Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

Sillybilly · Feb 5, 2016

Please continue discussion here until the trial resumes Monday, May 2.

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Sillybilly · Feb 5, 2016

:rose: Remembering Tim Bosma and waiting for Justice :rose:

National Post

By Molly Hayes

B821254669Z.1_20130514195432_000_GQ9VSLAR.2_Content.jpg

TIM AND HIS DAUGHTER
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family

Sillybilly · Feb 11, 2016

Tim Bosma and his baby daughter
Photo courtesy of the Bosma family

Tim and Sharlene Bosma's wedding pic displayed at the memorial for Tim
from: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6258681-clairmont-sharlene-bosma-brings-loving-laughter-to-court/

andreww · Apr 29, 2016

The thing that is still lacking about Smich is his motive. Millard is getting a $20k truck, while all we hear about Smich is that he might have got $300? Smich isn't the brightest bulb in the box, and if this plan was to include murder from the beginning, I can't imagine home settling for such a ridiculously low cut.

We've heard talk of the Caddy being his payment, but why wouldn't Millard just sell the caddy and buy the truck? There is a text the morning of the 6th to MM where he says "I got a ride now". This seems an odd thing to say because he doesn't drive, of course he has a ride if he's on his way. Could he have meant that he had a car now?

I'm sure will find out more from one or both of the defence presentations.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

andreww · Apr 29, 2016

Stirner said:
Incidentally, as you point out, DM is the one who wanted the truck so why wouldn't MS bail as soon as DM shot TB? Why would he stick around and help with the incinerating of the body and the laborious all-night process of trying to clean the truck, burn the seats, etc?

Loyalty to his mentor?

ABro · Apr 29, 2016

toom said:
Nothing against crown lawyers here, (I do know some brilliant ones who take great pride in their work) but being public servants, they're relatively low on the lawyer pay-scale, and thus, to an extent, how picky the crown can afford to be when hiring them.

Crown lawyers aren't low on the pay scale at all. Walk into any big courthouse and you'll see dozens of criminal lawyers fighting to earn more than 50K a year. Criminal lawyer supply far exceeds demand.

Sure, Crowns make way less than Marie Henein and John Rosen, but the top 1 pct of lawyers is hardly a fair comparison.

Crowns make a good steady salary and have fantastic benefits. It's a highly coveted job. And while I wouldn't say Crowns are all brilliant, there is no shortage of highly qualified candidates.

andreww · Apr 29, 2016

Stirner said:
As I stated in the poll thread, I find it very strange that the majority of people here seem to think DM pulled the gun, when all the facts suggest it was MS. When DM and MS went on the test drive, DM was driving, and MS was in the back seat, while TB was in the passenger seat. TB was shot while he sat in the passenger seat. The cartridge was found in the back. All the evidence points toward the person in the back seat being the shooter. If DM had pulled a gun TB would have noticed, possibly try to grab it and fight. He'd never be able to get off a single clean fatal headshot. Only one shot was fired. MS would just have to point a gun at TB's head and shoot without TB ever being aware of what was about to happen. It's quite obvious MS pulled the trigger. Who raps about his gun and using it on people who make him 'angry', DM or MS? MS, that's who. Both these guys are total cowards, they would never confront someone with a gun, they would shoot from behind, and only one of them was behind.

I think the only thing that makes people think DM pulled the gun is schadenfreude. It feels better for some people to want the spoiled rich kid to go to prison for a long time, rather than the troubled loser. And they don't want the spoiled rich kid to 'get away' with anything, since he's obviously a thief and a narcissitic jerk.

And that brings up my other point. Unless the crown can prove a conspiracy to commit murder, rather than a truck robbery gone wrong, then only one person can be found guilty of murder, due to the fact that only one shot was fired. So unless the crown proves that they had planned to commit a murder, only one of them can be found guilty of murder.

I agree with some of your observations, however;

- front or back seat, the shell casing likely would eject in to the back seat due to it being ejected to the right of where the gun is pointed.
- significant GSR was found on the roof liner on front drivers side.
- we don't know that only one shot was fired
- we don't know it was a head shot. Smith's team hinted at a neck shot early in the trial
- certainly both can be found guilty of murder even if one shot was fired.

It doesn't seem the crown has made any attempt to show which of them actually pulled the trigger because it doesn't really matter. Because it happened during the commission of the robbery, that both of them were in on, they are both guilty of 1st degree murder. So the way I see it, Smich's only hope is to deny he was even there. The fact that Millard talks about framing him in the letters makes no difference if Smich was in on the robbery. Even Millard knows this, thus the importance of getting AM to change his testimony.

Gibson67 · Apr 29, 2016

hopingforjustice said:
CN stated today that DM wrote to her first but that she left that letter with MB. and the first letter read of today from DM was in response to her response to that letter. I didn't get that feel. I felt that this first read out letter was a response to her being the first letter writer. Remember it was noted way back when that she approached the attorney to see what she could do. I think she was told right then and there that she was on a no contact list. I think her and MB worked out the idea for MB to take letters. I think she wrote the first letter not him. Also as someone else also posted....us women are soft..as in love as she was, no way she was not keeping that first letter from her love if there was one. JMO

By the way..can any of them still be charged with breaking that order? Find it odd that MS got charged but not DM.

not sure I understand why neither crown or defence brought up the breach and extra charges on MS for his contact with MM while she was on the stand....he was actually charged for it..so why was she not questioned?

andreww · Apr 29, 2016

ABro said:
Crown lawyers aren't low on the pay scale at all. Walk into any big courthouse and you'll see dozens of criminal lawyers fighting to earn more than 50K a year. Criminal lawyer supply far exceeds demand.

Sure, Crowns make way less than Marie Henein and John Rosen, but the top 1 pct of lawyers is hardly a fair comparison.

Crowns make a good steady salary and have fantastic benefits. It's a highly coveted job. And while I wouldn't say Crowns are all brilliant, there is no shortage of highly qualified candidates.

Crown attorneys have it good. Its public defenders that are the bottom feeders.

andreww · Apr 29, 2016

Gibson67 said:
not sure I understand why neither crown or defence brought up the breach and extra charges on MS for his contact with MM while she was on the stand....he was actually charged for it..so why was she not questioned?

I suspect that MM went to the cops when contacted. In the case of CN & DM, the communications were kept secret and went both ways. Big difference.

DeepWoodsOff · Apr 29, 2016

Stirner said:
As I stated in the poll thread, I find it very strange that the majority of people here seem to think DM pulled the gun, when all the facts suggest it was MS. When DM and MS went on the test drive, DM was driving, and MS was in the back seat, while TB was in the passenger seat. TB was shot while he sat in the passenger seat. The cartridge was found in the back. All the evidence points toward the person in the back seat being the shooter. If DM had pulled a gun TB would have noticed, possibly try to grab it and fight. He'd never be able to get off a single clean fatal headshot. Only one shot was fired. MS would just have to point a gun at TB's head and shoot without TB ever being aware of what was about to happen. It's quite obvious MS pulled the trigger. Who raps about his gun and using it on people who make him 'angry', DM or MS? MS, that's who. Both these guys are total cowards, they would never confront someone with a gun, they would shoot from behind, and only one of them was behind.

I think the only thing that makes people think DM pulled the gun is schadenfreude. It feels better for some people to want the spoiled rich kid to go to prison for a long time, rather than the troubled loser. And they don't want the spoiled rich kid to 'get away' with anything, since he's obviously a thief and a narcissitic jerk.

And that brings up my other point. Unless the crown can prove a conspiracy to commit murder, rather than a truck robbery gone wrong, then only one person can be found guilty of murder, due to the fact that only one shot was fired. So unless the crown proves that they had planned to commit a murder, only one of them can be found guilty of murder.

BBM "All" the evidence? What about that pesky concentration of gunshot residue in the front, closer to the driver's side? Cartridge ejected from the right side of the gun (which is towards the back in the case of a front seat shooter.) MOO

ABro · Apr 29, 2016

andreww said:
Crown attorneys have it good. Its public defenders that are the bottom feeders.

We don't have public defenders in Canada.

Typhoo1961 · Apr 29, 2016

DeepWoodsOff said:
BBM "All" the evidence? What about that pesky concentration of gunshot residue in the front, closer to the driver's side? Cartridge ejected from the right side of the gun (which is towards the back in the case of a front seat shooter.) MOO

Plus the passenger seat window was shattered.

matou · Apr 29, 2016

Interesting that DM never writes that he did not shoot or kill Tim Bosma. Those words are not in the letters we have read about so far.

robynhood · Apr 29, 2016

JMO ...I strongly believe this was PLANNED....ad tey are both equally GUILTY it shall all be proven ...JMHO..and I believe CN is way more GUILTY also ...I am HAPPY to see the post above that she is being seen as a HOSTILE witness..............JMHO this I cannot remember is a role of crap<<<<again my honest opinion....I do believe this is JUST THE BEGINNING of unraveling a gruesome MURDER PLanned...and we have only JUST BEGUN to see the whole story ....a Huge task force has been working on this for several years......curious to see if Madeline ( Dellen's mother shows up)<<<<I would think she shall be called to the court and put on the stand soon too.....Anyone have any info on Dellen's mom taking the stand....also curious during Tori Stradford trial in was done organized in chapters....I have not seen how the trial is proceeding aside for the media saying it will take 4 mths....Swede have you seen chapters organized ....I know you followed Tori trial along with me?...........Thanks Robynhood.....Matou do do you know as I know you were on Tori's trail too?.....

musicaljoke · Apr 29, 2016

matou said:
Interesting that DM never writes that he did not shoot or kill Tim Bosma. Those words are not in the letters we have read about so far.

Noted. He doesn't explain to CN what happen, because she already knows. He's trying to control the repercussions.

mimimic · Apr 29, 2016

sillybilly said:
<rs&bbm>

Interesting because ... we know from AM that DM did say he was going to steal a truck. With DM saying he was protecting AM by not telling him 'anything', then I can only think that 'anything' must be referring to a plan to kill the owner (which plan AM did not know) of the truck they were going to steal (which plan AM did know).

Great point. Although, it's (possible) he meant what happened after the fact. When MS supposedly *screwed* up.

Inspector_North · Apr 29, 2016

At this point in the trial

I am 100% sure that shooting TB in the truck was unplanned.
I am 50% sure that DM pulled the trigger. This is based on his letters, since they seem to be for CN's eyes only
I am 80% sure that MS pulled the trigger. This based on how the "F%^$%% up" comments align, both BD's testimony and DM's letters.

There is much evidence of both being at the test drive and at the hanger using the Eliminator. So both are guilty of many things. There is also some evidence that the planning for this mission was different than other missions we heard about.
1) No Lookouts
2) Items planned for the mission, Generator, gloves, tape, and change of clothes.

There is MM's testimony of the mood in the Yukon on the morning of the 7th. Still struggling with this one.

Hopefully we hear something that adds to the mission planning that shows it was a murder mission. MS sending pictures of fireside furniture and sausage frying just before the mission is still very troubling to me.

Because the location TB was shot (in the truck), and that I believe it was unplanned to shoot him there, I am struggling with robbery or planned murder. I didn't want to be here at this point in the trial. But that's me, and my belief in knowing truth over seeing two low life's like DM and MS get worse case guess based on their creepy and disgusting world.

If I allow my emotions to weigh in, both are 100% guilty of first degree.

MOO

mimimic · Apr 29, 2016

Claroon said:
IMO Questions from me for the cross-exam. "You say you were so upset at the hotel you cried and drank all the wine, what were you upset about?" That Dellen had been caught and jailed? That you wouldn't be seeing him any time soon? Or was it that you couldn't fathom he had a connection to such an unspeakable crime and you were grief stricken over the gravity of his actions toward this family?

Did you suddenly clue into what the word "mission" meant? Did the meaning of an all-nighter come clear--he wasn't out with another woman, but busy murdering Mr. Bosma and cleaning up?

When news came out about Mr. Bosma's remains being found in the incinerator, did you suddenly put two-and-two together about why he dragged you out into the dark creepy barn that night?

When he took you to that barnyard, did you at any time fear for your life? I mean, wasn't that an unusual place to go in the middle of the night? If it were me, I might fear he was going to throw me into the incinerator in the dark, just as the wicked witch did in Hansel and Gretel?

Now that you know what he is charged with, does it make you take pause about sleeping with a man that had just cleaned up a murder scene and asked you to help him hide the evidence? Now that you know he possessed a gun, and murdered a man for no reason other than to have a thrill, does it make you fear what your future may have been if he were not caught?

Were you ever asked to be a lookout for missions? Was it normal for DM to be highly sexually stimulated after completing "missions?" All IMO.

Another....At what point did she think the "tiny mission" he needed help with was complete that night?

artemis17 · Apr 29, 2016

Stirner said:
As I stated in the poll thread, I find it very strange that the majority of people here seem to think DM pulled the gun, when all the facts suggest it was MS. When DM and MS went on the test drive, DM was driving, and MS was in the back seat, while TB was in the passenger seat. TB was shot while he sat in the passenger seat. The cartridge was found in the back. All the evidence points toward the person in the back seat being the shooter. If DM had pulled a gun TB would have noticed, possibly try to grab it and fight. He'd never be able to get off a single clean fatal headshot. Only one shot was fired. MS would just have to point a gun at TB's head and shoot without TB ever being aware of what was about to happen. It's quite obvious MS pulled the trigger. Who raps about his gun and using it on people who make him 'angry', DM or MS? MS, that's who. Both these guys are total cowards, they would never confront someone with a gun, they would shoot from behind, and only one of them was behind.

I think the only thing that makes people think DM pulled the gun is schadenfreude. It feels better for some people to want the spoiled rich kid to go to prison for a long time, rather than the troubled loser. And they don't want the spoiled rich kid to 'get away' with anything, since he's obviously a thief and a narcissitic jerk.

And that brings up my other point. Unless the crown can prove a conspiracy to commit murder, rather than a truck robbery gone wrong, then only one person can be found guilty of murder, due to the fact that only one shot was fired. So unless the crown proves that they had planned to commit a murder, only one of them can be found guilty of murder.

the whole "oh the cartridge was found in the back" thing that could be explained any number of ways. I am not trying to be devils advocate or anything of the sort but there are so many factors in regards to the location of the cartridge ( driving, how the gun was shot, angle the gun was shot from etc ) The amount of GSR in the given area is far more telling.

Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

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