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  1. #1
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    OR - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest ARRESTS #4

    Harney County ranchers at the meeting complained that the occupiers were asking too much – for example, if ranchers tear up their grazing leases, then the value of their former grazing rights is subtracted from their net worth and they cannot borrow against it. And none welcomed an armed standoff with federal authorities.

    Finicum responded that his group was there to defend the ranchers from federal authorities by force of arms. Finicum insisted that if only half a dozen ranchers in the room stood together, with armed protection by the Bundy militants, they could defeat the United States government and start a national movement that would spread like wildfire. Revealing his frustration at the reluctance of the assembled ranchers to join the revolution, Finicum practically begged, saying, “If not now, when? If not here, where? If not us, who?”

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/what...nts-in-oregon/


    http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta..._last_4_r.html

    [Sandy] Anderson's court-appointed lawyer, Tyl Bakker, said his client didn't know the Bundys, who led the refuge occupation. She also hadn't engaged in political protest in the past and had visited the refuge with her husband on four separate occasions before the final visit – no longer than two nights each time – to bring donations and other supplies to Ammon Bundy, his brother, Ryan, and other protesters, Bakker said.

    He called Anderson a "relatively minor player'' who got "mixed up in these circumstances.''

  2. #2
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    Thank you to everyone posting links. There is some very interesting reading in them. The more I read the more I am impressed with how law enforcement and the local people stood up to this group.
    I cannot imagine what the locals had to go through. It must of been so terrifying for them.
    Mostly it makes me wonder about tomorrow. I wonder if what happened at the refuge will happen again, or did it weaken the movement.
    One thing that I think is very important to show this movement that there are consequences for thier actions is that any of them that decide not to pay thier grazing fees will have thier cattle taken from that land for payment of money owed. I don't know how it can be down swiftly and safely, but I do believe it sends a very strong message to others that may be thinking about not paying thier grazing fees, and joining the movement.

  3. #3
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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...mepage%2Fstory

    The prosecution played 20 minutes of clips from Santilli’s show for the court, dating as far back as last June, in which Santilli discusses burying illegal guns, dying a free man and shooting federal agents if they came through his door uninvited. And, in a clip District Court Judge Michael Mosman called “distasteful,” Santilli expressed a desire to “try, convict and shoot Hillary Clinton in the vagina.”

    Santilli’s attorney, Thomas Coan, has argued that his client was not to be taken seriously, saying that these words were the bloviations of a “shock jock,” “an entertainer” and a “new media journalist.” Mosman saw Santilli’s words differently: “When he says he will die a free man, I don’t take that as a man who is joking about it,” he said.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbvnEXbWEAANoXD.png"]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbvnEXbWEAANoXD.png
    Last edited by Donjeta; 02-21-2016 at 11:35 AM.

  4. #4
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    There is a part of me that feels for the four hold outs. I believe they were used by the occupiers, the movement and those that wanted to be part of thier surrender.
    Its telling to me that while the leaders of the occupation all want to be tried together yet they do not include the final four holdouts. Thier charges are all the same, from the same occupation yet they are washing thier hands of the last four.
    That being said IMO they need to be held accountable for thier actions. IIRC for the first day (or loover) the only one that was going to be arrested was Sean. He was nit going to be arrested for being at the occupation he was going to be arrested for an outstanding warrent. They may of not known when all the others did that they were ordered to leave the refuge, but law enforcement was more than fair in giving them time to leave without consequences for being at the occupation.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...mepage%2Fstory



    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbvnEXbWEAANoXD.png"]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbvnEXbWEAANoXD.png
    What a pity, another shock jock hoisted by his own petard.. rather fitting isn't it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
    There is a part of me that feels for the four hold outs. I believe they were used by the occupiers, the movement and those that wanted to be part of thier surrender.
    Its telling to me that while the leaders of the occupation all want to be tried together yet they do not include the final four holdouts.
    Thier charges are all the same, from the same occupation yet they are washing thier hands of the last four.
    That being said IMO they need to be held accountable for thier actions. IIRC for the first day (or loover) the only one that was going to be arrested was Sean. He was nit going to be arrested for being at the occupation he was going to be arrested for an outstanding warrent. They may of not known when all the others did that they were ordered to leave the refuge, but law enforcement was more than fair in giving them time to leave without consequences for being at the occupation.
    BBM David Fry, Banta and the Andersons are included here with the Bundys et al. in this document that asks for them all to be tried together.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/299864618/...-by-Ryan-Payne

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohreally View Post
    Thank you to everyone posting links. There is some very interesting reading in them. The more I read the more I am impressed with how law enforcement and the local people stood up to this group.
    I cannot imagine what the locals had to go through. It must of been so terrifying for them.
    Mostly it makes me wonder about tomorrow. I wonder if what happened at the refuge will happen again, or did it weaken the movement.
    One thing that I think is very important to show this movement that there are consequences for thier actions is that any of them that decide not to pay thier grazing fees will have thier cattle taken from that land for payment of money owed. I don't know how it can be down swiftly and safely, but I do believe it sends a very strong message to others that may be thinking about not paying thier grazing fees, and joining the movement.
    I agree 100%, but unfortunately it remains to be seen if that will happen. Since as of this time, no cattle have been taken.

    Anyway, what the Bundys have been doing, goes well beyond not paying their grazing fees. They are plotting to overthrow the US government and to steal government lands. That’s what there has got to be consequences for. If there is any justice, the three Bundys have got to spend the rest of their lives in prison. Those guys are just to dangerous to ever allow out. The other players should spend at least some time in prison for their actions, and permanently lose their rights to ever own guns.

  8. #8
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    Pete Santilli’s first YouTube video. Something sure changed with him.


  9. #9
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    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 1h1 hour ago
    The DOJ has indicated that additional charges will be filed against Oregon militants with more people added to the lengthy defendant list.

    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 59m59 minutes ago
    I wonder how thorough the defendant list will be. There are four main groups to consider: plotters, occupiers, PPN & supporters/suppliers.

    JJ MacNab
    ‏@jjmacnab
    Of the four plotters (the Operation Mutual Defense leadership) two have been charged so far, Ryan Payne and Jon Ritzheimer.

    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 47m47 minutes ago
    Of the 9 initial occupiers (the ones who went armed to the refuge during the Jan 2 Burns protest rally) 1 dead, 6 charged, 2 not yet charged

    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 27m27 minutes ago
    Of the 3+ dozen who joined the occupiers after than initial takeover, some full-time, some for a few days, 19 have been charged.

    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 21m21 minutes ago
    The next group (those on the outside - PPN, Oath Keepers, sovcits) is more difficult and any charges will likely be on an individual basis.

    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 16m16 minutes ago
    Charges could range from felon in possession of a firearm to making terroristic threats.

    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 12m12 minutes ago
    Realistically, the DOJ won't care about those who supplied food, firewood & dairy creamer. They will care about guns, ammo & explosives.

    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 6m6 minutes ago
    Sometimes, however, that support included promises. Oath Keepers promised armed support if Ammon and LaVoy moved to a neighboring county

    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 4m4 minutes ago
    And we don't yet know if Sheriff Palmer, Fiore, Shelton, or the other politicians made any offers or promises.

    JJ MacNab ‏@jjmacnab 8m8 minutes ago
    The big question for me in all of this? Who were the deep pockets that Ammon said were backing his conspiracy?

  10. #10
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    You and I are the govt. Do they not comprehend that?
    Last edited by human; 02-21-2016 at 04:04 PM.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    BBM David Fry, Banta and the Andersons are included here with the Bundys et al. in this document that asks for them all to be tried together.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/299864618/...-by-Ryan-Payne
    Thank you for the correction. I have been reading a lot of different places and didn't remember seeing thier names on the list.

  12. #12
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    Are they requesting they be tried together and the Court has to decide? I don't know how they can be tried all together when there are different charges for some of them. Unless they are just tried for the one charge of obstructing the Fed. Govmt. Employees from doing their jobs and then separately if they have other charges also. IDK

  13. #13
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    “The usual suspects are backing Ivory. He sits on the federalism committee of the American Legislative Exchange Council. His nonprofit, the American Lands Council (ALC), is largely funded by local and county governments eager to gain control of land in their communities. It has also taken funding from utility companies and Americans for Prosperity, the dark-money group founded by the Koch brothers.

    This happens to be from Mother Jones, there are many other sources as well.

    Also, Ken Ivory is Mormon, fwiw.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ral-land-bundy

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
    I agree 100%, but unfortunately it remains to be seen if that will happen. Since as of this time, no cattle have been taken.

    Anyway, what the Bundys have been doing, goes well beyond not paying their grazing fees. They are plotting to overthrow the US government and to steal government lands. That’s what there has got to be consequences for. If there is any justice, the three Bundys have got to spend the rest of their lives in prison. Those guys are just to dangerous to ever allow out. The other players should spend at least some time in prison for their actions, and permanently lose their rights to ever own guns.
    Absolutely. All of those that have participated and threatened the federal government and overtaking the refuge should be held in prison for as long as the law allows. Life in prison works for me.
    I keep going back to the cows because to me that is how this all started (for the Bundy's) ten plus years ago when they stopped paying the grazing fees. To me each year they didn't pay they felt more powerful. They had ten years of knowing and planning for when the feds did come for the cows. Ten years of gathering support.
    IMO for Bundy and sons his ranch and cattle are more than just money. It's the heritage that has been passed down to them and thier legacy they plan on passing down. It means more than thier life, or prison. If they live thier life in prison they will suffer, but they will also be ok because thier legacy will live on. Take what property is needed to pay off the million dollar grazing fee debt, and thier share for what there did at the refuge and thier will not be a ranching legacy to pass on. This is what will hurt them the most.
    They need to serve thier prison sentences for the federal crimes, and they need to pay everything owed to the government even if means giving up thier heritage and legacy. IMO

  15. #15
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    IT might cost taxpayers less money to try them all at once...

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