Tell me about Raven...

Okay, we've been going 'round & 'round on this case for so long and I'm trying to recall all the details about Raven, as a person. I know what he's become, but I'm trying to see what brought him to where he is, now.
So, his parents had a difficult divorce, in his words. Where is his father now? Is he involved in Raven's life, did he have visitation? Where does he stand on this? I'm really interested in his relationship with his father, is/was it non-existent? What type of a person is his father, I can't help but believe that has a lot to do with Raven's personality now, as well.
Why did he live in so many houses? Did his mother have difficulty holding down a job? Why?
This paragraph from his very own site and his very own words actually makes me very sad for him. As a child, it seems he felt the need to be more of a "husband" to his mother than her son. While under the age of five years old I saw my parents go through a very difficult divorce. My mother was left to care for 4 children under the age of six. As young as 7 years old I remember having the desire to help ease her pains. I decided that if I could grow up fast then my mom would have less to worry about and I could help her accomplish what she needed to have an orderly house. I began by being comfortable with change. During all my childhood I was constantly challenged with change. Our routine regularly changed with our financial situation, our home, and our surroundings.As a child I often didn’t know what the next meal would bring. It seemed one month we were dining out every night and the next month we were receiving food assistance from our church. Did his mother lack financial abilities to maintain a budget? It would seem that passed down to Raven. I'm not slamming his mother, I know it's hard to live within a tight budget, especially when you have children. You want to give them everything they want, and it's difficult when you can't.

There have been many who claim to know Raven....so here's your chance.

LTUlegal said:

This paragraph from his very own site and his very own words actually makes me very sad for him. As a child, it seems he felt the need to be more of a "husband" to his mother than her son. While under the age of five years old I saw my parents go through a very difficult divorce. My mother was left to care for 4 children under the age of six. As young as 7 years old I remember having the desire to help ease her pains. I decided that if I could grow up fast then my mom would have less to worry about and I could help her accomplish what she needed to have an orderly house. I began by being comfortable with change. During all my childhood I was constantly challenged with change. Our routine regularly changed with our financial situation, our home, and our surroundings.As a child I often didn’t know what the next meal would bring. It seemed one month we were dining out every night and the next month we were receiving food assistance from our church. Did his mother lack financial abilities to maintain a budget? It would seem that passed down to Raven. I'm not slamming his mother, I know it's hard to live within a tight budget, especially when you have children. You want to give them everything they want, and it's difficult when you can't.

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I certainly can see where one might be sympathetic with the circumstances in which someone else was reared, etc., and I know you're not in anyway condoning Raven's actions as an adult Legal, but, I feel like I have to make a few observations -

Many, many children live in households where finances are tight, where moves are frequent, where there is just one parent, where public assistance is this norm, where back to school shopping is a matter of hand me downs, etc., etc. And certainly the atmosphere and manner in which a child grows up can greatly influence their lives... and it seems to me it can go one or two ways -

The child is able to grow up, appreciate those circumstances, learn something from them even, and take an honorable path to becoming a responsible adult, someway, somehow, even against what may seem like at times insurmountable odds.

Or, the child's entire life is defined by childhood. They are bitter. Resentful. They becoming self-serving, egotistical, and indulgent - they want to better themselves, which is only natural, but, in this instance, they see no barriers, no wrongs in HOW they choose to "better" themselves.... Hard work they've perhaps seen in action - from a parent, a neighbor, whomever - but for them, it's more about taking whatever path leads to self satisfaction. The easy road, if you will. Often, these are the kids that end up in trouble early on, setting a dangerous precedent for their lives as an adult. Petty crimes quite often lead to more crime later on. I want that toy, my Mom can't buy it, so I steal it. And then, I have the toy. It was easy. Later in life, that might become I want this new car. I can't afford this new car. So, I might steal the new car, or, I compromise my finances, and perhaps those of my household, in order to buy the car. And then, I have the new car.

This scenario is more enhanced, in some ways I think, by roller coaster circumstances in childhood. One day we had tons of money, we ate out, we shopped at department stores, I got an allowance. The next day, we were poor, etc. It's naturally easy to become accustomed to the good times...money is there, things can be bought, etc. So when the lean times come, the adjustment is hard. This same thought can often translate to adulthood. I USE to be able to afford a nice car, to eat in the finest restaurants, to shop in the best places.... and now my finances have changed. Some people then adjust - ok, now I have to tighten my belt, and hopefully one day I'll be back where I want to be, financially, with things, what have you... Others, well, they want them, they want them now, and regardless of consequences.....

At the end of the day, life is quite often about one thing - choices. Childhood play a part...it helps shape and mold us for adulthood...it gives us blocks with which to build - our morals, out ethics, our manners, our beliefs, our character... Then, as adults, it's up to us to take all those blocks, and to start to build our lives - we have to pick and choose - which blocks go where, and why. Sometimes our choices may not be the right ones. Sometimes we may have to change out choices. But it's still about choice. Even the poorest most disadvantaged person has choices...they might not seem like great choices all the time, but the choice is still there...

Many kids make the choice to better themselves. Taking their past and molding it for their furture and growing. Others, they lead their lives letting the past define them. Choice. Do I accept my past, embrace it, learn from it, and use it to define my future. Or, do I let my past dictate my life. And then always opt for what may seem like the easy way out...no hard work, overindulgence, ego driven, and perhaps even crime...

I'll tell you about Raven and I don't even know him! He's a complete quitter. When it gets hard ... he's gone. He only managed one semester of college and only a couple months of his mission. He hops from job to job because after the new wears off, his co-workers end up seeing him for what he really is and he can't sustain at actually working for a living. When things got tough in their marriage, Raven left Janet for another woman.

He's a quitter.

Raven's stories are always bigger than life. He loves to embellish, exaggerate and flat out lie. Must be compensating for his lack of manhood.:loser:

Tell me about Raven......ummm he's a liar, a cheat, an embezzler, a felon, some say bi-polar, some say chubby, balding murderer.

Guess, to me, that says it all...

My opinions only, but they are the only ones that count.

terminatrixator said:

Tell me about Raven......ummm he's a liar, a cheat, an embezzler, a felon, some say bi-polar, some say chubby, balding murderer.

Guess, to me, that says it all...

My opinions only, but they are the only ones that count.

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...hmmmmm...i wanted to add to this......

..but no........you pretty much summed it up for me...........

:laugh:

BirdHunter said:

Raven's stories are always bigger than life. He loves to embellish, exaggerate and flat out lie. Must be compensating for his lack of manhood.:loser:

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He certainly doesn't seem to have any ladies speaking out for him! I'm thinking the cool tricked out VX was compensating for something lacking elsewhere...

I'll speak out for Raven, at least a little bit. When Raven first came to Southern Virginia he was a great guy. Nice, funny, charming, everything everyone says he is when he wants to get something.
Well thats all the defense I have for Raven.
I personally never saw a "dark side" of Raven, or even a scheming one. However I know that time can change people, especially when you are spinning out of control. I think Raven's life was out of control, at least the control he was used to.
People do crazy things when their backs are against the wall. I think Raven SNAPPED.:behindbar

Great Post Goodolebv,

Question:

If you think he "snapped" did he snap before the affairs or after; before his need for toys outweighed taking care of his bills and family; before the embezzlement or after; before he killed Janet, the only stable person his life?

Please understand I do respect your opinion, and please don't take this post as b*tchy (though most of my posts are designated to be that way lol)

I am seriously interested in your opinion.

goodolebv said:

I'll speak out for Raven, at least a little bit. When Raven first came to Southern Virginia he was a great guy. Nice, funny, charming, everything everyone says he is when he wants to get something.
Well thats all the defense I have for Raven.
I personally never saw a "dark side" of Raven, or even a scheming one. However I know that time can change people, especially when you are spinning out of control. I think Raven's life was out of control, at least the control he was used to.
People do crazy things when their backs are against the wall. I think Raven SNAPPED.:behindbar

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I mean no disrespect, I just don't think he "snapped". I think his life has been one case of poor judgement after another. Everything leading up to this has seemed to be an act of impulse, why would this be any different? I believe HE may have thought his back was up against the wall, but most people wouldn't have put themselves in his position.

LTUlegal said:

I mean no disrespect, I just don't think he "snapped". I think his life has been one case of poor judgement after another. Everything leading up to this has seemed to be an act of impulse, why would this be any different? I believe HE may have thought his back was up against the wall, but most people wouldn't have put themselves in his position.

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My personal opinion is this is what is taking LE so long to make the arrest. This crime was anything but an act of impulse. It was deliberate and planned. Ensuring first degree and finding the evidence of premeditation is what's taking so long.

It took me along time to decide that Raven did it. Being friends with both Raven and Janet made that tough to swallow.
But I do think his life was getting harder and harder to "manage". I mean come on if you were living a life of lies I would think eventually it would catch up with you. SP, MH, etc. They all got to the point where they snapped. IMO it is when they killed their wives. The actual act of killing your wife. That is point of no return. Even if Raven planned this out, that is not the point at which he snapped to me. It would be when he carried it out. Because up until the crime is commited you can still back out of it and change. Not that Raven would be willing to change. So when Raven killed Janet, that is when he snapped. To me everything else is forgivable. Lying, cheating, stealing..all hard to deal with, but still forgivable.
LTU, I agree with you. His life was full of poor decisions. And that most people wouldn't back themselves into a corner the way he did, but Raven did. I also think that most people if backed into a corner would get out a different way. But not Raven. So he did the only possible thing in his mind to get out. I think he is crazy, he has to be. Any sane person still could make those same mistakes (lying, cheating, stealing) but the difference between them and Raven is that sane people realize their mistakes and try to fix them. Or at least do not continue making the same ones. I believe most of us learn from our mistakes.
If he did this in his "right mind", calculating, etc. then he is DEFINITELY CRAZY. If this was some rage attack, then he is still crazy for letting his emotions get that far out of control.

You are right in that there is a difference between psychotic and crazy. No normal sane person would commit murder. There has to be a screw loose somewhere. But plenty of people commit murder without being "insane". These people know right from wrong, know what they are doing is wrong and still do it anyway. What made raven 'snap' and go to the next level of being a liar, cheater, stealer to a murderer?...that, I believe, is what LE is trying to find.

All right first timer... Be gentle. I know Raven and Janet from work. When they were in VA. I worked with him 1 or 2 weeks out of the month for around 2 years. The first time I met Janet I teased Raven that she was to good for him. He was and is a punk. I remember when he bought that stupid VX thing you guys talk about. The charm and like ability he has is very transparent. It wears off real fast. By the way I am in Salt Lake and I have not seen him here. I have watched this website for a couple of months to find out what is going on. Before I even found this website, a friend said "did you hear about Raven's wife". They kept the story breif and didn't mention who they might think had done it. After they told me she was murdered I stopped the story and said "He killed her didn't he" I have not seen or heard from Raven or Janet for nearly 2 years, so I don't know what has gone on in there life or house, except for what is on this site. Erase this website from my mind and my first reaction of the news was that Raven did it.


I think I am sopposed to say "this is my opinion"

I hope this is all ok to say. I don't know all the rules.

Ya did just fine Sabo10! Welcome to WS!!

Sabo10 said:

All right first timer... Be gentle. I know Raven and Janet from work. When they were in VA. I worked with him 1 or 2 weeks out of the month for around 2 years. The first time I met Janet I teased Raven that she was to good for him. He was and is a punk. I remember when he bought that stupid VX thing you guys talk about. The charm and like ability he has is very transparent. It wears off real fast. By the way I am in Salt Lake and I have not seen him here. I have watched this website for a couple of months to find out what is going on. Before I even found this website, a friend said "did you hear about Raven's wife". They kept the story breif and didn't mention who they might think had done it. After they told me she was murdered I stopped the story and said "He killed her didn't he" I have not seen or heard from Raven or Janet for nearly 2 years, so I don't know what has gone on in there life or house, except for what is on this site. Erase this website from my mind and my first reaction of the news was that Raven did it.


I think I am sopposed to say "this is my opinion"

I hope this is all ok to say. I don't know all the rules.

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Welcome Sabo10. You did fine. We welcome all opinions here, and appreciate you posting. What about Raven led you to believe that he was capable of murder?

Sabo10, a great big welcome to you.

Thank you so much for your observations. We speculate and speculate and speculate but without the observations of those that knew Janet and Raven, it often stops short of seeming quite real. Thank you to all of you that have helped us to see the situation more clearly and for helping us to get to know Janet in a small way.

Sabo10, I hope you'll stick around with us while we wait for justice.

Sabo ... welcome. Nice first post. We look forward to many more from you!

:blowkiss:

Sabo10 said:

All right first timer... Be gentle. I know Raven and Janet from work. When they were in VA. I worked with him 1 or 2 weeks out of the month for around 2 years. The first time I met Janet I teased Raven that she was to good for him. He was and is a punk. I remember when he bought that stupid VX thing you guys talk about. The charm and like ability he has is very transparent. It wears off real fast. By the way I am in Salt Lake and I have not seen him here. I have watched this website for a couple of months to find out what is going on. Before I even found this website, a friend said "did you hear about Raven's wife". They kept the story breif and didn't mention who they might think had done it. After they told me she was murdered I stopped the story and said "He killed her didn't he" I have not seen or heard from Raven or Janet for nearly 2 years, so I don't know what has gone on in there life or house, except for what is on this site. Erase this website from my mind and my first reaction of the news was that Raven did it.


I think I am sopposed to say "this is my opinion"

I hope this is all ok to say. I don't know all the rules.

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Welcome Sabo! It's always great to hear from folks who knew Raven and/or Janet! So feel free to share any observations, thoughts, what have you... I'm sure you'll have a captive audience here!

One question - when you say your first thought was "he killed her didn't he," can you elaborate a little on why you thought that?

Thanks in advance, and again, welcome... I look forward to your posts!

Welcome to WS Sabo, and we appreciate you coming forward to say a little of what you know about Raven and Janet. I think your observation that Janet was too good for Raven was right on.