Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

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Sillybilly

Sillybilly

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Court will be in session on Friday, February 19, but will involve legal matters outside the presence of the jury.

Special note to any Websleuths members who may attend court tomorrow:

Whatever you may hear in the courtroom that is being discussed outside the presence of the jury is NOT to be brought to the thread.

Please continue general discussion about the ongoing trial here until we open a new Trial thread on Monday morning, February 22, 2016.

As always, please be respectful and remember:

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:tyou:
 
:rose: Remembering Tim Bosma and waiting for Justice :rose:

bosma-wife.jpg

National Post



By Molly Hayes

B821254669Z.1_20130514195432_000_GQ9VSLAR.2_Content.jpg


TIM AND HIS DAUGHTER
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family​
 
deugirtni said:
I was following a historical Hamilton case of a double murder - 'William Staples/Rhonda Borelli', where it was years (decades?) later when the son/brother was finally arrested for the murders.. the case finally went to trial, and by that time, there was not a lot of public interest. Good old Susan Clairmont covered the case, but she seemed to ever be the only reporter present during the trial. She may not have reported on every single detail, but I have to admit that even though I believed the accused to be guilty all of the years between the murder and the trial, I was shocked that the jury actually came back with a guilty verdict, based on what little was actually reported on as evidence....
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RSBM

I was following that case along too, deugirtni. :)

I've followed a number of cases over the years - being interested in true crime like many others here. I don't think I've ever followed a case with as much overwhelming evidence as what I have seen already in the first three weeks of this trial. And it sounds like there is still a great deal of solid evidence to come - ie, video.

I don't think there's any way these guys are not going to be found guilty of 1st degree murder.
 
Alderbrook said:
Link to Lisa Hefners segment on the news at 6:00. Right at the end she makes ref to the dentist iding the tooth but not sure if it's to Tim or just stating its a tooth?

http://www.chch.com/bosma-day/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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hearing how Tracy Rogers broke down a bit after stating she wanted to give the family peace of mind to get back all the remains made me cry..so heartbreaking.
 
redheart said:
RSBM

I was following that case along too, deugirtni. :)

I've followed a number of cases over the years - being interested in true crime like many others here. I don't think I've ever followed a case with as much overwhelming evidence as what I have seen already in the first three weeks of this trial. And it sounds like there is still a great deal of solid evidence to come - ie, video.

I don't think there's any way these guys are not going to be found guilty of 1st degree murder.
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pretty unbelievable his Lawyer did not try and convince him to just plead guilty..don't know how after seeing the disclosure he ever thought he would be able to raise any reasonable doubt..but I do have a question..lets just say the gun was hidden by Smich and let's just hypothetically say there was a struggle and Tim had grabbed the gun and it went off...could the defence retrieve the gun? If Smich believed there would be prints from Tim on the gun..could defence use the gun as evidence and have it tested or would it have to be given to crown first? I am pretty sure this didn't happen but was just curious of the way crown/defence operate..I am sure defence will have their own evidence is that correct? or are they there just to question and argue existing evidence?
 
deugirtni said:
Sorry for being so gross... but I'm getting a bit freaked out when I look at the diagram of discovered bone fragments outlined by Dr Rogers. I had understood her to indicate that she had found fragments from every section of an adult human male body, but when I look at the diagram, I'm not seeing any indication of bones from the torso... ribs, pelvis, spine, neck? So my mind then goes to wondering about whether sections of the body could have been severed prior to incineration. (Would that speed the process?)

I hate that a bunch of remains are still missing. I'm assuming they are still missing, or LE would have undoubtedly called Dr Rogers in again to confirm their find. I wonder where they were taken to? Ugh!
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it's possible they are going in order of evidence found...perhaps as the days went on and they dug up areas of the farm, more bones were found..it almost seems to me that all the larger bones may have been cleaned out and disposed of elsewhere..the bones left behind...they either did not see? or could not access? hidden in the corner of the incinerator behind the tubing? Maybe we will here from her again..it just seems very strange that media reported a second set of remains found and then people assumed another person but I think it was a second set of remains and they were Tim's
 
When I said "along for the ride" re MS, I just meant that so far, all the evidence/testimony seems to point right at DM, and MS was just stupid enough to be friends with him and willing to go along with whatever wicked/illegal plans DM had.
 
deugirtni said:
Hmm. I was wondering .... if you want to steal a truck so badly that you're willing to risk murdering someone and spending 25 years in prison, why wouldn't you go all out and steal a 2012 instead of a 2007. Think you may have just hit on the answer!
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That was one of my questions. What years were the other trucks he called about. This could be the reason they targeted Tim. He had an older truck that wouldn't be damaged by Mexican fuel. Where as the others would be.


Never mind my question were answered

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
deugirtni said:
I wonder if LE researched missing persons cases from Ontario from say 3 years before TB's disappearance, to see if it could be worth investigating the possibility that even LB may not necessarily have been the first to disappear?
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I know I saw a tweet early in the trial that I am desperately trying to find so I can link..(I think it was first fingerprint testimony---Feske) that said they sent that fingerprint in to compare to unsolved cases on file. But I myself would assume they would do that anyway. Would just make sense...


Too bad there is not an easy way to search through all these tweets.
 
deugirtni said:
It just struck me weird that he would go to this length for a 6 year old vehicle. So maybe finding a 2012 might be difficult (not necessarily, perhaps on kijiji though) to find, but yes, why not a 2010? If he had all of this wealth that Paradkar purported him to have, what's a few extra (thousand) bucks to have a newer vehicle that will last a few years longer? I wonder what year the other Rams were that DM tried to test drive?
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A lot of times car guys will prefer an older model of a vehicle simply because it had slightly better performance numbers. Sometimes increasing emissions restrictions sap horsepower, so older models are preferred. Not sure if that is the case here though.
 
hopingforjustice said:
I know I saw a tweet early in the trial that I am desperately trying to find so I can link..(I think it was first fingerprint testimony---Feske) that said they sent that fingerprint in to compare to unsolved cases on file. But I myself would assume they would do that anyway. Would just make sense...


Too bad there is not an easy way to search through all these tweets.
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It is very hard to believe that DMs first crime was the murder of LB. Not saying that he killed anyone prior to that but I'll bet the farm that this guy wasn't as clean as his criminal record indicated.

ETA: Given Millard's record, I'd say the is a pretty good chance that the old guy that fell off the wing of the plane he was servicing, with only DM present, might not have been an accident either.
 
so as far as I understand the forensic evidence presented by the crown to date, there has been identification that there was blood in the truck, and male bones in the incinerator... It has not been linked through DNA or dental records to be TB - right?

I am not on the DM / MS innocent wagon, I am just trying to understand the level of facts presented from the crown to date. I assume it will all be tied together through DNA...
 
LoyalSleuth said:
so as far as I understand the forensic evidence presented by the crown to date, there has been identification that there was blood in the truck, and male bones in the incinerator... It has not been linked through DNA or dental records to be TB - right?

I am not on the DM / MS innocent wagon, I am just trying to understand the level of facts presented from the crown to date. I assume it will all be tied together through DNA...
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AFAIK, the crown has identified blood and human bones but has not forensically connected it to TB as of yet, except for Rogers testimony that identified the approx age and gender of the bones. I'm sure the DNA identification isn't far behind. BTW, as stated by a previous poster, I'm amazed at the complexity of the identification process. MOO
 
LoyalSleuth said:
so as far as I understand the forensic evidence presented by the crown to date, there has been identification that there was blood in the truck, and male bones in the incinerator... It has not been linked through DNA or dental records to be TB - right?

I am not on the DM / MS innocent wagon, I am just trying to understand the level of facts presented from the crown to date. I assume it will all be tied together through DNA...
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I don't think we've had DNA or dental experts yet. They've referred, in their opening statement, to the blood in the truck and the blood on the incinerator hatch as being TB's. They didn't use weasel phrases like 'consistent with being that of TB's'. So I assume they intend to provide their proof.

Edit: Not sure we will get a 100% positive ID on the cremains. I don't think they made that claim.
 
andreww said:
A lot of times car guys will prefer an older model of a vehicle simply because it had slightly better performance numbers. Sometimes increasing emissions restrictions sap horsepower, so older models are preferred. Not sure if that is the case here though.
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This has been discussed on WS in the past. For some the 2007 is much preferred over later Dodges as the 5.9 litre Cummins is perceived to be superior to the 6.7 litre that has been used since. 2007 was the last year the 5.9 was used so it would have the newest 5.9 available.

Reputational advantages of the 5.9 over the later 6.7:
- less emissions and computer control so more mechanically and electrically reliable and easier and less costly to fix
- runs better on low quality fuel
- gets significantly better mileage while still being able to haul heavy loads.

This reputation also makes them more desirable and valuable in other countries. If one were contemplating selling, or trading for cocaine, in Latin America ("cars for cocaine" is still big down there), the 2007 is the truck to have.
 
deugirtni said:
The 75% accuracy, I believe, was in relation to the bone being that of a male human, as opposed to being TB. Not sure if they will have been able to get any DNA from the bones they found. But.. if not TB, then whom? Not much in the way of reasonable doubt there, even if they can't get DNA.... as long as they know they are human bones!

I am confused about all of the little markers that Dr. Rogers indicated were marked at the burn site(s), when she had her students searching those areas. What did the markers find? To me, it isn't clear whether all of the little bone fragments were retrieved from the incinerator, or whether some were found in the field. I doubt if they will be calling Dr. Rogers back to the stand again, so I am thinking that all of her evidence testimony has already been given. Was it even mentioned whether the bones/fragments were sent off to CFS for DNA analysis? Also, no mention of the blood reportedly found on the incinerator; with Dr. Roger's examination, wouldn't that have been found at that time, and if so, why wasn't it mentioned today?
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BBM - totally agree. Dr. Rogers said she was not qualified to test for DNA. She was not saying the bones were TB's. I expect we will have another expert come and take us through the DNA process. I don't think Dr. Rogers would testify to anything that isn't in her area of expertise....ie: the blood. I expect we have not yet heard the end of testimony with respect to the Eliminator. MOO
 
deugirtni said:
Add:

* DM made arrangements for a body shop to paint TB's truck, knowing full well that the theft of same vehicle/color/year had just been stolen, and owner missing; aren't body shops obligated to contact LE if they suspect something like that? Of course there would be no 'proof', if the VIN was off of it, or changed, but isn't that tempting fate? I think DM only cancelled the appointment because he realized he had run out of time. MOO
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This brings up a point I had not noticed before, thanks. When DM had plans to have the truck painted, (before he cancelled them), and he was preparing the truck by removing the taillights and wording and such, why didn't he remove the vin numbers?
 
Juballee said:
This brings up a point I had not noticed before, thanks. When DM had plans to have the truck painted, (before he cancelled them), and he was preparing the truck by removing the taillights and wording and such, why didn't he remove the vin numbers?
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Perhaps if DM brought a truck with the VIN removed into the body shop, they would not accept it since that would be a clear indication it was stolen. JMO. He could have removed the VIN later, after cancelling the appointment, but by that time he was probably so frantic and feeling the heat of LE coming down on him that it just didn't happen. MOO.
 
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