Man in Coma 'heard everything'

An Italian man has emerged from a two-year-long coma claiming he retained his powers of hearing and comprehension throughout his illness, his family say. Salvatore Crisafulli, 38, is recovering at home after years spent in what doctors had termed a "near-dead" state.

He is quoted as saying that his "miraculous" recovery proves euthanasia cannot be justified for coma patients.


According to Italian media, Mr Crisafulli claims to have overheard doctors saying he was not conscious.

"I understood everything and I cried in desperation," he said.

Mr Crisafulli has recovered the power of speech and recollection, his brother Pietro told Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera.

"I don't expect that he will be like he was, but it's already a miracle," he was quoted as saying.

"And to think that some doctors said that it was all useless and that he would be dead in three, four months."

Pietro Crisafulli compared his brother to Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged US woman who died earlier this year amid a storm of controversy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4313118.stm

Casshew said:

An Italian man has emerged from a two-year-long coma claiming he retained his powers of hearing and comprehension throughout his illness, his family say. Salvatore Crisafulli, 38, is recovering at home after years spent in what doctors had termed a "near-dead" state.

He is quoted as saying that his "miraculous" recovery proves euthanasia cannot be justified for coma patients.


According to Italian media, Mr Crisafulli claims to have overheard doctors saying he was not conscious.

"I understood everything and I cried in desperation," he said.

Mr Crisafulli has recovered the power of speech and recollection, his brother Pietro told Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera.

"I don't expect that he will be like he was, but it's already a miracle," he was quoted as saying.

"And to think that some doctors said that it was all useless and that he would be dead in three, four months."

Pietro Crisafulli compared his brother to Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged US woman who died earlier this year amid a storm of controversy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4313118.stm

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Cassie this witch is enough to send Mr. Gabby into a coma....... :doh:

Gabby said:

Cassie this witch is enough to send Mr. Gabby into a coma....... :doh:

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Remember - he may 'hear everything' so don't pull the plug!

Coma, unfortunately, is not the same as PVS.

What makes you say that?

Eagle1 said:

What makes you say that?

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Because people wake from short or long term coma's all the time and are at the same mental state.

No one 'wakes up' from PVS to return to the usual self.

Pook said:

Because people wake from short or long term coma's all the time and are at the same mental state.

No one 'wakes up' from PVS to return to the usual self.

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Uh oh!! Here comes this topic again but to your thoughts Pook,
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

oh boy,, here we go again...

but the fact remains, TERRI SHIAVO WAS *NOT* IN A COMA (duh), so there is no comparison.

OK, other than... they were both IN A BED for a long time....???? hhhmm.....

I agree with you guys about PVS. My mom was in a PVS and we took her off life support. Even if she had "woken up" she wouldn't be the same and I know that she wouldn't have wanted to "live" like that. Sure, they are "awake" but they would have no quality of life.

Hbgchick said:

Coma, unfortunately, is not the same as PVS.

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I'm a little behind the 8-ball, been away for awhile, but someone asked "why would you say that?". Well...because it they AREN'T the same.

Coma and Persistent Vegetative State


A coma is a profound or deep state of unconsciousness. The affected individual is alive but is not able to react or respond to life around him/her. Coma may occur as an expected progression or complication of an underlying illness, or as a result of an event such as head trauma.

A persistent vegetative state, which sometimes follows a coma, refers to a condition in which individuals have lost cognitive neurological function and awareness of the environment but retain noncognitive function and a perserved sleep-wake cycle.

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/921394859.html

One big difference - a coma patient's brain is not atrophied away until most of it is liquid.

It's the difference between a sore throat, stuffed up nose, and cough from allergies versus a sore throat, stuffed up nose, and cough from a cold; the flu; pnuemonia. They all can look the same, but what is happening in the body, how dangerous they are is very, very different. Different processes, same symptoms (roughly).

Details said:

One big difference - a coma patient's brain is not atrophied away until most of it is liquid.

It's the difference between a sore throat, stuffed up nose, and cough from allergies versus a sore throat, stuffed up nose, and cough from a cold; the flu; pnuemonia. They all can look the same, but what is happening in the body, how dangerous they are is very, very different. Different processes, same symptoms (roughly).

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Hey! Great explanation!! Thanks.....

Doctors who weren't on the payroll for this political euthanasia project (Terri Schiavo) kept repeating that she was NOT in a PVS, some of whom had personally examined her and some who'd watched video's. Those of us who also saw the video's know "seeing is believing". She was answering her dad, right after the feeding tube was removed for the last time. I saw and heard her myself, no mistake. You don't even have to be a professional to get it.

There's been corruption in all fields, always, "rotten apples in every barrel", and we just need to use some common sense, like the kid in "The Emporer's New Clothes", a kid who wasn't old enough to know about any "party line", just blurted out the whole darned truth, the Emporer wasn't wearing any. He'd been hoodwinked by weavers who claimed the cloth was so fine it was invisible to all but the most astute. He didn't want to admit to inferiority, so he pretended he could see cloth.

Do you remember that it took a lot longer to get this "medical examiner's report" than they'd promised? Think what you want, but I suspect they were dickering about the price, to say her brain was atrophied and liquified.

To keep from maybe getting sued, we have to always say, "Just my opinion", so there's that. Do we want to be suckers just because it's "politically correct", as in the Emporer story? Your choice.

See the earlier definition of PVS someone gave about, about PVS often following a coma, the person retains their normal sleep pattern, evidently hears and processes everything though unable to communicate well enough or at all. Honest doctors said there's new descriptions, and Terri wasn't in the lowest one, may even have been at 3, that they'd have to do testing to find out exactly. The euthanasia ones were using outdated criteria, and expect us to fall for it too.

We just do not have the right to decide on someone else's quality of life. Doctors may think they do, according to a TV show I saw recently, but have to use some drug that's more painful than a detectable one. He was convicted of 2nd degree, I think. I believe that's maybe "manslaughter".

So many couples kill each other, you wouldn't think they'd ever leave it up to the spouse, or families either, who just can't really know. They may not be able to afford care or may not want to be bothered, so they'd say he or she wouldn't want to live like this. I don't claim to know what should be done but I do think people rationalize too much and there should be safeguards. I'm on some mailing list-news alerts about this sort of thing since Terri's case, and believe there've been several who've recovered from PVS. And there's always a first time for everything. If I'm mistaken and it hasn't been happening, we have no way of knowing it couldn't ever happen. We're learning new ways to be healthier and someone just might recover.

Terri clearly said no, when her dad asked did her leg hurt, and one or two other things. Probably they jerked the tube out w/out anesthetic and that was hurting, plus she probably knew it was her life source. I firmly believe she would have recovered. Several people took 20 yrs, and I believe it was said they had PVS. The articles were speculating Terri might do the same. I may have printed out some, but as you might guess I have such a stack of printouts it'd take too long to find them. I think minds are already made up anyway and I'd be wasting my time and effort.

so the autopsy on her was completely wrong?

I guess people are entitled to believe what they want to believe.

Eagle1 said:

Doctors who weren't on the payroll for this political euthanasia project (Terri Schiavo) kept repeating that she was NOT in a PVS, some of whom had personally examined her and some who'd watched video's. Those of us who also saw the video's know "seeing is believing". She was answering her dad, right after the feeding tube was removed for the last time. I saw and heard her myself, no mistake. You don't even have to be a professional to get it.

There's been corruption in all fields, always, "rotten apples in every barrel", and we just need to use some common sense, like the kid in "The Emporer's New Clothes", a kid who wasn't old enough to know about any "party line", just blurted out the whole darned truth, the Emporer wasn't wearing any. He'd been hoodwinked by weavers who claimed the cloth was so fine it was invisible to all but the most astute. He didn't want to admit to inferiority, so he pretended he could see cloth.

Do you remember that it took a lot longer to get this "medical examiner's report" than they'd promised? Think what you want, but I suspect they were dickering about the price, to say her brain was atrophied and liquified.

To keep from maybe getting sued, we have to always say, "Just my opinion", so there's that. Do we want to be suckers just because it's "politically correct", as in the Emporer story? Your choice.

See the earlier definition of PVS someone gave about, about PVS often following a coma, the person retains their normal sleep pattern, evidently hears and processes everything though unable to communicate well enough or at all. Honest doctors said there's new descriptions, and Terri wasn't in the lowest one, may even have been at 3, that they'd have to do testing to find out exactly. The euthanasia ones were using outdated criteria, and expect us to fall for it too.

We just do not have the right to decide on someone else's quality of life. Doctors may think they do, according to a TV show I saw recently, but have to use some drug that's more painful than a detectable one. He was convicted of 2nd degree, I think. I believe that's maybe "manslaughter".

So many couples kill each other, you wouldn't think they'd ever leave it up to the spouse, or families either, who just can't really know. They may not be able to afford care or may not want to be bothered, so they'd say he or she wouldn't want to live like this. I don't claim to know what should be done but I do think people rationalize too much and there should be safeguards. I'm on some mailing list-news alerts about this sort of thing since Terri's case, and believe there've been several who've recovered from PVS. And there's always a first time for everything. If I'm mistaken and it hasn't been happening, we have no way of knowing it couldn't ever happen. We're learning new ways to be healthier and someone just might recover.

Terri clearly said no, when her dad asked did her leg hurt, and one or two other things. Probably they jerked the tube out w/out anesthetic and that was hurting, plus she probably knew it was her life source. I firmly believe she would have recovered. Several people took 20 yrs, and I believe it was said they had PVS. The articles were speculating Terri might do the same. I may have printed out some, but as you might guess I have such a stack of printouts it'd take too long to find them. I think minds are already made up anyway and I'd be wasting my time and effort.

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Sorry, but I thought this thread ws about an Italian man who awakened from a coma? Which led to discussion about the difference between PVS and coma? There are whole bunches of Terri Schiavo threads out there, please go ressurect one if you want to rehash all of this over again. Like the case itself, Terri's parents and their supports just WILL NOT LET THIS GO, and those of us who just want her to rest in peace have to keep listening to it. Please, post your opinion on what happened to Terri Schaivo on a thread dedicated to that topic.

Pook said:

"so the autopsy on her was completely wrong? I guess people are entitled to believe what they want to believe."

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I didn't say the autopsy was all completely wrong, Pook! In fact it may have cleared up a thing or two we'd been told wrongly. For instance, It didn't verify any potassium disorder. .

She was talking, so her brain couldn't have been liquified, Lynie, which internet posters must have just assumed. I seem to remember someone's scan didn't have the white spot that Terri's real ones had, showing an experimental device that had been implanted.

She managed to say half of a sentence the woman lawyer gave her, and probably could have finished it if the woman had repeated the rest of it for her again. She clearly answered her Dad, when she was crying right after the tube removal, meaning she knew that was her life source being taken away and/or maybe it also hurt. When he'd ask does your leg hurt, or another body part, she'd say No, very clearly. I watched a video, somebody made, evidently knowing the principle of the thing would never go away.

She's not off-subject in a discussion of such similar cases. The news about the Italian man came to some of us from the same source as Terri news, a mailing list we subscribed to during the Terri case. BTW, the Terri thread here has been deleted, and it's just as well. The facts were not all in, and still aren't. We still don't know how she got in such a state. They've also reported other recovery cases since then, and a couple were already on record, spontaneous recovery after 20 yrs.

During initial therapy, before the lawsuit award "to pay for therapy", the spouse evidently testified and had doctors testify would help her, she was talking, eating pudding and jello, always swallowed her own saliva, and her arms weren't so atrophied. Surely we remember that the spouse arbitrarily switched his story to the opposite, and had all her therapy withdrawn. The nurses who risked their jobs to testify said if they even tried to make Terri more comfortable, for instance, putting a balled up washcloth into her hands to keep her from digging her nails into them, he'd say that was therapy and get mad, so they were afraid of him.

If we don't defend truth about this, (and even if we do) it could happen to any of us some time. It's the only thing we can still do for her and others, and obviously that's why the Italian man's story is reported. It was pretty soon after her death.

Maybe she would have recovered in another 5 yrs, w/out even minimal therapy, and the world would have found out the cause of her collapse. None of us can know for sure. Doctors didn't predict recovery for the others that did recover. They still don't know why and how. Can't replicate. There's still a lot to learn about these cases, evidently.

Pook said:

so the autopsy on her was completely wrong?

I guess people are entitled to believe what they want to believe.

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As to the classic statement - "We are entitled to our own beliefs. We are not entitled to our own facts."

But that's as far as I'll carry it on a nonrelated thread - other than to say that what Eagle1 is saying is not anything that is credible at all as facts - those reports were not backed up at all. Start a thread on Schiavo, and we can have it out yet again... Not that it will change anyone's mind.

Eagle1 said:

She was talking, so her brain couldn't have been liquified, Lynie, which internet posters must have just assumed. I seem to remember someone's scan didn't have the white spot that Terri's real ones had, showing an experimental device that had been implanted.

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WHOA!! What did I do Eagle? But if I had posted something it would have been that thank God Ms. Shaivo is at peace. I just don't understand how it is the business of so many people that have no direct knowledge besides what they have read, and how those people can make so many character assasinations and be so medically knowledgable without more than an high school biology class :banghead:

Also, isn't making it to heaven the highest attainment? Didn't she suffer enough through the years to be able to receive her final heavenly position?


Moving on now :slap: :slap: :slap:

lynie

Details, I doubt the mods would allow another Terri thread, since the long one was all deleted, and we've about made our point about her rights. I just didn't want any mis-statements about that to get started up again. An ounce of prevention.

Have you heard, they found references to HITLER, and Rabin's assassination in the recently discovered Bible Codes? (I remember from the thread about Catholics considering ordination of celebate gays you said you're an unbeliever. Correct me if I've got that wrong.)

Sometimes there's a documentary about it on A and E or the History Channel. They have to put individual characters or letters in whatever language that is, onto a chart they call a Matrix, and use computers. There's no telling what all may happen that is predicted that way, besides the open prophecy sections anyone can read, so, the statement in it that our Maker has given us a choice between life and death and says "Therefore, choose life," is a valuable statement. I can't emphasize enough how important and eternal it is.

In other words, "Heaven Can Wait" and NOBODY has any moral right to decide quality of life for anyone else, to slowly starve/dehydrate them to death. Some families may not be able to care for their own, but Terri's were more than willing to take her. Probably you don't believe there's a devil, but anyway, it's one of the devil's malicious lies that we should feel free to send Christians to the next world whenever we please. The Commandments are so that we may prosper and be in health,and LIVE long upon the earth. That is our Maker's STATED Will for us.

The euthanasia Drs wouldn't know that, and didn't even know there's some new developments and new terms replacing PVS.

"Minimally Conscious" has various stages. The up-to-date ones said she was at least a 2 or 3, not vegetative, but the bullies managed to get their way over Christians who weren't doing anything to them. Claimed it wasn't any rescuers' business, but rescue is anyone's business who can attempt it. The matter was none of THEIR business, the unprofessionals who didn't even keep updated about the condition.

Some blog doctor said the experimental device that had been implanted wasn't even touching anything it was supposed to stimulate, and that it was a good thing, because if so and so happened she could have been electrocuted. Sorry, I can't remember where I read that or any more details. Maybe someone else saw it. Her scans had a white dot, like on an xray. For the record, I believe the one some poster said proved her brain was liquified didn't have the white spot.

Lynie, yesterday morning I was thinking you were the one who said the one woman's brain had liquified. "Scuse me if it wasn't you. Sorry. It was very early, way before daylight and maybe I was still a bit sleepy. Doing it again today. Nobody's assassinating any characters. We're defending some, Christians' in general, because there are those that want to play God and send us too early to our reward. Life on earth is meant to be valued and respected.

As the opening post said, words to the effect of, Don't pull the plug. They can hear you and know what's going on. They may get a miracle. These things take time. Some recovered spontaneously after 20 yrs, who weren't able to talk even as much as Terri could. They stated they always could think and hear and cried in frustration because they couldn't communicate. I do believe that's the whole point of this thread. As in Fiddler on the Roof, "To Life!"

For someone who doesn't think we can have another Terri thread, you sure are trying to turn this one into one. I'm not going to help you with that - doesn't seem like what the mods would want, and it's not appropriate. I'll just leave it at that I disagree with very nearly everything you are saying, most especially the things you claim are facts, and stop there.