1101 users online (193 members and 908 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 5 of 47 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 15 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 691
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,490

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Limaes View Post
    We were shocked too when we were experimenting! It was a significant cut that dripped blood not only in the car, but in his bathroom.

    My son is an apprentice butcher and he cut his finger at work one morning. I was showing him our little experiment and asked him if he thought the blood would reach that part of the hand. He said it was very likely because when he injured himself the blood ran down past his wrist, but he had been holding it upright and wasn't moving it around.

    I feel it seeped from the cut and down his palm. All he had to do was move his hand around. Most people would tend to it sooner but I guess he had things to do.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
    This is very compelling and I appreciate that you provided a plausible explanation for how his blood was transferred to that particular area in the car.
    Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - John Lennon

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by slashkiss View Post
    This isn't exactly accurate though. I cut my hand pretty terribly this past year and required 26 stitches. They rinse the area with all kinds of stuff before suturing and after. In this picture the sutures are already there being that blood is very watered down. I remember how my mother-in-law took a picture of my hand immediately after they finished suturing and it looked far worse then when I went in due to all the watered down blood covering my hand and everything on the tray.

    I'm not debating that the cut on his finger couldn't have produced that much blood just pointing out that this picture would not be an accurate representation of the amount of blood a cut that size would produce without going through the cleaning and suturing process.
    Great point slashkiss! I didn't think of that when I saw the pic.

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    If he left that blood, as it appears, I believe he didn't realize it. I'm assuming it was dark out and that would make it harder to notice such a thing. As for the crusher, it does make sense that such a tool would be eventually utilized to get rid of that big piece of evidence. Any thoughts as to the ability of one person alone being able to maneuver and manage getting a car into the crusher?
    I'm guessing usually one person to operate the tractor and another to operate the crusher although its possible for one person to do both.

    Its interesting that they don't always crush just one car at a time. As this video shows, once the third car is crushed, you can not even see the 2nd one. Makes you wonder if that is what may have happened if Pam didn't find the car.

    https://youtu.be/QuvPWGfAyo0

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,234
    This is on the Avery property.You can see cars already crushed by the Averys.

    https://youtu.be/Qf5KuBaWICk

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

  5. #65
    shadowraiths's Avatar
    shadowraiths is offline LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Specialist, infoSec Architect
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,867
    I'm in the camp that believes SA murdered Ms. Halbach, though I disagree with the prosecution's narrative. Why? Due to the gross lack of evidence required to support his narrative. One that, by the way, was in part, the result of a coerced confession of a mentally challenged teen.

    So, ignoring the lurid faux narrative that, afaics, arose from none other than a sexual predator's mind [see footnotes], the most damning evidence, imho, are the cremains. While I believe the key & slug may have been planted to bolster the prosecution's case, I do not believe the cremains, her SUV, or his blood were planted.

    Moreover, while not presented to the jury, SA does have a history of behavior that arguably fits with the crime. For example, the cat incident, running his cousin's car off the road, brandishing a gun, and wholly inappropriate public sexual displays. Furthermore, a younger relative had come forward prior to Ms. Halbach's death, alleging he sexually abused her. That I understand, the case never made it to court bc they were trying the murder case. In other words, SA has long shown chronic inappropriate behavior towards women, to include coming to the door in a towel, as reported by one of Ms. Halbach's co-workers.

    As for Ms. Halbach's murder? I have long felt he followed her, made a pass, she refused his advances, and in anger, he struck out, accidentally killing her. That is, I do not think she was murdered in his trailer or garage, or even shot, or that her murder was in any way, shape or form, premeditated. Rather, it was the heat of the moment blitz attack coming from someone with little, to no, impulse control. To my mind this explains the smears of her blood in the trunk of her car. Importantly, as has been noted elsewhere, SA has a very low IQ. Within the context of this case, this means he would not think everything through. So, in attempt to hide the evidence (her body), he burned her remains in his back yard and hid her vehicle as opposed to crushing it. This is congruent with someone who does not think very far ahead.

    And finally, the retired FBI profiler in the 'Real Crime Profile' podcast, that I linked above, provided a very plausible explanation regarding why the cremains were found in multiple locations, as well as why there was no smell of burning flesh, etcetera. These, by the way, were the biggest problems that I, personally, had with the case. Especially the cremains found at the Radnant quarry. However, if, as this man suggests, her remains were not completely destroyed, I could see him putting those in the burn barrel, as well as trying to empty the barrel in the quarry. It would also go a long way to explain why one of the cadaver dogs hit on the golf cart (i.e., he used the cart to carry the barrel to the quarry).

    That being said, while I have no problem considering alternative scenarios that do not involve SA, in all, and unless Zellner finds something that actually exonerates this man, I will continue to believe he is the killer.

    And finally, while I do believe he is the killer, I also think he did not get a fair trial.

    Footnotes:

    1. The prosecutor admitted he was a sex addict [see page 15 of OLR disciplinary hearing]

    2. The prosecutor showed a persistent pattern of sexually harassing women [see page 10 of OLR disciplinary hearing]

    3. The prosecutor put on an offensive media show while completely ignoring the feelings and privacy of the Halbach family.

    4. Sexual addictions do not spring up over night, the prosecutor's protestations notwithstanding.
    Last edited by shadowraiths; 02-26-2016 at 12:30 AM. Reason: grammar



    Forensic Psychology Portal

    I tend to disappear from Websleuths from time to time.
    If I do, you can usually find me on
    Twitter.


  6. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    SK, Canada
    Posts
    3,943
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post



    And finally, the retired FBI profiler in the 'Real Crime Profile' podcast, that I linked above, provided a very plausible explanation regarding why the cremains were found in multiple locations, as well as why there was no smell of burning flesh, etcetera. These, by the way, were the biggest problems that I, personally, had with the case. Especially the cremains found at the Radnant quarry. However, if, as this man suggests, her remains were not completely destroyed, I could see him putting those in the burn barrel, as well as trying to empty the barrel in the quarry. It would also go a long way to explain why one of the cadaver dogs hit on the golf cart (i.e., he used the cart to carry the barrel to the quarry).


    shadowraiths... is this in episode 2? I really don't have the time to listen to them all but will try to listen later because I have seen some discussion elsewhere about this too (debunking his theory), but I would like to hear it for myself

  7. #67
    shadowraiths's Avatar
    shadowraiths is offline LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Specialist, infoSec Architect
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,867
    Quote Originally Posted by missy1974 View Post
    shadowraiths... is this in episode 2? I really don't have the time to listen to them all but will try to listen later because I have seen some discussion elsewhere about this too (debunking his theory), but I would like to hear it for myself
    I listened to them back to back, so I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it's episode 2.



    Forensic Psychology Portal

    I tend to disappear from Websleuths from time to time.
    If I do, you can usually find me on
    Twitter.


  8. #68
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post

    4. Sexual addictions do not spring up over night, the prosecutor's protestations notwithstanding.
    With regards to Kratz you might be right. However, I think it's important to note that there are prescription drugs that can cause addictions, such as shopping, gambling and hyper sexuality in people who previously have shown no such addictions or even tendencies. It's actually pretty shocking when you read about it. We don't tend to think of those kind of things as side effects but they are and it's for a multitude of drugs, not just one.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
    I posted a link to these podcasts in the media thread. Thought I would post them, here, as well. Still listening to the first "Real Crime Profile" podcast. Have listened to "The Dockett." These are purely opinion pieces but definitely interesting.

    Real Crime Profile, hosted by two ex-FBI profilers:



    The Dockett, hosted by two Canadian Attorneys:

    I have just listened to the discussion regarding the separate locations of the bones and the blood & fingerprints.

    His explanation of the bones is the most plausible scenario I have come across. I believe he is correct.

    He also raised a good point about the key. The key fob wasn't hers! That would explain why her DNA wasn't on it. Certainly food for thought!

    Regarding the blood and no fingerprints. He could have worn a glove on his left hand and wrapped his injured hand in some sort of bandage/rag. It would explain why blood was still seeping but no fingerprints were left. It would also explain how his DNA was on the hood latch. People have said that they have rubbed something Avery was wearing on the hood latch to plant his DNA. If he was wearing a bandage/rag then he transferred it himself.

    Thanks for the link shadowraiths

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk

  10. #70
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Pure Michigan
    Posts
    2,208
    IMO,

    Makes no sense..

    Let me stick a glove on my left hand and be "so" careful and just wrap the other cuz it's seeping blood/wounded??

    I get the glove probably wouldn't fit over a rag, however to think " I need gloves " wouldn't he do a better job than a rag?

    But then of course this makes sense for the DNA but no print theory, IMO
    Quote Originally Posted by Limaes View Post
    I have just listened to the discussion regarding the separate locations of the bones and the blood & fingerprints.

    His explanation of the bones is the most plausible scenario I have come across. I believe he is correct.

    He also raised a good point about the key. The key fob wasn't hers! That would explain why her DNA wasn't on it. Certainly food for thought!

    Regarding the blood and no fingerprints. He could have worn a glove on his left hand and wrapped his injured hand in some sort of bandage/rag. It would explain why blood was still seeping but no fingerprints were left. It would also explain how his DNA was on the hood latch. People have said that they have rubbed something Avery was wearing on the hood latch to plant his DNA. If he was wearing a bandage/rag then he transferred it himself.

    Thanks for the link shadowraiths

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk


  11. #71
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Pure Michigan
    Posts
    2,208
    I know drugs can cause MANIA ( certain drugs, that is )

    leading to; addiction,
    be it gambling, shopping, alcohol, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Itsmevkb View Post
    With regards to Kratz you might be right. However, I think it's important to note that there are prescription drugs that can cause addictions, such as shopping, gambling and hyper sexuality in people who previously have shown no such addictions or even tendencies. It's actually pretty shocking when you read about it. We don't tend to think of those kind of things as side effects but they are and it's for a multitude of drugs, not just one.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    3,310
    Quote Originally Posted by Limaes View Post
    This is what we could manage. We had problems with lighting, but hopefully you see what I mean. On the left is my daughter's hand an the other is mine.

    As you can see, she has a short peak (for want of a better word) and mine is long and narrow. I think this explains why the blood looks pooled in two spots due to the crease.

    Wow! That's incredible!!

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    3,310
    Quote Originally Posted by Limaes View Post
    Either he didn't care (he intended to crush the car) or it was dark and didn't realise how much of his blood he left behind. My opinion is at the time, his full intention was to crush the car.



    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
    I tend to agree with this!

  14. #74
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Pure Michigan
    Posts
    2,208
    Why do you think, in your opinion, if you have thought about this

    did LE keep the coroner away,
    nearly all photo's of bones and/or the " pit " are non existent,
    why no EXPERT examination of crime scene and bones before they were moved? Even first responders ( so to speak ) wouldn't photograph. When asked why, they responded with something like the crime scene had been altered.

    I DO value your opinion & knowledge when it comes to such things =) I am asking because of you saying the cremains were a big deal for you. Wondering what your take is on this? Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
    I'm in the camp that believes SA murdered Ms. Halbach, though I disagree with the prosecution's narrative. Why? Due to the gross lack of evidence required to support his narrative. One that, by the way, was in part, the result of a coerced confession of a mentally challenged teen.

    So, ignoring the lurid faux narrative that, afaics, arose from none other than a sexual predator's mind [see footnotes], the most damning evidence, imho, are the cremains. While I believe the key & slug may have been planted to bolster the prosecution's case, I do not believe the cremains, her SUV, or his blood were planted.

    Moreover, while not presented to the jury, SA does have a history of behavior that arguably fits with the crime. For example, the cat incident, running his cousin's car off the road, brandishing a gun, and wholly inappropriate public sexual displays. Furthermore, a younger relative had come forward prior to Ms. Halbach's death, alleging he sexually abused her. That I understand, the case never made it to court bc they were trying the murder case. In other words, SA has long shown chronic inappropriate behavior towards women, to include coming to the door in a towel, as reported by one of Ms. Halbach's co-workers.

    As for Ms. Halbach's murder? I have long felt he followed her, made a pass, she refused his advances, and in anger, he struck out, accidentally killing her. That is, I do not think she was murdered in his trailer or garage, or even shot, or that her murder was in any way, shape or form, premeditated. Rather, it was the heat of the moment blitz attack coming from someone with little, to no, impulse control. To my mind this explains the smears of her blood in the trunk of her car. Importantly, as has been noted elsewhere, SA has a very low IQ. Within the context of this case, this means he would not think everything through. So, in attempt to hide the evidence (her body), he burned her remains in his back yard and hid her vehicle as opposed to crushing it. This is congruent with someone who does not think very far ahead.

    And finally, the retired FBI profiler in the 'Real Crime Profile' podcast, that I linked above, provided a very plausible explanation regarding why the cremains were found in multiple locations, as well as why there was no smell of burning flesh, etcetera. These, by the way, were the biggest problems that I, personally, had with the case. Especially the cremains found at the Radnant quarry. However, if, as this man suggests, her remains were not completely destroyed, I could see him putting those in the burn barrel, as well as trying to empty the barrel in the quarry. It would also go a long way to explain why one of the cadaver dogs hit on the golf cart (i.e., he used the cart to carry the barrel to the quarry).

    That being said, while I have no problem considering considering alternative scenarios that do not involve SA, in all, and unless Zellner finds something that actually exonerates this man, I will continue to believe he is the killer.

    And finally, while I do believe he is the killer, I also think he did not get a fair trial.

    Footnotes:

    1. The prosecutor admitted he was a sex addict [see page 15 of OLR disciplinary hearing]

    2. The prosecutor showed a persistent pattern of sexually harassing women [see page 10 of OLR disciplinary hearing]

    3. The prosecutor put on an offensive media show while completely ignoring the feelings and privacy of the Halbach family.

    4. Sexual addictions do not spring up over night, the prosecutor's protestations notwithstanding.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    3,310
    Quote Originally Posted by Limaes View Post
    I'm guessing usually one person to operate the tractor and another to operate the crusher although its possible for one person to do both.

    Its interesting that they don't always crush just one car at a time. As this video shows, once the third car is crushed, you can not even see the 2nd one. Makes you wonder if that is what may have happened if Pam didn't find the car.

    https://youtu.be/QuvPWGfAyo0

    Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
    SA admits to crushing one of the cars during his interview on November 9th. In a lot of his statements he states that both he and Earl crush the cars, but in this particular interview he does not say he was accompanied by Earl.

    Steven advised he had crushed the blue car that was in the crusher, but could not remember when he did it. Steven said it was not Friday, but said t was not there that long and it could have been the week before. Steven said he mostly takes cars out of the crusher after crushing them, but he was in a hurry.

    http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-co...-2005Nov09.pdf

Page 5 of 47 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 15 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. For Those Who Do Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss
    By MysticJynx in forum Netflix Series: Making A Murderer
    Replies: 1800
    Last Post: Today, 08:05 AM
  2. The Key: Planted or Not? Impact?
    By ferretnurse in forum Netflix Series: Making A Murderer
    Replies: 412
    Last Post: 09-17-2017, 02:19 PM
  3. LATEST EVIDENCE Discuss NEW AND DEVELOPING information here
    By JBean in forum Caylee Anthony 2 years old
    Replies: 406
    Last Post: 12-25-2008, 01:18 PM
  4. New evidence and items found ; Discuss and UPDATE INFO HERE
    By nursebeeme in forum Caylee Anthony 2 years old
    Replies: 244
    Last Post: 12-18-2008, 11:08 AM

Tags for this Thread