Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

Sillybilly · Feb 5, 2016

Please continue general discussion about the ongoing trial here until we open a new Trial thread on Monday morning, March 7, 2016.

Special note to any Websleuths members who may attend court:

Whatever you hear in the courtroom that is being discussed outside the presence of the jury is NOT to be brought to the threads.

As always, please be respectful and remember:

The Rules

Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Your Ignore List and You

:tyou:

Sillybilly · Feb 5, 2016

:rose: Remembering Tim Bosma and waiting for Justice :rose:

National Post

By Molly Hayes

B821254669Z.1_20130514195432_000_GQ9VSLAR.2_Content.jpg

TIM AND HIS DAUGHTER
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family

Sillybilly · Feb 11, 2016

Tim Bosma and his baby daughter
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family

Tim and Sharlene Bosma's wedding pic displayed at the memorial for Tim
from: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6258681-clairmont-sharlene-bosma-brings-loving-laughter-to-court/

billandrew · Mar 4, 2016

Gumshew said:
No, not murdered because of drugs. Just the crazy and seemingly coke fuelled frantic back and forth activity after the murder. Take the right amount of cocaine and it will make you feel invincible, your thinking will become clearer and faster(but if you are dumb to begin with, it won't help in that department), and you will have seemingly boundless energy and not feel the need for sleep. Think of the movie Wolf of Wall Street. It's really Wall Street's drug of choice for a good reason.

Agreed. In my opinion, the drug aspect is more of an insight to their lifestyles than the reason for killing anyone. It shows that they were risk-seekers, thrill-seekers, and they were willing to pursue illegal activities to get their fix. From this April 2014 article (BBM):

A former acquaintance of Millard's, who says she had attended almost two dozen parties at his home in the Toronto suburb of Etobicoke, told CBC News that Millard and Noudga were dating.

"But [Millard] and Laura [Babcock] were just fooling around," she said. "He kept Laura around and gave her drugs."

The source asked CBC not to use her name because she said she was "terrified" of Millard. She described many of his parties as fuelled by cocaine and the drug MDMA and recalled several times when large brawls broke out.

Besides drugs, there appears to be sexual risk-taking as well. Was DM's relationship with Babcock done behind CN's back, or was CN in on it? Who else was DM fooling around with?

Now, looking specifically at DM, factor in the purchase of a gun, the off-road racing, the skydiving, the stealing of vehicles, the property flipping, etc. All of these things reinforce the view of DM as someone with a high appetite for risk and adventure. It is possible that once he got a taste for violence, or more specifically, murder, nothing else could quite satisfy the hunger anymore. JMO.

Abitcountry · Mar 4, 2016

Kamille said:
No idea. But it's not my contention that the incinerator was stored in the barn. Near it possibly.

I posted the pic to show that the trailer was dirty and rusted and therefore it may have been stored outside.

MOO

The incinerator could have been accommodated in the first and smaller barn nearest the road.....the roof on that barn is certainly high enough.

Difficult to judge the size of the sliding barn door in that building from the photos on line.....and the area directly in front of that door appears to be littered with all manner of junk and may make it difficult to access with big equipment.

Gumshew · Mar 4, 2016

ArianeEmory said:
BBM - I think DM already felt that way after WM and LB.

I think the rest of it was adrenaline.

JMO.

Sure, you could be right, it could be adrenaline only, we are only speculating after all.

Though, as an example, R. Ramirez used coke in tandem with the high he got from his crimes.

Gumshew · Mar 4, 2016

billandrew said:
Agreed. In my opinion, the drug aspect is more of an insight to their lifestyles than the reason for killing anyone. It shows that they were risk-seekers, thrill-seekers, and they were willing to pursue illegal activities to get their fix.

Besides drugs, there appears to be sexual risk-taking as well. Was DM's relationship with Babcock done behind CN's back, or was CN in on it? Who else was DM fooling around with?

Now, looking specifically at DM, factor in the purchase of a gun, the off-road racing, the skydiving, the stealing of vehicles, the property flipping, etc. All of these things reinforce the view of DM as someone with a high appetite for risk and adventure. It is possible that once he got a taste for violence, or more specifically, murder, nothing else could quite satisfy the hunger anymore. JMO.

That's my opinion too. Looking at their lifestyles-- who they associated with and their activities-- it involves drugs, car theft, weapons, sex,..... now murder...

All becomes a mosaic of who and what they are.

SnooperDuper · Mar 4, 2016

Stratocaster said:
...MOO the events from May 6th until the arrest of DM were definitely cocaine fuelled....not meth, not weed, not MDMA...... Pretty strong on my opinion, given the evidence presented

Juballee said:
I remember that, and I remember thinking the same thing. But I don't remember DM looking like that at all. Is it possible that one is a drug addict and the other is not?

The only "evidence" we have of any addictions are a few reports of MS smoking weed on the porch, a pack of rolling papers and a suspected (cheap, plastic, non-durable) weed grinder (that suggests he wasn't hard-core because then he'd have a metal one that would last).

Weed is cheap to smoke - the cheapest "addiction" you can have, and if you run out, the drug does not compel you to go out and perform B&E's to get more...to the contrary, the solution might just be to go to bed. It is not a gripping "addiction".

Perhaps MS is "addicted" to weed. How much weed is that? It would make MS lazy, demotivated and a follower that doesn't think clearly about what he's about to get into.

Perhaps DM used MS's weed "addiction" against him...told him he wanted to steal a truck and the stoner MS said duh, okay...totally unsuspecting that someone would end up being killed.

kramkat · Mar 4, 2016

Ontario Mom said:
Going through the slides, a few things stood out to me.

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...CRNb7IooPPZFllXFyWyCdHr42Ho/edit#slide=id.p34 Image on the right mentions "occurrence time: 9:15pm" I suspect this was speculation based on all the other evidence they have - surveillance videos, Bullard's testimony, phone pings, etc.

[B]https://docs.google.com/presenta...CRNb7IooPPZFllXFyWyCdHr42Ho/edit#slide=id.p53 In the last column (this is a picture folder) he had a file with the name of the woman who accused him of theft. I'd sure love to know what the images were in that folder.[/B]

EDIT: (forgot to add) the whole idea of backing up your phone on someone else's computer still boggles my mind.
At 6:46 here [video=youtube;cfO7B9rgltE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfO7B9rgltE[/video]

View attachment 90140

Backing up your phone is done for 1 reason only: to have access to those files in case you need them. You back it up on a pc you have full, unrestricted access to, in case you need it. You don't back it up on someone else's computer (unless you don't have one of your own, I guess?) and it doesn't automatically back up if you just plug it in to charge - you have to run the back up. I suppose it's possible the owner of this phone either didn't have a pc himself & used DM's to back up his phone, or DM backed it up without the owner's knowledge? The latter certainly wouldn't surprise me in the least.

bbm
You brought up an interesting point about the one folder. Looking at the list of storage folders on page 36, there are some strange folders even there. A "wayne" folder, "rubixAndPikapoo", "wookieAndBella", "PedoAndCats" and "drunkUncle". I wonder what some of these contain as well. I am still in such disbelief that as young as these two were, they had no inclination as to how they were leaving a technological footprint with phones, iPads, computers........ Just seems out of this world. I know people in nursing homes that know more about technology than these two!

andreww · Mar 4, 2016

For all you people that feel these guys were running on Coke, is there one piece of evidence to suggest this? From someone who knows a little bit about that particular drug, I can guarantee that police would have found something to indicate they were regular users, whether it be an unfolded bindle or the telltale rolled up bill. There has been no evidence that anything was found on either of the accused when they were arrested, or in either of their homes. I'm not saying these guys never did coke, but I will say that they didn't do it constantly.

Ironworker736 · Mar 4, 2016

andreww said:
Presumably there was a purpose for the eliminator at the hanger. DM would simply not be able sneak that under his father's nose. I think its reasonable to assume that it was purchased under the premiss of using it to burn the company's garbage, rather than paying to have it hauled away. Nonetheless, it was delivered to the hanger and from various photos taken at the hanger, it seems like it was kept there for a period of time. Sometime, presumably after WM's death, the charade was dropped and the Eliminator was moved to the farm where Dellen had always wanted it.

I think our legal system sucks in that DM doesn't have to take the stand. Wouldn't it be helpful to find out exactly what he was thinking when he purchased that thing and what was his reasoning for moving it to his non-working farm? I believe you should be obligated to take the stand in your own defence, and if you choose not to, you have to live with the consequences.

BBM

All due respect, but anything short of a James Bond-type psychotropic truth serum or Wonder Woman's magic lasso, will only yield the accused's own version of the truth. IMO forcing an accused person to the stand would not elicit the answers you seek. It could potentially yield incriminating testimony, which is why I assume it's not recommended by many defence lawyers, but incriminating doesn't necessarily equal truth. Again, MOO

ETA - btw, I would love to see him take the stand too, in case you're wondering

andreww · Mar 4, 2016

Ironworker736 said:
BBM

All due respect, but anything short of a James Bond-type psychotropic truth serum or Wonder Woman's magic lasso, will only yield the accused's own version of the truth. IMO forcing an accused person to the stand would not elicit the answers you seek. It could potentially yield incriminating testimony, which is why I assume it's not recommended by many defence lawyers, but incriminating doesn't necessarily equal truth. Again, MOO

I get that, people are going to lie. But lies are for the most part easy to see through. Isn't the purpose here to find the truth? But we all know innocent people would to a man be eager to get up and tell their side of the story, but I'm pretty sure that the number of truly innocent people that end up in court these days is verging on zero, thus there are no innocent people wanting to testify.

Stratocaster · Mar 4, 2016

Gumshew said:
No, not murdered because of drugs. Just the crazy and seemingly coke fuelled frantic back and forth activity after the murder. Take the right amount of cocaine and it will make you feel invincible, your thinking will become clearer and faster(but if you are dumb to begin with, it won't help in that department), and you will have seemingly boundless energy and not feel the need for sleep. Think of the movie Wolf of Wall Street. It's really Wall Street's drug of choice for a good reason.

...exactly, not murdered because of drugs, as the evidence suggests there was a pre-metated plan to scoop a truck. Back in the late 80's and early 90's when cocaine made its grandioso enterence into SW Ontario (bamm...it was all of a sudden everywhere in the nightlife bar-hopping world) I witnessed some crazy prolonged binges from casual acquaintances and good friends. They call it white-lightning for a reason. All MOO

JuneBug67 · Mar 4, 2016

One, both or neither being addicts is a matter of pure speculation. What can be presumed with more certainty is that by the time he was arrested Smich would have have been under significant stress for a couple of weeks. That alone could explain a drawn appearance and stepped up drug use.

SnooperDuper · Mar 4, 2016

Today is the day a judge rules if the WM trial will go ahead.

SomeITGuy · Mar 4, 2016

SnooperDuper said:
The only "evidence" we have of any addictions are a few reports of MS smoking weed on the porch, a pack of rolling papers and a suspected (cheap, plastic, non-durable) weed grinder (that suggests he wasn't hard-core because then he'd have a metal one that would last).

Weed is cheap to smoke - the cheapest "addiction" you can have, and if you run out, the drug does not compel you to go out and perform B&E's to get more...to the contrary, the solution might just be to go to bed. It is not a gripping "addiction".

Perhaps MS is "addicted" to weed. How much weed is that? It would make MS lazy, demotivated and a follower that doesn't think clearly about what he's about to get into.

Perhaps DM used MS's weed "addiction" against him...told him he wanted to steal a truck and the stoner MS said duh, okay...totally unsuspecting that someone would end up being killed.

I'm pretty sure MS had a metal grinder on his dresser too.. it was sitting on top of something else. ~~I'll repost the pic again when I can find it.~~

I found what I was looking for.. it appears to be the cap on a cologne bottle that looks very similar to a metal grinder. My mistake. At first glace it looked like two separate items.

SnooperDuper · Mar 4, 2016

SomeITGuy said:
I'm pretty sure MS had a metal grinder on his dresser too.. it was sitting on top of something else. I'll repost the pic again when I can find it.

here's one closeup view of the pile of junk, notes added

andreww · Mar 4, 2016

SomeITGuy said:
I'm pretty sure MS had a metal grinder on his dresser too.. it was sitting on top of something else. I'll repost the pic again when I can find it.

Not many "Pot addicts" out there anyway. Its not really an addictive drug because it mellows you out and makes you tired. Its not like coke or meth which keep you awake and ready to do more.

Gumshew · Mar 4, 2016

SnooperDuper said:
The only "evidence" we have of any addictions are a few reports of MS smoking weed on the porch, a pack of rolling papers and a suspected (cheap, plastic, non-durable) weed grinder (that suggests he wasn't hard-core because then he'd have a metal one that would last).

Weed is cheap to smoke - the cheapest "addiction" you can have, and if you run out, the drug does not compel you to go out and perform B&E's to get more...to the contrary, the solution might just be to go to bed. It is not a gripping "addiction".

Perhaps MS is "addicted" to weed. How much weed is that? It would make MS lazy, demotivated and a follower that doesn't think clearly about what he's about to get into.

Perhaps DM used MS's weed "addiction" against him...told him he wanted to steal a truck and the stoner MS said duh, okay...totally unsuspecting that someone would end up being killed.

Well, they could not have been die-hard drug users. IMO, both DM and SM had to hustle(various category of schemes) in order to make money and you can't do that if you are a serious drug fiend. Occasional cocaine use? IMO, yes. Cocaine dealing? Anyone's guess.

In MS's case, if you are selling weed, you can't be such a slave to it that you continuously smoke your inventory and then can't pay your supplier. Druggies and/or wiped-out pot heads do not make good drug dealers or hustlers. Gangs who hustle drugs will not hire serious druggies to street deal. You need a decent amount of wit about you if you aspire to gangsta' life. Staying fairly clean of drug addiction is good but getting caught for something as simple as a tagging task (graffiti) is so bad, it's pitiful.

SnooperDuper · Mar 4, 2016

Gumshew said:
Well, they could not have been die-hard drug users. IMO, both DM and SM had to hustle(various category of schemes) in order to make money and you can't do that if you are a serious drug fiend. Occasional cocaine use? IMO, yes. Cocaine dealing? Anyone's guess.

In MS's case, if you are selling weed, you can't be so addicted that you continuously smoke your inventory and then can't pay your supplier. Druggies do not make good drug dealers or hustlers. Gangs who hustle drugs will not hire serious druggies to street deal. You need a decent amount of wit about you if you aspire to gangsta' life. Staying fairly clean of drug addiction is good but getting caught for something as simple as a tagging task (graffiti) is so bad, it's pitiful.

When you buy your weed you buy wholesale and sell retail. That means you have a couple of units you can sell for pure profit - or use personally. You only need to sell a small amount to earn a commission that will have you stoned all day...which will be helpful as you kill time waiting for people to drop by and pick up your sales. It is totally possible to be a chronic and sell pot and not get into any money trouble. If you sell only a bit and smoke all your commissions you will never get rich, but if you sell just a bit more you'll have both smoke for yourself and commission. There's only so much pot you can smoke in a day.

Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

Administrator

Administrator

Administrator

Attachments

Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Former Member

New Member

Former Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Former Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

DNASolves

Online statistics

Forum statistics