually working THs missing person report.

    The bones in the burn pile is what does it completely for me. I believe he pulled a couple of the larger bones out of the pile and left the fragments that weren't clearly identifiable as bones. Why else would someone else have gathered all the tiny fragments enough that there was a piece of every bone in her skeleton from the neck down (teeth and jean rivets included) and left or placed the larger ones elsewhere? A long bone and collarbone were in the burn barrel and the pelvic bone was at the quarry. I mean it's clear that it wasn't obvious bones were in the pit, it went unnoticed for days during searches. Even looking at pictures, most people would never know those fragments were bones. Not to mention her personal belongings were burned in his burn barrel.

    The bleach used in that garage is a huge one too. Its hard to believe looking at the pictures that bleach had ever been used to clean anything in that filthy garage, besides that night.

    There is just an over whelming amount of coincidences that had to occur during this time frame to prove SAs innocence.
    He just happened to have a bonfire burning tires the night TH went missing and her body was burned.
    He just happened to spill something on the floor of his garage that needed to be cleaned with bleach.
    He just happened to get a large cut capable of bleeding a lot on his hand.
    He just happened to be unlucky enough to be framed by the police and the real killer?

    Those are a few of my thoughts.

  6. #36
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    10,242
    <modsnip>

    The bones in the burn pile is what does it completely for me. I believe he pulled a couple of the larger bones out of the pile and left the fragments that weren't clearly identifiable as bones.
    B.I.N.G.O. Amber29!

    And, he didn't use only bleach. Allegedly he used paint thinner and gasoline in addition to the bleach, all to attempt to clean that area. Hinky!
    Last edited by shadowraiths; 02-12-2016 at 04:30 AM. Reason: removed speculation of why other posters feel the way they do

  7. #37
    shadowraiths's Avatar
    shadowraiths is offline LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Specialist, infoSec Architect
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,867
    All, it's really great that there are different points of view. However, please do not presume to know why other people hold views that oppose yours. Thanks!



    Forensic Psychology Portal

    I tend to disappear from Websleuths from time to time.
    If I do, you can usually find me on
    Twitter.


  8. #38
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    10,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Amber29 View Post

    While I can not nail down exactly what happened, I can say the totality of evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt. Is it beyond all doubt? Absolutely not. What I've noticed while reading opinions on this case is that people try and single out each piece of evidence and explain it away. That is wrong IMO, in every case excuses and reasons can be made for single pieces of evidence. What does the whole picture look like though? That's what matters.

    Yes, totality! Juries are instructed to consider all the evidence presented to them, and doing that is following the guidance in jury instructions as communicated by the judge.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Johns Creek
    Posts
    1,613
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Yes, totality! Juries are instructed to consider all the evidence presented to them, and doing that is following the guidance in jury instructions as communicated by the judge.
    Good thing for the wrongfully convicted that the totality of the evidence presented to the jury is not necessarily the totality of the evidence available.

    DEFENDANT IS A LIAR + DEFENDANT'S KID GOES MISSING + DEFENDANT REPORTS KID MISSING AFTER 31 DAYS + KID IS FOUND DEAD = DEFENDANT KILLED KID

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    132
    Evidence that doesn't get presented to juries can work both ways. Sometimes it's things that aren't known at the time of the trial, like in Avery's rape case where DNA was not yet a readily available and accepted science. And then there are things that are known by the prosecutor, defense attorney and the court but are never presented to the jury because under the rules of evidence they are kept out. Often times this works in the defendants favor as it is things like their past criminal history.

    I've seen interviews with jurors who when told something that was kept out of the trial say things like well, had I known that I would have definitely convicted/not convicted the defendant. It's a hard job we give juries. Although I find many cases fascinating, I'm sort of glad I've never been picked to be on a jury because the weight of that responsibility would be overwhelming to me.


  11. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by Amber29 View Post
    I'm completely convinced of his guilt. I too feel that he thought he was untouchable when he committed this murder. He was meeting all these powerful people and having a bill named after him. Some say that's why he wouldn't do this because he had so much going for him. I on the other hand feel it's just who he is. He knew he would be able to claim they framed him, only it didn't work. There is nothing normal about dousing a cat in gas and throwing it on a fire. That IMO is a show of true colors and just plain sick.

    While I can not nail down exactly what happened, I can say the totality of evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt. Is it beyond all doubt? Absolutely not. What I've noticed while reading opinions on this case is that people try and single out each piece of evidence and explain it away. That is wrong IMO, in every case excuses and reasons can be made for single pieces of evidence. What does the whole picture look like though? That's what matters.

    It's much more reasonable for me to conclude that AC was checking his info on her car when he called about the plate than to say he stumbled on a vehicle of a girl that had been missing 3 days, hours after she was reported missing and before anyone else. That a perfect situation to frame SA landed in his lap. The same explanation is also more reasonable IMO than her ex or brother having ACs number and calling him personally about finding the car, rather than the guys actually working THs missing person report.

    The bones in the burn pile is what does it completely for me. I believe he pulled a couple of the larger bones out of the pile and left the fragments that weren't clearly identifiable as bones. Why else would someone else have gathered all the tiny fragments enough that there was a piece of every bone in her skeleton from the neck down (teeth and jean rivets included) and left or placed the larger ones elsewhere? A long bone and collarbone were in the burn barrel and the pelvic bone was at the quarry. I mean it's clear that it wasn't obvious bones were in the pit, it went unnoticed for days during searches. Even looking at pictures, most people would never know those fragments were bones. Not to mention her personal belongings were burned in his burn barrel.

    The bleach used in that garage is a huge one too. Its hard to believe looking at the pictures that bleach had ever been used to clean anything in that filthy garage, besides that night.

    There is just an over whelming amount of coincidences that had to occur during this time frame to prove SAs innocence.
    He just happened to have a bonfire burning tires the night TH went missing and her body was burned.
    He just happened to spill something on the floor of his garage that needed to be cleaned with bleach.
    He just happened to get a large cut capable of bleeding a lot on his hand.
    He just happened to be unlucky enough to be framed by the police and the real killer?

    Those are a few of my thoughts.
    That is pretty much what I think too. I don't feel that it was a crime of opportunity. I feel it was pre-meditated murder. He was/is a cunning and dangerous person.

    He purchased the leg restraints the day before her second last visit. Was he considering putting his plan into action then? He claims to have purchased them to use on Jodi, but she still had months to serve out her sentence. Why not purchase them when she was out, or just before? It is too much of a coincidence for me,that he purchased them the day before a young girl was coming to his property and this same girl was found dead outside his trailer a few weeks later.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    3,310
    I read this last night in the DECISION AND ORDER ON STATE'S MOTION TO ALLOW THE INTRODUCTIONOF NINE ITEMS OF OTHER ACTS EVIDENCE...

    Specifically, the Court has taken into consideration the extensive publicity this case has received, including news reports on filings in
    the Clerk of Courts office, as well as the defendant's stated desire to have his case tried by a jury composed of Manitowoc County residents if possible.

    Can anyone shed some light on this? In my opinion, he was just setting himself up for a "the jury pool is tainted" position, but I'm wondering if this is common practice or out of the ordinary.

    If it were me, I wouldn't want Manitowoc County residents because I would think they have been tainted by the media coverage. I would want it tried in--lets say Madison County and hope to get someone who had not heard about the case.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,490

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by ArianeEmory View Post
    He lost me at "threw cat in fire".

    Honestly, the fad of heavily edited "injustice porn" is starting to make me feel like I'm living in bizarro world, after so many years of following true crime.
    Just piping in to say 'great post' and that his thread is a breath of fresh air. If LE really did frame SA, why did they go through the trouble of burning her remains on his property (right outside his door no less)? They could have just dumped her body, her belongings and her SUV anywhere on that property and still had a case against this guy. Why would they take the chance that her remains would not be identifiable by burning her body? It just doesn't make any sense. It also bothers me that now people are sleuthing other people related to this case (i.e., Teresa's ex boyfriend is one good example) that have absolutely no evidence connecting them to SA's property or Teresa's murder. I would hate to see a truly innocent person get caught up in all this nonsense thanks to unsubstantiated message board conspiracy theories.
    Last edited by Hez; 02-19-2016 at 03:36 PM. Reason: Added something.
    Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    I read this last night in the DECISION AND ORDER ON STATE'S MOTION TO ALLOW THE INTRODUCTIONOF NINE ITEMS OF OTHER ACTS EVIDENCE...

    Specifically, the Court has taken into consideration the extensive publicity this case has received, including news reports on filings in
    the Clerk of Courts office, as well as the defendant's stated desire to have his case tried by a jury composed of Manitowoc County residents if possible.

    Can anyone shed some light on this? In my opinion, he was just setting himself up for a "the jury pool is tainted" position, but I'm wondering if this is common practice or out of the ordinary.

    If it were me, I wouldn't want Manitowoc County residents because I would think they have been tainted by the media coverage. I would want it tried in--lets say Madison County and hope to get someone who had not heard about the case.
    Well thats interesting...hmm!

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by Hez View Post
    Just piping in to say 'great post' and that his thread is a breath of fresh air. If LE really did frame SA, why did they go through the trouble of burning her remains on his property (right outside his door no less)? They could have just dumped her body, her belongings and her SUV anywhere on that property and still had a case against this guy. Why would they take the chance that her remains would not be identifiable by burning her body? It just doesn't make any sense. It also bothers me that now people are sleuthing other people related to this case (i.e., Teresa's ex boyfriend is one good example) that have absolutely no evidence connecting them to SA's property or Teresa's murder. I would hate to see a truly innocent person get caught up in all this nonsense thanks to unsubstantiated message board conspiracy theories.
    Colborn & Lenk are the biggest targets when it comes to the framing conspiracy. Neither of them were involved in the wrongful conviction and prior to the murder, Lenk agreed that Avery was entitled to compensation.

    Conspiracy theorists overlook that when initially speaking to Avery on the 3rd & 4th, both were of the opinion that he wasn't involved. The imagination has to stretch beyond reasonable thought to believe they set him up.

Page 3 of 46 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 13 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss
    By MysticJynx in forum Netflix Series: Making A Murderer
    Replies: 1799
    Last Post: Today, 10:12 AM
  2. The Key: Planted or Not? Impact?
    By ferretnurse in forum Netflix Series: Making A Murderer
    Replies: 412
    Last Post: 09-17-2017, 02:19 PM
  3. LATEST EVIDENCE Discuss NEW AND DEVELOPING information here
    By JBean in forum Caylee Anthony 2 years old
    Replies: 406
    Last Post: 12-25-2008, 01:18 PM
  4. New evidence and items found ; Discuss and UPDATE INFO HERE
    By nursebeeme in forum Caylee Anthony 2 years old
    Replies: 244
    Last Post: 12-18-2008, 11:08 AM

Tags for this Thread