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  1. #1
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    Please continue here.

    Related threads:

    Rebecca Zahau Wrongful Death Suit Court Docs Links

    Wrongful Death Suit threads

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    Last edited by bessie; 03-17-2016 at 03:30 AM.
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    ; Muddy water 'round my feet... as sung by the inimitable Bessie Smith, "Muddy Water (A Mississippi Moan)"

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  2. #2
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    In the post editor (box where you compose a post), a "quoted post" should look something like this:

    [QUOTE=postername;123456]blah, blah, blah[/QUOTE].

    When you submit your post, the quoted post will look like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by postername View Post
    blah, blah, blah
    But, if you omit the closing code tag [/QUOTE], you have "broken" the quote, and all succeeding posts which quote your post will be "screwed up".

    SOLUTION:
    • Ensure that a quoted post within your post is enclosed between the appropriate code tags.
    • If you delete the code tags and don't know how to fix them, DO NOT quote the post. Delete it BEFORE you submit your post.
    • Should you see a "broken quote", DO NOT quote the post. Immediately ALERT the post so a mod can repair the problem before it is repeated over and over and over again. It then becomes a major headache to straighten out.

    Thanks.

    Bessie
    __________________________________
    Muddy water in the street
    ; Muddy water 'round my feet... as sung by the inimitable Bessie Smith, "Muddy Water (A Mississippi Moan)"

    WEBSLEUTHS ON FACEBOOK



  3. #3
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    Thank you Bessie for explaining how to properly quote someone. This will make it easier for everyone. Your moderation is much appreciated!

  4. #4
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    I just want to point out to everyone that has brought up the OJ Simpson case that Law Enforcement was correct in that case. They were correct in the Casey Anthony Case as well.

    I believe Law Enforcement is absolutly correct in this case. The physical evidence says it all. There is no physical evidence that links any one of the falsely accused to the scene. Nada.

    Does that make me a member of law enforcement? No.

    What I am is someone who watched a virtual lynch mob form in the comment section of the Coronado Patch - talk about a rush to judgement! The mob was convinced it was murder on day 2, and when the Zahaus began posting and communicating with these people, the lies and rumors began to spread like the vile ooze they are. Framing innocent people for murder - and when they are in the grief of a horrible tragedy - flys in the face of justice. It is despicable.

    Does that make me employed by Strick and Co? No.

    Do all of the Zahau followers post because Mary Zahau is paying them? Are they being paid by Attorney Greer?

    I am also not Dina, not Nina, not Adam, not GS, not ES, not Howard, not Guy, Jr. I just think all of those people are victims of Rebecca Zahau and when the truth comes out, she is going to look like the angry, dumped girlfriend she was when she took her life.

    And her biggest victim of all was little Max Shacknai.
    Last edited by LuckyLucy2; 03-17-2016 at 04:44 PM.
    All above is my opinion only.


  5. #5
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    The thing the "LE got it right" crowd deliberately and conveniently overlooks is there's no possible way for LE, nor anyone else, to know if they got it right, because as has been pointed out here and elsewhere repeatedly, LE did not conduct anything remotely approaching a standard murder investigation into Rebecca Zahau's death.

    A standard murder investigation was wholly warranted based on the bizarre and improbable circumstances surrounding her death, but it was not conducted, and not only does RZ's family want to know why, so does anyone with a functioning brain, imo. The only people who are campaigning for suicide are LE that didn't do their job, for reasons we can guess at but will probably never know in detail, Jonah Shacknai, the defendants in the WDS, and those who have arbitrarily and with no evidence decided Rebecca was depressed, or angry at Jonah, or worried about "child protective services," etc.

    In order to believe RZ killed herself, one must buy, hook-line-and-sinker, the incredibly shoddy, shabby "investigation" into her death and subsequent coverup, while simultaneously assigning an unknown state of mind and unknown motives to Rebecca that would cause her to kill herself in such a manner. There seemed to have been lots of things in Rebecca's life that pointed to her love of life, and not one thing I've seen that indicated she could become suicidal on a moment's notice.

    Didn't buy it then, don't buy it now, and regardless of the outcome of the civil case, I will always believe she was killed.

  6. #6
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    ^^ Imp, so very, very well put. That is the unvarnished truth in a nutshell. I believe that LE and the rest of those that colluded on the suicide meme continue to be shocked and amazed that the public and the Zahau family didn't buy the story put together. Guess they thought none of us have the intellect to discern the difference!
    All of my posts are simply thought-starters and are not meant to be implications in any way, shape or form.

  7. #7
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    Dang Imp, well said!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyLucy2 View Post
    I just want to point out to everyone that has brought up the OJ Simpson case that Law Enforcement was correct in that case. They were correct in the Casey Anthony Case as well.

    I believe Law Enforcement is absolutly correct in this case. The physical evidence says it all. There is no physical evidence that links any one of the falsely accused to the scene. Nada.

    Does that make me a member of law enforcement? No.

    What I am is someone who watched a virtual lynch mob form in the comment section of the Coronado Patch - talk about a rush to judgement! The mob was convinced it was murder on day 2, and when the Zahaus began posting and communicating with these people, the lies and rumors began to spread like the vile ooze they are. Framing innocent people for murder - and when they are in the grief of a horrible tragedy - flys in the face of justice. It is despicable.

    Does that make me employed by Strick and Co? No.

    Do all of the Zahau followers post because Mary Zahau is paying them? Are they being paid by Attorney Greer?

    I am also not Dina, not Nina, not Adam, not GS, not ES, not Howard, not Guy, Jr. I just think all of those people are victims of Rebecca Zahau and when the truth comes out, she is going to look like the angry, dumped girlfriend she was when she took her life.

    And her biggest victim of all was little Max Shacknai.
    Ok, so somehow I think you just inadvertently just helped my point. Thank you?

  9. #9
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    Wow! Big story in the Coronado Area.

    The Hotel Del Coronado, the most historic property on Coronado Island, other than the Spreckels mansion, is being bought by a Chinese insurance company! The Hotel Del was actually built by Asian and Chinese laborers, so maybe this sale brings it full circle. Asian immigrants (just like Rebecca and her family) have always had a reputation for hard work. John D. Spreckels, the sugar tycoon who also owned Jonah's Coronado mansion, lent the money to finish the Hotel Del.

    I suppose this sale will upset some locals with deep ties to the island history, to have such an historic property bought by foreigners with "new" money. I wonder why the city or some of the wealthy philanthropists didn't try to prevent the sale of such a historic property to outsiders/ foreigners? I wonder if the Chinese will keep it the same as it is, or try to make a lot of changes?

    Is Jonah still trying to sell Spreckels? Maybe the Chinese company will buy that property, too?

    http://patch.com/california/coronado...del-coronado-1

    http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...-del-coronado/

    http://fox5sandiego.com/2016/03/14/c...-del-coronado/

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...htmlstory.html
    Last edited by K_Z; 03-18-2016 at 09:01 AM.

  10. #10
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    Spreckels Mansion was never sold.........it is not currently "on the market", and is still owned by The Jonah Shacknai Trust. The property taxes are still being paid by JS.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inparadise View Post
    Spreckels Mansion was never sold.........it is not currently "on the market", and is still owned by The Jonah Shacknai Trust. The property taxes are still being paid by JS.
    This simply follows the pattern thus far: Spin the story, duck and cover, spin the story, duck and cover..........on and on.

    When the Zahaus requested entrance to Jonah's home, Jonah said you can do it but SDSO needed to accompany them. SDSO said no. Zahaus were thus denied the ability to investigate first-hand. Then Jonah Shacknai's home is supposedly "sold" - we then find out it wasn't sold at all - just a shell corporation that bought it.

    Now who is working for whom here? Does Jonah Shacknai run SDSO? Apparently he did and probably still does IMO.

    David and Goliath still doth exists. Pathetic how the Zahaus have been run through the wringer by the taxpayers' servants.

    But thanks to one impartial judge who has chosen not to be a part of the scheme, we are going to trial. I hope every bit of this is uncovered and that charges are brought against those who chose to not only murder Rebecca but the officials that spun the story.
    All of my posts are simply thought-starters and are not meant to be implications in any way, shape or form.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by justice be served View Post
    This simply follows the pattern thus far: Spin the story, duck and cover, spin the story, duck and cover..........on and on.

    When the Zahaus requested entrance to Jonah's home, Jonah said you can do it but SDSO needed to accompany them. SDSO said no. Zahaus were thus denied the ability to investigate first-hand. Then Jonah Shacknai's home is supposedly "sold" - we then find out it wasn't sold at all - just a shell corporation that bought it.

    Now who is working for whom here? Does Jonah Shacknai run SDSO? Apparently he did and probably still does IMO.

    David and Goliath still doth exists. Pathetic how the Zahaus have been run through the wringer by the taxpayers' servants.

    But thanks to one impartial judge who has chosen not to be a part of the scheme, we are going to trial. I hope every bit of this is uncovered and that charges are brought against those who chose to not only murder Rebecca but the officials that spun the story.
    Totally agree, justice. And I'd also like to know what renovations were made to the home before Jonah put it up "faux sale" and then bought it from himself.

    I remember being absolutely infuriated that he was able to so quickly and easily renovate the murder scene, thereby insuring the disappearance of any and all remaining evidence (not that SDSO was interested in any of it). It went hand-in-hand with the entire tone of the "investigation" into Rebecca's death.

    However, what they didn't seem to count on was that their efforts were entirely transparent to anyone who was paying even a casual amount of attention. JS, the SDSO, etc. were remarkably brazen in flaunting their mission to turn RZ's death into a quickie suicide and make all evidence to the contrary go away.

    Like you, I would love to see people beyond the defendants in the WDS brought to justice.

  13. #13
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    BBM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imp View Post
    Totally agree, justice. And I'd also like to know what renovations were made to the home before Jonah put it up "faux sale" and then bought it from himself.

    I remember being absolutely infuriated that he was able to so quickly and easily renovate the murder scene, thereby insuring the disappearance of any and all remaining evidence (not that SDSO was interested in any of it). It went hand-in-hand with the entire tone of the "investigation" into Rebecca's death.


    However, what they didn't seem to count on was that their efforts were entirely transparent to anyone who was paying even a casual amount of attention. JS, the SDSO, etc. were remarkably brazen in flaunting their mission to turn RZ's death into a quickie suicide and make all evidence to the contrary go away.

    Like you, I would love to see people beyond the defendants in the WDS brought to justice.
    Regarding Spreckels, from 2007 when JS first bought it, until 2010, JS had to continuously lobby the historic commission and the city council to get approvals and permits to renovate the historic property.

    This is from a CNN transcript of Mayor Casey Tanaka on the Dr. Drew show, discussing JS's persistence at obtaining renovation permissions from roughly 2007-2010, finally getting all the approvals worked out in Feb 2011--just a few months before the deaths of Max and Rebecca:
    Dr. Drew - 7/20/2011

    PINSKY: We are back with CNN reporter, Sandra Endo. Also, criminal defense attorney, Mark Eiglarsh is still with me. And I`m joined by the sister of Nicole Brown Simpson, Tanya Brown. In addition, we`ve just been joined by the mayor of Coronado, California, Casey Tanaka. So, let me start with you, Casey. You knew both Rebecca and Jonah. Can you tell us about them as a couple?

    VOICE OF MAYOR CASEY TANAKA, CORONADO, CA: No. I only knew Jonah, and I knew Jonah because his home was designated historic in Coronado in 2006. And he became the owner around 2007. And he had been involved in a permitting process to make changes or at least to attempt to, to that historic home. So, I only knew Jonah.

    PINSKY: And can you tell us about him? What kind of guy he was and what you learned about him?

    TANAKA: Well, I think he -- I found him to be a very patient and rational person. That the red tape that one associates with trying to get a permitting done of an alteration permit for his historic home, it was kind of an arduous process for him. And at many points along the way, our commissions or even the city council itself had denied requests that he had made, and he was very constructive in terms of taking that criticism, changing his plans, and finally, in February of this year, he succeeded at getting his approvals that he was seeking.

    So, I was very impressed with the way he handled himself. He didn`t threaten lawsuits. He didn`t try to throw his weight around. And he really took our critiques to heart. So, I was very impressed by that.

    PINSKY: And it`s not as though neighbors were complaining about him or he was, you know, a suspected individual? In the community, he was just another member of the island?

    TANAKA: The only complaints I had heard had been with regard to the changes he is proposing to his house. He want a second-story addition, and he had made a proposal to try and open his roof up so that it would become a more habitable space.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../ddhln.01.html
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...62#post8374362

    There was a document on the web with all of the renovations Jonah was requesting 2007-10 that was literally more than 100 pages in length-- quite extensive, indoors and out.

    And some of the vociferous criticism of those requests to renovate: (remember-- this is the criticism of the renovations planned BEFORE Max and Rebecca's deaths)

    http://www.sohosandiego.org/endanger.../spreckels.htm
    A proposed, thoroughly unnecessary, fašade remodel to the John D. Spreckels "Beach Cottage" Residence threatens one of Coronado's most important, most prominent and most intact historic residences. If the butchering is allowed to proceed, not only will it ruin a local architectural icon, it will set a dangerous and irreversible precedent that will open the floodgates for literally any alteration to any historic resource within the city. Aside from an early 1911 addition, the 1908 Harrison Albright-designed masterpiece at 1043 Ocean Blvd. has so far remained unaltered.

    The building benefits from a property tax-saving Mills Act Contract which legally obliges the owner to preserve the home's historic integrity. Without regard for its highly acclaimed architecture, the proposed redesign will have a major visual impact on the primary elevation with numerous alterations including a large central dormer and deck addition to the spectacular character-defining broad hipped Spanish tiled roof, the addition of several new front balconies, and multiple window and door replacements. These changes do not conform to the Secretary of the Interior's Standards or honor the spirit of the Mills Act, but in an incomprehensible split 3-2 vote, the City of Coronado Historic Resource Commission approved the desecration of one of the city's most unique and irreplaceable historic resources. Their decision has been since sent to the City Council on appeal.

    SAVED - The city council denied the project for inappropriate remodeling, although this will likely come up again, for now it is safe.
    So, yes, the fact that such massive and extensive renovations to the property were so swiftly approved AFTER Max and Rebecca's deaths, smack of multi-layer influence peddling.

    IMO, it seems there was a co-dependent need by both JS and the various councils and historic commissions, to do "something" to make the property valuable again to the island, and to JS. Valuable to the city historians and locals in the sense that it could once again be more than just a "murder mansion" tourist attraction. After all, it is quite close to the Hotel Del, and one of the most historic properties, and the controversy over Rebecca's death/ murder investigation, in particular, was not good for the wholesome reputation of Coronado Island. Max's accidental death was widely seen as tragic and sad, but Rebecca's very gruesome death really rocked the community, IMO. Nearly everyone was shocked at the suicide ruling-- but IMO, it was the only way for "everyone" (except Rebecca's family) to move beyond the twin tragedies.

    Jonah is, IMO, above all things, a pragmatic businessman, and a consummate realist. He knows when to "hold 'em, when to fold 'em, when to walk away, and when to run." The entanglement of his brother in Rebecca's death, and the specter of the possibility of his teens' presence or involvement in Max's accident, forced him to make decisions and move on. Nothing was going to bring back either Max or Rebecca, so it was time to do what he could to mitigate the situation financially and otherwise.

    Clearly, he was quite persuasive and successful in quickly obtaining all the permissions and permits to essentially gut the mansion, and start over.

    And equally clearly, he knows quite well how to stay out of the media, and deflect controversy. IMO, his influence is a fairly well concealed, but commanding presence in quite a bit of all of this. As we get closer to trial, I won't be at all surprised to see his influence bubbling up again.

    I think it's extremely likely that Adam (with Jonah's help) will settle his part in this before trial. I don't see Dina or Nina settling, or even really having the means to do so-- and I don't get the sense that Jonah will be willing help those two. JMO. Apart from his brother Adam's part, I don't think Jonah really cares what happens to the other two, or what they choose to do. He'll leave the twins twisting in the breeze, IMO. But-- if/ when they start to throw Adam under the bus, I think Jonah will act swiftly to shut that down (as in, push to settle Adam's part of the case). JMO. Jonah is tremendously loyal to his kids, and his blood family, IMO.

  14. #14
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    Oh- forgot to add-- Imp, there are literally dozens of articles and pictures detailing what renovations Jonah made to the mansion after the deaths. Just search "Spreckels Mansion Coronado renovations" or similar.

    Interestingly, the renovations made after the deaths don't bear much resemblance to the renovations requested before the deaths (with the exception of window replacements, IIRC). There was even a pool placed in the courtyard where Rebecca's body laid for 13+ hours.

    I'll see if I can find the original document detailing the requested renovations from before the deaths. You can see from this article that some of the previously approved changes were part of the new renovation requests.

    The residence has become well known since last summer, when millionaire Jonah Shacknai's girlfriend Rebecca Zahau committed suicide after his six-year-old son Max died from a fall down a staircase.

    "Right now we're more concerned with trying to restore the house in a manner that the market will appreciate," Aurich said.

    It's now up to the city's Historic Resource Commission to amend an existing alteration permit to allow changes to the 27-room estate, which is now on the market for $14.5 million. They include a front elevation change by restoring the original flat roof with decks, and an observation room with a wood trellis.

    The commission has already approved new French doors off the dining and living rooms and awnings placed over windows.

    "If we came back to them with a formal plan and a full application for a historical alteration permit, then this body would review it and recommend for or against," Aurich said.

    The finished design would look like the Glorietta Bay Inn, created by architect Harrison Albright, who also designed the Ocean Boulevard home for John Spreckels. The site is protected under the Mills Act, which means the commission has to approve any changes to the outside.

    "I think it really becomes an issue of what's a more appropriate change, if there is to be any change. And I spoke to Jim Mills, and he didn't seem to have any problem with going forward with this plan," Aurich said.

    Wednesday's meeting was simply to hear from the project applicant about the renovation plans. No action was taken.
    http://www.cbs8.com/story/17106500/r...type=printable
    Last edited by K_Z; 03-19-2016 at 03:17 PM.

  15. #15
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    Feb 2, 2009:

    Architect Opposes Spreckels' Proposed Remodel for Failure to Comply With "The Standards"

    The proposed remodel of the historic Spreckels Mansion has not changed in any significant way since my last letter and it continues to violate The Secretary of the Interior’s Standards, despite the wordsmithing of the applicants hired consultants. While the conditions of approval recommended by the Historic Resource Commission are helpful (such as requiring a window condition survey) they do not solve the most important violations of The Standards. In my professional opinion, the four items that still do not meet The Standards are:

    1. The addition of the “operable” dormer on the front portion of the main roof. This large addition is highly visible from the street and completely changes the appearance of the main roof. Has a hydraulic roof-lifting system ever been installed before? The applicant’s claim that this alteration is to provide “code-required” natural light and air is spurious. There is no such building code requirement for a historic residence that is to remain a residence. There has also been no description as to how often the dormer will be open, creating an awkward gash in the roof.

    2. The addition of the second floor master bedroom on the southeast side. This addition is also highly visible from the street and completely changes the symmetry of the main house. The Standards recommend that additions be located at the rear of a building to avoid altering the primary facades of historic structures.

    3. The most prominent window on the house, the front picture window above the main entry, is being bisected with a new interior wall -- basically cutting it in half. This alteration is not even addressed in the applicant’s submittal, despite it having a negative impact on the exterior.

    4. The demolition of two original windows on the first floor – again on the front facade – and their replacement by new French doors. This change is not necessary and violates The Standards because it results in “the removal of distinctive materials... that characterize a property.”

    Please note that all of my objections are to exterior alterations on the primary front facade of the house. The Standards provide a great deal of leeway when it comes to altering interiors and secondary facades. Front facades are considered sacred and are not to be dealt with carelessly. There is no reason why the applicant could not redesign their expansion to stay clear of the primary front facade. What they are asking for is too much, especially for a resource of this importance which has
    a Mills Act contract.
    http://coronadocommonsense.typepad.c...009/02/page/7/

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