Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

Please continue general discussion about the ongoing trial here until we open a new Trial thread on Monday morning, February 8, 2016

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MsSherlock #599 thread before

Since you're online ABro, maybe you can check this timeline and make sure it's accurate:

May 6th-Monday evening: TB goes on test drive-goes missing
May 7th-Tuesday: DM notifies staff not to go to hangar- for anything
May 7th-Tuesday: HPS release statement- TB is officially missing
May 8th-Wednesday-AJ goes to work and notices truck that matches TB's. AJ talks with his wife about it that night.
May 9th-Thursday-TB's phone is found in Brantford
May 9th-Thursday-AJ takes picture of truck and VIN number- calls CrimeStoppers-gets confirmation-holds family meeting that night and SS storms out of meeting.
May 9th- Thursday- in CN statement to LE, she assisted DM in moving trailer & truck to DM's mothers house and assisted moving incinerator into a stand of trees after they dropped trailer/truck off.
May 10th- Friday- early morning hours, CN statement to LE that she was with DM when he dropped off a locked tool box to a friends house.
May 10th- AJ goes to work at hangar and truck is gone- along with a car trailer.
May 10th, Friday- LE announce that they have located TB's phone.
May 10th, Friday- LE announce they're searching for 2 suspects and 1 has "ambition" tattoo on wrist where watch would be worn.
May 10th- Friday-LE visit the hangar after visiting another truck seller. Surveillance team put on hangar.
May 10th- AJ fired by DM. AJ gives statement to LE
May 10th- DM arrested on Cawthra Road
May 11th- late morning, LE make announcement of DM's arrest.

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Thank you for your list!

When was the incinerator brought to the barn on DM's farmland?
Why didn't say AJ something about the incinerator? Why did no one ask him?
Why seemed DM to be pissed of by MS, when AJ was present and noticed the obvicious dissension. What did happen between 6th and 8th May with their friendship?
Why did DM shake disapprovingly his head, when he heard that MS had said to his girlfriend, the truck owner had "gone-gone-gone"?

and why was the incinerator moved from inside the barn to the trees? Did DM think the barn might be searched but not the property? I would think inside the barn it was hidden especially if they did arial search?

From the timeline above:

May 9th-Thursday-AJ takes picture of truck and VIN number- calls CrimeStoppers-gets confirmation-holds family meeting that night and SS storms out of meeting.
May 9th- Thursday- in CN statement to LE, she assisted DM in moving trailer & truck to DM's mothers house and assisted moving incinerator into a stand of trees after they dropped trailer/truck off.

It is rather curious that AJ never mentioned the incinerator at the hangar since it was clearly still there on the day he took the pics of the truck & called crimestoppers. Unless of course it wasn't uncommon for the incinerator to be there? Routinely used to burn... whatever?

Re. selling stuff for Millardair/DM after DM's arrest.


<modsnip>

Management Consultant to Executive Team
Aviation Co.
2012 &#8211; 2013 (1 year)

He worked for DM and Millardair. I don't know today (memory!), if he only searched new tenants for the Waterloo hangar or sold stuff too.

Ontario Mom said:

From the timeline above:

May 9th-Thursday-AJ takes picture of truck and VIN number- calls CrimeStoppers-gets confirmation-holds family meeting that night and SS storms out of meeting.
May 9th- Thursday- in CN statement to LE, she assisted DM in moving trailer & truck to DM's mothers house and assisted moving incinerator into a stand of trees after they dropped trailer/truck off.

It is rather curious that AJ never mentioned the incinerator at the hangar since it was clearly still there on the day he took the pics of the truck & called crimestoppers. Unless of course it wasn't uncommon for the incinerator to be there? Routinely used to burn... whatever?

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May 9th is when the incinerator is moved into the trees. I think this was a move from another spot on that property, not from the hangar.

Weekend discussion?! When am I supposed to actually get things done? :laughing:

EspressoBean said:

May 9th is when the incinerator is moved into the trees. I think this was a move from another spot on that property, not from the hangar.

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So do we know when the incinerator was actually moved FROM the hangar? As you note, it was already at the farm when he came with CN on the 9th.

Ontario Mom said:

It is rather curious that AJ never mentioned the incinerator at the hangar since it was clearly still there on the day he took the pics of the truck & called crimestoppers. Unless of course it wasn't uncommon for the incinerator to be there? Routinely used to burn... whatever?

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It was my understanding that the incinerator was already at the property in Ayr by May 8th. It had been at the hangar (on video) May 7th - the day the employees were to stay away. And then DM decided to move it to a "less conspicuous" location with CN on May 9th, still on the Ayr property.

Ontario Mom said:

From the timeline above:

May 9th-Thursday-AJ takes picture of truck and VIN number- calls CrimeStoppers-gets confirmation-holds family meeting that night and SS storms out of meeting.
May 9th- Thursday- in CN statement to LE, she assisted DM in moving trailer & truck to DM's mothers house and assisted moving incinerator into a stand of trees after they dropped trailer/truck off.

It is rather curious that AJ never mentioned the incinerator at the hangar since it was clearly still there on the day he took the pics of the truck & called crimestoppers. Unless of course it wasn't uncommon for the incinerator to be there? Routinely used to burn... whatever?

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The Crowns opening statement says that the incinerator was moved to the tree's on the 9th- it doesn't say where it was moved from. I've updated the time line to show that it was brought to the hangar shortly after midnight on the 7th and was burning at the hangar at 1:30 am on the 7th. IMO, it sounds like the DM brought it from somewhere (IMO the farm) and it wasn't normally kept it at the hangar. AJ may never have known it existed. MOO

May 6th-Monday evening: TB goes on test drive-goes missing
May 7th-Tuesday-shortly after midnight- video of TB's truck pulling Eliminator to the hangar- DM's Yukon following behind
May 7th-Tuesday- several hours during early morning hours -video of incineration phase of TB's death.
May 7th-Tuesday: DM notifies staff not to go to hangar- for anything
May 7th-Tuesday: HPS release statement- TB is officially missing
May 8th-Wednesday-AJ goes to work and notices truck that matches TB's. AJ talks with his wife about it that night.
May 9th-Thursday-TB's phone is found in Brantford
May 9th-Thursday-AJ takes picture of truck and VIN number- calls CrimeStoppers-gets confirmation-holds family meeting that night and SS storms out of meeting.
May 9th- Thursday- in CN statement to LE, she assisted DM in moving trailer & truck to DM's mothers house and assisted moving incinerator into a stand of trees after they dropped trailer/truck off.
May 10th- Friday- early morning hours, CN statement to LE that she was with DM when he dropped off a locked tool box to a friends house.
May 10th- AJ goes to work at hangar and truck is gone- along with a car trailer.
May 10th, Friday- LE announce that they have located TB's phone.
May 10th, Friday- LE announce they're searching for 2 suspects and 1 has "ambition" tattoo on wrist where watch would be worn.
May 10th- Friday-LE visit the hangar after visiting another truck seller. Surveillance team put on hangar.
May 10th- AJ fired by DM. AJ gives statement to LE
May 10th- DM arrested on Cawthra Road
May 11th- late morning, LE make announcement of DM's arrest.

Finally, the tattoo description!!!! How many pages have been spent here on speculation of its description?


I would love to see the piece of wood that Igor drew the tattoo on. I wonder why they did not introduce the drawing as evidence yet? They didn't introduce it when the officer brought it up, nor when Igor did, is there some reason it's not being entered into evidence?

What happens if Igor is wrong about his description of the tattoo? What if 3 out of the 4 things he said to describe it do not match the actual tattoo? Will it be an OJ's glove type of moment, will RP start a trendy new catchphrase about it, is that the fear?

Does the crown have to produce all the evidence in court, or can they include just the parts that support their theories and bury the evidence that may be contradictory or throw doubt?

At least we know now why RBEG couldn't say for certain which arm he saw the tattoo on, if both he and DM took turns driving, he would have had an opportunity to have a clear view of each arm.

Swedie #481

Quote Originally Posted by inbetweendoors View Post
Mark Carcasole &#8207;@MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Jennings would show up at #Millard Air and wait for his SIL, Shane to show up, unlock doors and let him in.

Mark Carcasole &#8207;@MarkCarcGlobal 3m3 minutes ago
Jennings started placement at #Millard Air in Feb 2013. "Do whatever was needed to do. Free labour," is how he describes his responsibility.

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Here's showing the Millard way...frugal. Just saying and MOO.

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Like his grandpa CM and perhaps even his father WM, I think. Operate the largest companies with the smallest effort. With a preference for "tinkering".

Ontario Mom said:

From the timeline above:

May 9th-Thursday-AJ takes picture of truck and VIN number- calls CrimeStoppers-gets confirmation-holds family meeting that night and SS storms out of meeting.
May 9th- Thursday- in CN statement to LE, she assisted DM in moving trailer & truck to DM's mothers house and assisted moving incinerator into a stand of trees after they dropped trailer/truck off.

It is rather curious that AJ never mentioned the incinerator at the hangar since it was clearly still there on the day he took the pics of the truck & called crimestoppers. Unless of course it wasn't uncommon for the incinerator to be there? Routinely used to burn... whatever?

Click to expand...

BBM - to burn ..... the interiors of the vehicles they were stealing? MOO
Except it was fairly new, bought in the summer before when LB disappeared.
However if AJ was only there 4 months or so working, it's possible it was just common for it to be there, reports did say how it wasn't weathered or outside

Obviously Millard's only interest here was the truck. I just don't get why he felt he had to kill TB to get it? Why not just steal the truck at night? The way I see this is that DM needed the truck in a hurry, probably tied in to his urgent need for the trailer. I believe he wanted the ignition intact, which explains why he would want the owner and the key in the truck, and why he didn't hotwire one from a lot. I believe that the plan was to simply pull a gun on TB, take his phone and dump him in the middle of nowhere. I believe TB, who really needed the money for that truck, resisted and was gunned down. Ask yourself why, if Millard's plan was to execute TB, did he allow himself to be seen by TB's wife and neighbour? Ask yourself if Millard was planning on gunning down the guy the previous day in downtown Toronto in the middle of the day? I believe Millard was aware that police don't put a huge amount of resources in to car thefts. Its easier and cheaper to just wait for the vehicle to turn up and hopefully solve the crime via fingerprints. So I don't think he was overly cautious about concealing his identity at that point. The crime was never meant to be more than a car jacking.

As for the tattoo, IMO I you can see it in some of DM photo's faintly where it was.
I think the box was drawn in by a sharpie, after all DM loves to doodle.

I have gone back through close to 3 years worth of posts and can't find the answer to this question so am hoping that someone can help me.

SS listed and sold several items on behalf of DM (cars, Jeeps, snowmobiles etc) just prior to DM and SM being charged in the death of LB.

Prior to these items being sold, were they reviewed as part of the investigation into the death of LB? Was the hangar part of the investigation or just the farm property? Just wondering if any potential evidence linking DM/SM to this case was sold before LE could review? I am assuming that tracks were covered well in advance of the TB arrest but sometimes people are arrogant and/or sloppy.

andreww said:

Obviously Millard's only interest here was the truck. I just don't get why he felt he had to kill TB to get it? Why not just steal the truck at night? The way I see this is that DM needed the truck in a hurry, probably tied in to his urgent need for the trailer. I believe he wanted the ignition intact, which explains why he would want the owner and the key in the truck, and why he didn't hotwire one from a lot. I believe that the plan was to simply pull a gun on TB, take his phone and dump him in the middle of nowhere. I believe TB, who really needed the money for that truck, resisted and was gunned down. Ask yourself why, if Millard's plan was to execute TB, did he allow himself to be seen by TB's wife and neighbour? Ask yourself if Millard was planning on gunning down the guy the previous day in downtown Toronto in the middle of the day? I believe Millard was aware that police don't put a huge amount of resources in to car thefts. Its easier and cheaper to just wait for the vehicle to turn up and hopefully solve the crime via fingerprints. So I don't think he was overly cautious about concealing his identity at that point. The crime was never meant to be more than a car jacking.

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I agree he needed it urgently, with the way AJ described he needed to get the trailer finished up, seems he was up to something.
He went to a whole lot of effort to get this specific truck. Burner phone, calling ads, meeting up with them to test drive.

When you say gunned down, do you think they let him out somewhere and then shot him? Then put his body back in the truck?

canadiangirl said:

BBM - to burn ..... the interiors of the vehicles they were stealing? MOO
Except it was fairly new, bought in the summer before when LB disappeared.
However if AJ was only there 4 months or so working, it's possible it was just common for it to be there, reports did say how it wasn't weathered or outside

Click to expand...

Why would they want to burn interiors? If they are stripping stolen vehicles for parts, they still need to dispose of the chassis of the car. What possible reason would they have of disposing of the interior separately? In the case of TBs truck I think they wanted to ensure that any evidence that they were in there was gone, but I doubt that would be something they would have done on other vehicles.

canadiangirl said:

I agree he needed it urgently, with the way AJ described he needed to get the trailer finished up, seems he was up to something.
He went to a whole lot of effort to get this specific truck. Burner phone, calling ads, meeting up with them to test drive.

When you say gunned down, do you think they let him out somewhere and then shot him? Then put his body back in the truck?

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Regarding being let out and shot elsewhere, I recall that a window of the truck was smashed and assumed that it was shot out but it could also have happened in a struggle. TB may have quickly realised what was up and put up a struggle? I couldn't tell that the window was smashed, based on the the photo that AJ sent to Crimestoppers?