Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #11

Sillybilly · Feb 5, 2016

Please continue discussion here until the trial resumes Monday morning, April 25.

Special note to any Websleuths members who may attend court:

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Sillybilly · Feb 5, 2016

:rose: Remembering Tim Bosma and waiting for Justice :rose:

National Post

By Molly Hayes

B821254669Z.1_20130514195432_000_GQ9VSLAR.2_Content.jpg

TIM AND HIS DAUGHTER
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family

Sillybilly · Feb 11, 2016

Tim Bosma and his baby daughter
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family

Tim and Sharlene Bosma's wedding pic displayed at the memorial for Tim
from: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6258681-clairmont-sharlene-bosma-brings-loving-laughter-to-court/

andreww · Apr 22, 2016

billandrew said:
Given the wealth of evidence in this trial, and the fact that much of it is presented "as is", I find it easy to get lost on finer points that may or may not be relevant. It must be a huge challenge for the jurors to always keep a sight on the big picture, while also making sure no important detail is overlooked.

I don't think so. The evidence was abundant, and even though much of it was presented "as is", one would have to think these guys were victims of the longest string of coincidences in history in order to deny the relevance of it all.

The tricky part is happening right now. The jury today heard that MS told MM that Millard did it all, and it possible that CN will say something similar about what DM told her. But as I understand it, even though the jury heard today that Millard did it, the must ignore that testimony as it relates to Millard. So the can find MS innocent because of it but they can't find Millard guilty because of it. That will be the confusing part.

Inspector_North · Apr 22, 2016

billandrew said:
Meneses's testimony today is the only evidence (that I'm aware of) that the jury has heard to explain how Smich was notified of Millard's arrest. And whether she was lying or not, I think everyone agrees that her explanation was wrong because the news of Millard's arrest did not actually hit the news until the following day.

Therefore, the jury has not heard any reliable evidence to explain how Smich found out about Millard's arrest. Of all the phone activity and extraction reports presented by the Crown, there is nothing to show that anyone contacted Smich between the time of Millard's arrest and the time that Smich first contacted Michalski to tell him "they got Dell." Is this not a critical or important event? If Millard's lawyer was the one who contacted Smich, would there be a reason why that couldn't be disclosed in the court?

One thing we do know, is that CN was trying to contact DM as late as 9:12 p.m. on the 10th. If it was not on the news, and unless CN learned within minutes of her last call to DM, I doubt she tipped off MS.

I also don't believe that MB would call MS. I can't even figure what phone she would call to reach MS. Doubt she even knew MM to have or look up the phone number.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
8:04 p.m. from Kinks: Hellooooo? 9:10 p.m. from Kinks: Call me. 9:12 p.m. a call from Kinks...by then, Millard was under arrest. #Bosma

and this about MS calling AM........

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 11s11 seconds ago
May 10, 9:20 p.m. 44 second call from Smich. Starts a series of calls

Also. If it was only the new updated description of the suspects on the news that MM heard, it doesn't explain the call at 9:20 p.m. to AM saying they got Dell. MS had to know he was arrested, and not just freaking out about the description.

MOO

matou · Apr 22, 2016

Not sure if already posted:

[h=1]Tim Bosma Murder Trial: Mark Smich’s girlfriend Marlena Meneses | EXHIBIT #149 and #150[/h]
[video=youtube;bVjo9kWPfXM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVjo9kWPfXM&list=UUnsj4TU7mOQ-4l2HOaRekgA&index=1[/video]

hellkat2 · Apr 22, 2016

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/accused-b...py-hamilton-man-vanished-162509880.html?nhp=1

Testimony under duress?

ArianeEmory · Apr 22, 2016

Maybe a question for Abro:

Several mentions in the last page or two of a press conference re DM's arrest on Saturday. However, surely an official press conference can't be the only way every single arrest in Canada enters the public record?

Again looking at this from a US print media perspective, but once you're arrested it's a matter of public record. We had reporters who worked the "crime blotter", and part of that was watching the arrest logs, including hanging out at the courthouses and jails.

I was leaning towards MM misremembering seeing it on television Friday until it was pointed out that JV said the same thing. Now I'm leaning towards some news channel or another had a source or was just on top of the game.

If arrests in Canada really are "secret" until a press event, let me know.

LoyalSleuth · Apr 22, 2016

I wonder how MM contacted MS by voice on May 6 at 9pm? What phone did he have?
He was messaging her from the iPad on early hours of May 7,he even texts her saying I don't have a phone, but how did she call him at 9pm May 6?

If the assumption was that MS was driving the Yukon during the call, as he told MM he was driving, and DM in TBs truck with TB, what voice device did MS have?

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk

andreww · Apr 22, 2016

Inspector_North said:
One thing we do know, is that CN was trying to contact DM as late as 9:12 p.m. on the 10th. If it was not on the news, and unless CN learned within minutes of her last call to DM, I doubt she tipped off MS.

I also don't believe that MB would call MS. I can't even figure what phone she would call to reach MS. Doubt she even knew MM to have or look up the phone number.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 3m3 minutes ago
8:04 p.m. from Kinks: Hellooooo? 9:10 p.m. from Kinks: Call me. 9:12 p.m. a call from Kinks...by then, Millard was under arrest. #Bosma

and this about MS calling AM........

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 11s11 seconds ago
May 10, 9:20 p.m. 44 second call from Smich. Starts a series of calls

Also. If it was only the new updated description of the suspects on the news that MM heard, it doesn't explain the call at 9:20 p.m. to AM saying they got Dell. MS had to know he was arrested, and not just freaking out about the description.

MOO

I think the timing of those calls is more than a coincidence. I think a desperate CN called MB just after 9:12 and found out DM had been arrested. She then calls MS and alerts him. This would be the perfect timing for Smich to start making his calls at 9:20.

LoyalSleuth · Apr 22, 2016

Maybe when CN called DM at 9:12pm on May 10, maybe an officer answered the phone?

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk

ABro · Apr 22, 2016

ArianeEmory said:
Maybe a question for Abro:

Several mentions in the last page or two of a press conference re DM's arrest on Saturday. However, surely an official press conference can't be the only way every single arrest in Canada enters the public record?

Again looking at this from a US print media perspective, but once you're arrested it's a matter of public record. We had reporters who worked the "crime blotter", and part of that was watching the arrest logs, including hanging out at the courthouses and jails.

I was leaning towards MM misremembering seeing it on television Friday until it was pointed out that JV said the same thing. Now I'm leaning towards some news channel or another had a source or was just on top of the game.

If arrests in Canada really are "secret" until a press event, let me know.

In Canada, not all arrests are made public via press conference or press release, but this doesn't mean they are kept "secret". Information can be obtained variously by talking to police, or by FOI requests, or by court records if the arrested person is eventually charged.

If you think about it, you can see good reasons for not automatically releasing all arrest info. It can be very damaging to reputation, especially when the arrest doesn't lead to charges. (I suspect "police blotter" policy varies from state to state in the US like mugshot release policy.)

The Friday timing is indeed curious and I suspect the jury will hear more if it's important.

andreww · Apr 22, 2016

LoyalSleuth said:
I wonder how MM contacted MS by voice on May 6 at 9pm? What phone did he have?
He was messaging her from the iPad on early hours of May 7,he even texts her saying I don't have a phone, but how did she call him at 9pm May 6?

If the assumption was that MS was driving the Yukon during the call, as he told MM he was driving, and DM in TBs truck with TB, what voice device did MS have?

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk

This the conversation where he said "I'm busy, driving"? Thats a good point.

andreww · Apr 22, 2016

LoyalSleuth said:
Maybe when CN called DM at 9:12pm on May 10, maybe an officer answered the phone?

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk

Possibly. However from what we heard the first thing LE would do is power off the phone and remove the SIM to prevent it from being remotely wiped. I think a likelier scenario is that DM called MB for her to arrange of quick legal representation. CN probably found out from her and alerted MS to empty the house.

Inspector_North · Apr 22, 2016

LoyalSleuth said:
I wonder how MM contacted MS by voice on May 6 at 9pm? What phone did he have?
He was messaging her from the iPad on early hours of May 7,he even texts her saying I don't have a phone, but how did she call him at 9pm May 6?

If the assumption was that MS was driving the Yukon during the call, as he told MM he was driving, and DM in TBs truck with TB, what voice device did MS have?

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk

He obviously had a phone or some cell enabled device (identified as device 7086). I thought we heard that he had a phone provided by MM. Sometime after the call at 9:20 p.m. on the 6th, the battery may have depleted. The phone used does not show activity again until the afternoon of May 9th. MOO

https://goo.gl/KdUj0T

andreww · Apr 22, 2016

ABro said:
In Canada, not all arrests are made public via press conference or press release, but this doesn't mean they are kept "secret". Information can be obtained variously by talking to police, or by FOI requests, or by court records if the arrested person is eventually charged.

If you think about it, you can see good reasons for not automatically releasing all arrest info. It can be very damaging to reputation, especially when the arrest doesn't lead to charges. (I suspect "police blotter" policy varies from state to state in the US like mugshot release policy.)

The Friday timing is indeed curious and I suspect the jury will hear more if it's important.

While its entirely possible that some reporter could break the story early, I think it would be impossible given the media attention on this case, that one station would have news of an arrest a full 12 hours before anybody else even mentioned it.

Jen Darme · Apr 22, 2016

LoyalSleuth said:
I wonder how MM contacted MS by voice on May 6 at 9pm? What phone did he have?
He was messaging her from the iPad on early hours of May 7,he even texts her saying I don't have a phone, but how did she call him at 9pm May 6?

If the assumption was that MS was driving the Yukon during the call, as he told MM he was driving, and DM in TBs truck with TB, what voice device did MS have?

This video of exhibit 37 (at 1:23) shows:

9:19:47 PM - 7086 Smich received a text from 2790 Meneses
9:20:17 PM - 7086 Smich sent a text to 2790 Meneses
9:20:46 PM - 7086 Smich received a text from 2790 Meneses

I believe that's his phone, which he shuts off right after those msgs and doesn't turn back on until 9:18 the next morning.

[video=youtube;zyR9hgUntwI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyR9hgUntwI[/video]

Inspector_North · Apr 22, 2016

Jen Darme said:
This video of exhibit 37 (at 1:23) shows:

9:19:47 PM - 7086 Smich received a text from 2790 Meneses

9:20:17 PM - 7086 Smich sent a text to 2790 Meneses

9:20:46 PM - 7086 Smich received a text from 2790 Meneses

I believe that's his phone, which he shuts off right after those msgs and doesn't turn back on until 9:18 the next morning.

[video=youtube;zyR9hgUntwI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyR9hgUntwI[/video]

Where does he use that phone in the morning, or the proof it was turned back on?

Jen Darme · Apr 22, 2016

Inspector_North said:
Where does he use that phone in the morning, or the proof it was turned back on?

billandrew's list, also from exhibit 37:

May 7 - 9:18 am - Smich phone turned back on (flooded with messages), ping in Oakville.

ETA - I'm assuming that's the same phone referred to earlier, the video should clarify, I have to run to an appt.

Inspector_North · Apr 22, 2016

Jen Darme said:
billandrew's list, also from exhibit 37:

May 7 - 9:18 am - Smich phone turned back on (flooded with messages), ping in Oakville.

ETA - I'm assuming that's the same phone referred to earlier, the video should clarify, I have to run to an appt.

That seems to support a dead battery. By that time they were home for about an hour. MOO

Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #11

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