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  1. #1576
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    822
    I have personally had rhinoplasty for medical reasons ( car accident) and it took over a month to recover. Not only the bruises swelling and pain but the nausea and dizziness that go with it due to the sense of balance being disturbed. Different people heal at different rates based on genetics and diet, but two weeks is a stretch. I believe I had read she was genetically ruled out on another forum but I am not sure which one honestly.


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  2. #1577
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    12
    I'd be very interested to see that. I've seen it implied, as in FLEK's DNA sample was run against NamUS database but no hits have come up/so far no hits/with no hits but nothing to specifically say JMW was compared to FLEK

  3. #1578
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Yorkshire
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    6,059
    Hi all, just wondering what the upshot was with the professor dude who reckoned DNA had been matched?

    I recall he was working on the Somerton Man case - but I can't find it anywhere, what happened to that thread?!

  4. #1579
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by LeTour View Post
    To the other poster that suggested contacting NamUS for positive DNA corroboration, is it really that easy? Do I just contact them and say "Ayyy I got a hunch Jennifer Marie Wictor is Lori Erica Ruff, wanna check that out?"
    Yup. The NAMUS sites always have contact people. Give them a call. There are seven exclusions for FLEK, Jennifer Wictor is not one of them. But we don't report hunches. Sit down with a sheet of paper, list the reasons you think it could be a match, because you will be asked why you think so.... physical similarity, timeline, etc.A well reasoned idea will be welcome but if you have been reading tea leaves or just feel it in your bones you won't get far.

    You can't find out anything about JMV, and I would really like to know why they would be so secretive on a case nearly thirty years old.

  5. #1580
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnum P.E. View Post
    Yup. The NAMUS sites always have contact people. Give them a call. There are seven exclusions for FLEK, Jennifer Wictor is not one of them. But we don't report hunches. Sit down with a sheet of paper, list the reasons you think it could be a match, because you will be asked why you think so.... physical similarity, timeline, etc.A well reasoned idea will be welcome but if you have been reading tea leaves or just feel it in your bones you won't get far.

    You can't find out anything about JMV, and I would really like to know why they would be so secretive on a case nearly thirty years old.
    Would the information in my previous post (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...4#post12720264) be (outside of speculations) adequate enough to warrant that? IE the notes about physical similarity, and the timeline

  6. #1581
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Porrtland, Oregon
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener1850 View Post
    I think it's great that you have been contacting people sunnynz!
    I would draw the same conclusions about a non-reply possibly meaning they know something and don't want to put a denial of knowing her in writing. However, I also want to give them the benefit of the doubt. If a stranger from outside the US messaged me on fb to ask if I knew a woman who committed suicide, I might not reply. I might even go so far as to block that person on fb. Even a seemingly nice person like you. Try not to take it personally. Some people spook easily. The important thing is you tried. Maybe he doesn't know anything but will look into the case and get back to you in a few weeks. Maybe he will become interested in doing a new film that includes Lori's story. Anything that gets more people interested may make the case go viral and help solve this case.
    This reminds me of an odd email I received earlier this month. Some woman in Nottinghamshire wanted to book a yurt from me. It was a little spooky because our family had plans to vacation at the beach here in Oregon, & had reserved a yurt for that; & it was also a little spooky because she had the same last name that I have -- which is an uncommon one. Anyway I ignored it, assuming she had simply typed in the wrong email address & the next email she wrote would have the right address. Besides, not answering it was the easiest solution, since it wasn't my problem.

    However, she emailed me a second time about it, which prompted me to reply & tell her she had the wrong person. I figured she was going to keep emailing me about renting a yurt (which I couldn't help her with) until I did so.

    Maybe in this case, the persons SunnyNZ need a second contact to prompt a response. Maybe they assumed this was just some odd person contacting them about something neither remembers very clearly. Or maybe the relationship one or both had with her was something they find difficult to talk about, & ignoring SunnyNZ was easier than talking about knowing LEK.

    Anyway, thanks to SunnyNZ for at least trying.

  7. #1582
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Chicagoland
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    3,351
    Thought I would post this. It is the Dallas area Naturalization Petitions from 1906-1989. Also, included on some records are Name Changes. Thought it might help with the Asian Connection. I've checked the names LEK and BST and came up short, but wanted to post it, in case anyone wanted to scroll through all of them to see if they could come up with anything.

    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/...983&cc=1389983

    Anyone remember if FLEK had a Chandler address in Dallas? I thought I remember one being posted, but my memory is foggy these days.

  8. #1583
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    2,225
    Quote Originally Posted by BigCityAccountant View Post
    Thought I would post this. It is the Dallas area Naturalization Petitions from 1906-1989. Also, included on some records are Name Changes. Thought it might help with the Asian Connection. I've checked the names LEK and BST and came up short, but wanted to post it, in case anyone wanted to scroll through all of them to see if they could come up with anything.

    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/...983&cc=1389983

    Anyone remember if FLEK had a Chandler address in Dallas? I thought I remember one being posted, but my memory is foggy these days.
    Thank you BCA. I would be really interested in running some of the Lebaron clan surnames through this, particularly the names associated with Mexico. Does one have to have an account in ancestry to do that?

  9. #1584
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Porrtland, Oregon
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    239
    Quote Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion View Post
    I've been curious about that, too. Regarding his main (first) post (linked upthread):

    I'm wondering what establishment they both worked at where he was 17 and she 21 (and where he gave her a ride home):

    - In Texas, most teens don't get their driver's license until 18, unless it's a hardship license.
    Is that the law, or just economics? If it's because most teens can't afford a car, SS1988 did say he came from an "upper middle class home", & he might have been driving the family's spare car for convenience. (When I was a teenager, which was long before 1988, it was not that unusual for high school seniors to be able to drive. Most either used one of the family cars, or owned the typical beater that teenagers can afford.)

    - Irving is "wet", and if she (and he) were working at a gentleman's "establishment" (as has been rumored for those late 1980s years) I'd wonder at his working there underage where drinks are served--not up on the laws on that currently, so someone can maybe fill me in.
    Who says they worked as a gentleman's "establishment"? It might have been a chain fast-food place that one really can't call a "restaurant". Or it might have been something like a senior's home, & SS1988 was trying to be vague & hide that fact. But that point is debatable.

    - I'd really, really wonder at LEK dating a 17-yr old in 1988, because LEK was likely in her late 20s in 1988 (if not almost 30)...

    That said, it's not impossible. Just falls in the 'improbable' realm for me without more facts or outside verification.
    Here you have me going from thinking this story is 60% likely to 60% unlikely. I had overlooked their ages until you pointed it out. From what I've seen of 17-year-old males (& having been one) not one would invite a 21-year-old female to dinner without thoughts of sex, especially one as attractive as LEK was in photos of the time. (And by SS1988's account their relationship was clearly not sexual, just two people hanging out a lot.) Not to say he needed to (so to say) give us a blow-by-blow account of their private activities, but there is no admission that these thoughts went thru his head before he decided that just "visiting with each other, watching television together, and cruising" with an older woman was sufficient in this case. Unless you believe his odd comment about LEK's "personal hygiene was immaculate" & that she was "a Lady" were his attempts to deal with this.

    And why a 21-year-old would be seen with a 17-year-old is also puzzling. People that age are very insecure about being adults, & it's more likely she'd be trying to associate herself with someone older.

    But, the biggest problem is, of course, the timeline. I doubt he met her working in Irving in March or April of 1988 when she was still in California May 20 (1988) getting that fake birth certificate, in Idaho June 16 (1988) getting the fake state ID card, and then in Texas, July 12 (1988) getting that SS# (with a Dallas-area address far from Irving but near other strip clubs). She would have had neither passport nor TX ID/Social Security # to be working at any Irving establishment, yet (in Mar/Apr 1988).

    So to me, no...this doesn't add up. Though I like that he was trying to stick up for her.
    I don't have a problem with the timeline. There are a lot of blanks in LEK's life, especially in the first years after she moved to the Dallas area. I think it's entirely plausible that she may have moved to Texas several months before she obtained the birth certificate for BST & used it to become LEK, & could have lived under her birth name for months after she presented herself in court to change BST's name to LEK. But that could be true & SS1988's post a total fiction; re-reading his post & seeing his claim that he was a 17-year-old dating a 21-year-old is what makes me doubt him now.

    But you are right; SS1988 was trying to stick up for her. <modsnip>
    Last edited by sillybilly; 07-30-2016 at 11:42 PM. Reason: unnecessary; personalizing

  10. #1585
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    15,869
    Please remain respectful when discussing information provided by other members who joined up to provide input regarding this case. We can choose to believe / disbelieve or query the specifics they provide, but please do not personalize by publicly questioning another member's credibility. We don't want to discourage anyone from coming to the case with information that may be helpful and have answers that we seek.



  11. #1586
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    15

    TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #4

    For what it's worth, I've lived in Texas my entire life and got my license at 16. Every single one of my friends was driving at 16, most in their own cars. Maybe the law was different in the 80's, though. I turned 16 in 2001, so my experience may not be the same as FLEK and cohorts/peers.


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  12. #1587
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    3,315
    Due to Lori's height and big bone build, after looking at many pictures , I think this size can rule her out from the majority of people. Where you might add or subtract 1 to 2 inches on a regular size person, Lori is too big to do that.

    I read the entireLeBarons thread yesterday, compared pictures, followed some rabbit holes. The most likely picture match I have found is the one of Lori in the younger drivers license picture with her hair in a pony tail compared to Jacqueline LeBarons mugshot. I believe Lori had a nose job, her eyes lifted to make them appear wider and where the tip bends to the left, that was a mistake.
    image.jpg

  13. #1588
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    411
    I have been thinking of another theory lately with nothing to substantiate it, except instinct. What if FLEK's father did some major crime which either 1) hit her in the dignity feelers or 2) po'd some influential people off ..... and was subsequently sentenced to a long time in jail where he had/has no access to stories such as this. And/or, the mother did pass away, or she was raised in foster homes. Then to distance herself from him.... this is what she did?

    402 months could mean her dad's sentence?
    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    HerStory SN
    Unhinged Busybody Extraordinaire

  14. #1589
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    New thread is open for posting. Please continue discussion at Thread #5.

    This thread is now closed.
    Last edited by sillybilly; 07-31-2016 at 03:53 AM.

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