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  1. #1
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    PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

    This is the thread on Ray Gricar, the former district attorney of Centre County, PA. Please continue the discussion here.

    Previous threads:
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    Thread #14

    Old Unclassified Thread [June to August, 2006]

    Note that, perhaps uniquely on the Internet, these threads begin from the first week after Ray Gricar disappeared.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by J. J. in Phila; 02-29-2016 at 01:46 PM.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  2. #2
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    Known Gricar Time Line 4/14-4/17 2005 (Thursday 4/14/05)

    Thursday, 4/14/05

    8:00 AM: Ray F. Gricar (RFG) attends a Prison Board Meeting in the Willow Bank Building. Minutes show a routine meeting, that dealt with an employee grievance (union thing). Meeting ended at 8:45 AM, though there may have a closed session to deal with the grievance.

    Participants noted that RFG seemed to mumble answers to questions and was looking out the window. Uncharacteristic, but consistent with other reports since at least 3/8/05.

    c. 10:30-11:00 AM RFG spotted near a boat launch at Lake Raystown, by a "doctor" who knew him.

    Unknown time RFG exchanged some e-mail with then defense attorney Stacy Parks Miller (SPM), regarding a case. He was joking around with her.

    unknown time Daughter Lara Gricar (LG) called RFG briefly. She would call him several times a week to check in with him. She has indicated she just called to tell him she loved him.

    2:00-4:00 PM Then ADA J. Karen Arnold (JKA) heard what she described as "forcefully closing" the door to RFG's office. She noted that that when he was stressed, he had a habit of closing his door in such a manner, if "busy or preoccupied."

    c. 5:30-6:00 PM RFG and live in girlfriend (and coworker) Patty Fornicola (PEF) seen walking in Tallyrand Park, by former County Commissioner Vicky Wedler (who often opposed Gricar when she served). She described Gricar as looking "depressed." She commented to both of them that they looked like "a perfect couple." RFG and PEF continued walking and after another turn around the park left.

    6:21 PM RFG on security video entering the rear entrance of the Courthouse. He was driving the red Mini Cooper, and was not carrying the laptop. He was wearing the fleece.

    9:03 PM RFG seen exiting the Courthouse and driving off in his car. He was not carrying the laptop. One source makes it 8:03 PM.

    NB: The most direct route to Lake Raystown is about 55 miles. RFG could have left Bellefonte at 9:00 AM and arrived the by 10:30 AM. He was also known to exceed the speed limit and as being an "adventurous driver."


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  3. #3
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    I'm so glad to see this discussion!! I've been following Ray Gricar for a long time! I read every thread when I joined WS!

  4. #4
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    Kmow Gricar Time Line - 4/14-4/17 2005 (Friday 4/15/05)

    Friday, 4/15/05

    6:00-8:15 AM: RFG gets up, but tells PEF he is going to "play hooky." PEF gets ready for work, leaves RFG a note stating to call her if he cannot let the dog, Honey, out. RFG asleep when she goes to work.

    9:00-10:00: Contractor, calls house and speaks to RFG about some repairs to the house.

    11:00-11:30: Lawyer sees RFG driving on Route 144 driving toward Centre Hall.

    Time uncertain, reported at 11:12 to around 11:30 AM: RFG calls Courthouse (through the switchboard) and is connected to his office. PEF, covering the phone for another clerical worker, answers. RFG sounds a bit startled, according to PEF. RFG says he is one Route 192, heading toward Lewisburg, and cannot let Honey our. Call originated along Route 192 about a mile outside of Centre Hall.

    11:30-11:35: County worker sees RFG turning from Route 144 on to Route 192. He was driving very fast.

    Noon to 1:00 PM, time given as "lunch time," probably 12:15-12:45 PM Employee at the Packwood House Museum (Ms. Snyder), and at least two other people saw RFG park the Mini across the street (Water Street). He got out and sat on a park bench. He appeared to carrying something.

    c. 3:00 PM Carolyn Fenton (then clerking for Judge David Grine) reported seeing RFG in a "metallic colored car" behind the Centre County Courthouse in Bellefonte. Judge Grine also remembers seeing RFG there, but cannot remember if it was on 4/14 or 4/15.

    As previously noted, the is covered by security cameras. Gricar did not show up on the tape (though Fenton did). It is possible that RFG was not at the spot where Fenton remembers him, but was along the street, out of camera range.

    4:00-5:00 PM Man heading south on Route 15 sees RFG pull in beside him at a traffic light. (This is "McKnight's Witness.")

    5:30-6:30 PM At least two people see RFG moving the Mini in the parking lot across from the Street of Shops (SoS) in Lewisburg.

    6:00-8:00 PM Store owner in the SoS, Brad Alvey, reported seeing RFG. At least two witnesses report seeing RFG in the SoS with the "Mystery Woman." That may or may not include Alvey.

    11:00 PM-Midnight PEF calls the Bellefonte Police Department (BPD), after repeated efforts to call RFG's cell phone go unanswered. BPD also call and leave messages of his voicemail.

    After consulting with then BPD Chief Duane Dixon, BPD issued a BOLA on the Mini and RFG (this might have occurred after midnight).
    Last edited by J. J. in Phila; 02-29-2016 at 09:21 PM.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

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    Known Gricar Time Line - 4/14-4/17 2005 (Saturday 4/16/05)

    Saturday, 4/16/05

    Before Noon BPD starts calling RFG's associates. JKA called by then BPD Detective Darrel Zaccagni (DZ) between 11:00-11:30 AM. When she said that RFG was "distraught" earlier in the week, he said, "Everyone is telling me the same thing."

    Then ADA Steven Sloane (SPS), and a close friend, also contacted. He suggested that RFG could have driven to Cleveland to see the Indians, as he had once before. BPD confirmed this with RFG's second ex-wife, Emma Gricar (EG). BPD did contact Jacobs Field to see if the Mini could be spotted.

    PEF called LG to tell her about the situation. Sometime before 2:00 PM RFG's nephews Tony (TG) and Chris (CG) contacted and drive from Ohio toward Bellefonte.

    11:00-Noon Two workers at the Remember When restaurant, inside the SoS,
    remember seeing RFG there.

    11:30 AM Craig Bennett, owner of the SoS, saw him in the SoS. He characterized him as "He looked anxious. He was not a relaxed person. He was waiting for someone."

    1:30 PM Witness spotted RFG in Lewisburg. Police ruled it a false sighting.

    Afternoon, before 5:00 PM Police begin aerial searches of 192 between Centre Hall and Lewisburg. They got RFG's cell phone data from the call to PEF and got access to his office computer.

    5:00 PM BPD holds a news conference. By at least the 11:00 PM news, the story was out, within the Central Pennsylvania Media Market. (Lewisburg is not in the Central Pennsylvania Media Market.)

    A Centre Daily Times (CDT) reporter called RFG's cell phone and gets his voice mail.

    6:30 PM Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) trooper spots the Mini in the parking lot across from the SoS; the trooper was just about to end his shift and heading back to his barracks in Milton.

    In route, TG contacted and diverts to Lewisburg.

    Police converge on the parking lot. The Mini was locked, but when it opened the was a smell of cigarette smoke. RFG's cell is inside and turned off.

    Media also arrives, by the time TG arrives there is at least one news van there.

    Prior to 10:30 PM, the first witness reports to LE that he saw RFG there with the "Mystery Woman" one either that day Craig Bennett also tell so seeing RFG that morning.

    10:45 PM The first news story on the disappearance is posted on the Internet.

    (I have heard of addition witnesses seeing RFG in Lewisburg on this date, possibly more that on 4/15.)


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  6. #6
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    Great timeline! So question: he was spotted on Saturday? or the witnesses were interviewed on Saturday.

    Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by asp17061 View Post
    Great timeline! So question: he was spotted on Saturday? or the witnesses were interviewed on Saturday.

    Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2
    At least two witnesses, Bennett, who reported seeing RFG on 4/16 and one witness, who reported seeing RFG with the "Mystery Woman" on the evening of 4/15, talked to the police between 6:30 PM and 10:30 PM on 4/16.

    Bennett and the two employees as the SoS reported that they saw RFG on 4/16.

    LE began a to canvass for witnesses, systematically, starting sometime between 4/17 and 4/19. On 4/16, at 6:30 PM, the SoS would have been closed. Also remember there were no media reports in Lewisburg of the disappearance of RFG until 10:45 PM on Saturday, 4/16. That was on-line, and possible cable after 11:00 PM, but nothing in their local media until 4/17. In other words, someone who may have seen RFG in Lewisburg may not have known anyone was looking for him until 4/17.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  8. #8
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    thanks. the Saturday sightings are interesting. in my mind they point toward a walk-away.
    meanwhile if you check the news, Central PA Gothic continues in Altoona (not related to this, but...it's a mess here!)

    Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

  9. #9
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    It is only related that I know some of the ADA's mentioned and have mutual acquaintances with one of the priests.

    It is Central Pennsylvania Gothic.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  10. #10
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    It could point to voluntary departure, but it also could point to RFG meeting a woman, spending the night with her, and dying or being killed while they were together.

    I will also note that one of the Lewisburg witnesses saw RFG in the Mini with the laptop. I don't know which day, but it was before the laptop being missing was announced in the press.

    I know of no witness sighting on 4/17.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    Friday, 4/15/05

    6:00-8:15 AM: RFG gets up, but tells PEF he is going to "play hooky." PEF gets ready for work, leaves RFG a note stating to call her if he cannot let the dog, Honey, out. RFG asleep when she goes to work.

    9:00-10:00: Contractor, calls house and speaks to RFG about some repairs to the house.

    11:00-11:30: Lawyer sees RFG driving on Route 144 driving toward Centre Hall.

    Time uncertain, reported at 11:12 to around 11:30 AM: RFG calls Courthouse (through the switchboard) and is connected to his office. PEF, covering the phone for another clerical worker, answers. RFG sounds a bit startled, according to PEF. RFG says he is one Route 192, heading toward Lewisburg, and cannot let Honey our. Call originated along Route 192 about a mile outside of Centre Hall.

    11:30-11:35: County worker sees RFG turning from Route 144 on to Route 192. He was driving very fast.

    Noon to 1:00 PM, time given as "lunch time," probably 12:15-12:45 PM Employee at the Packwood House Museum (Ms. Snyder), and at least two other people saw RFG park the Mini across the street (Water Street). He got out and sat on a park bench. He appeared to carrying something.

    c. 3:00 PM Carolyn Fenton (then clerking for Judge David Grine) reported seeing RFG in a "metallic colored car" behind the Centre County Courthouse in Bellefonte. Judge Grine also remembers seeing RFG there, but cannot remember if it was on 4/14 or 4/15.

    As previously noted, the is covered by security cameras. Gricar did not show up on the tape (though Fenton did). It is possible that RFG was not at the spot where Fenton remembers him, but was along the street, out of camera range.

    4:00-5:00 PM Man heading south on Route 15 sees RFG pull in beside him at a traffic light. (This is "McKnight's Witness.")

    5:30-6:30 PM At least two people see RFG moving the Mini in the parking lot across from the Street of Shops (SoS) in Lewisburg.

    6:00-8:00 PM Store owner in the SoS, Brad Alvey, reported seeing RFG. At least two witnesses report seeing RFG in the SoS with the "Mystery Woman." That may or may not include Alvey.

    11:00 PM-Midnight PEF calls the Bellefonte Police Department (BPD), after repeated efforts to call RFG's cell phone go unanswered. BPD also call and leave messages of his voicemail.

    After consulting with then BPD Chief Duane Dixon, BPD issued a BOLA on the Mini and RFG (this might have occurred after midnight).
    So if this is all true it would be in statements from LE or another source and was the contractor local and was the lawyer local and was the county worker local I am about ready to laugh I think LE should set all that crap aside and start over and did these people who seen and talked to him RG like contractor and others new of him or is that top secret that would be like to view a secret

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fromthedeepestjungle View Post
    So if this is all true it would be in statements from LE or another source and was the contractor local and was the lawyer local and was the county worker local I am about ready to laugh I think LE should set all that crap aside and start over and did these people who seen and talked to him RG like contractor and others new of him or is that top secret that would be like to view a secret
    I think it is rather obvious that a lawyer in the county, and a county worker would know the person who has been DA for 19 years. I think the contractor was local.

    If you are asking about sourcing, it is from people familiar with the BPD investigation. The County worker was revealed in the Disappeared episode.

    Until today, the lawyer and contractor were not disclosed.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by J. J. in Phila View Post
    I think it is rather obvious that a lawyer in the county, and a county worker would know the person who has been DA for 19 years. I think the contractor was local.

    If you are asking about sourcing, it is from people familiar with the BPD investigation. The County worker was revealed in the Disappeared episode.

    Until today, the lawyer and contractor were not disclosed.
    Oh would I like to know who they are and who was giving tid bits to BPD i know i will be really laughing when i walk away from this and I will be laughing very hard

  14. #14
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    Known Gricar Time Line - 4/14-4/17 2005 (Sunday 4/17/05)

    Sunday, 4/17/05

    I know of no sightings of RFG on this day. LG had arrived late Saturday night or early Sunday morning. Sometime between 7:30 PM on 4/16 and the early morning hours of 4/17, the Mini was towed to the PSP Barracks in Milton. Forensics went over it.

    Newstory's had appeared on the Internet and on CNN, but were not yet in local media.

    c. 12:30 PM JKA arrived in Lewisburg. LE was awaiting the blood hound.

    JKA stated that the theory of LE was with a woman. It was later revealed that they thought it was Barbara Petito, an old girlfriend, smoker and who had longish dark hair. She also matched the age of the MW. Petito now lived in Harrisburg and was working for the Office of the Attorney General (OAG), as a spokesperson. She had seen RFG at a press conference within the last 3 weeks.

    Sometime during that day, or Monday, Petito was contacted. She was on Long Island that weekend.

    JKA left after being their briefly.

    1:00 PM-7:00 PM The bloodhound detected RFG's scent, but not beyond the parking lot. An air search was done of the river to Harrisburg. Mini was released to PEF, who actually owned the Mini.

    c. 7:30 PM LE came to PEF's house to get RFG's computer. PEF volunteered that RFG had a laptop, though it wasn't always used. When she checked the case, it was gone.
    Last edited by J. J. in Phila; 03-01-2016 at 10:26 PM.


    What happened to former Centre County DA Ray Gricar?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fromthedeepestjungle View Post
    Oh would I like to know who they are and who was giving tid bits to BPD i know i will be really laughing when i walk away from this and I will be laughing very hard
    I don't understand.

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