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  1. #1
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    Patsy's IQ?

    I wonder, since I'm new here, has anyone, professional or otherwise, ever attempted to estimate Patsy's IQ? Maybe by analyzing her writing, her authorship of the RN (almost a fait accompli now, no?), her interviews, speaking engagements, etc? I feel this is pretty important to me as a psychologist in attempting to ascertain JR's possible dictation of parts of the RN.
    “Every person must choose how much truth he can stand.”
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  2. #2
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    Not that I know of, though I'd definitely be interested. I think she was smart in some ways. She was educated. But she, no doubt in my mind, had mental issues. I'd love to hear what a professional like you would have to say about what we know of her....and the whole family really.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Faction View Post
    I wonder, since I'm new here, has anyone, professional or otherwise, ever attempted to estimate Patsy's IQ? Maybe by analyzing her writing, her authorship of the RN (almost a fait accompli now, no?), her interviews, speaking engagements, etc? I feel this is pretty important to me as a psychologist in attempting to ascertain JR's possible dictation of parts of the RN.
    I feel this is pretty important to me as a psychologist in attempting to ascertain JR's possible dictation of parts of the RN.-ff

    Well, I'm looking forward to the illustration of this premise.

  4. #4
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    I'm new to the JBR forums and learning all the time, I spent the last several years researching and speaking on Columbine and Klebold/Harris, I just decided to check out the JBR case since I realized it was closing in on two decades since the horrible event. There's still a lot of info to take in, so please bear with me.
    “Every person must choose how much truth he can stand.”
    ― Irvin D. Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept

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    We absolutely will bear with you and look forward to hearing what you have to say. It's always nice to have fresh eyes- especially well trained ones!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Faction View Post
    I wonder, since I'm new here, has anyone, professional or otherwise, ever attempted to estimate Patsy's IQ? Maybe by analyzing her writing, her authorship of the RN (almost a fait accompli now, no?), her interviews, speaking engagements, etc? I feel this is pretty important to me as a psychologist in attempting to ascertain JR's possible dictation of parts of the RN.
    I dont know if anybody has attempted to gauge it. I am generally aware that the concept of "IQ" has gotten pretty nebulous with some cognitive scientists as the idea of what constitutes intelligence has changed. For example, having a high IQ score does not alway coorespond to having a high level of applied intelligence and vis versa.

    That aside, she went to a Catholic high school and in all probability, later took formal writing classes as part of her career in beauty pageants. In previous generations, a woman's formal writing ability could be judged as part of her poise. I think she had the inherent intelligence, education, and cultural background (the ransom note is said to reflect a cultural background assosciated with educated southerners) to have written the entire note.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 05-04-2016 at 12:16 PM.

  7. #7
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    Patsy was not a dummie. She graduated magna cum laude from the University of West Virginia with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Journalism and a minor degree in Advertising. She competed in the National Forensic Tournament (http://www.ncfl.org/gnt) with a dramatic interpretation of a scene from The Prime of Miss Jean Brody (she came in second place), which she also used for the talent portion of her Miss America participation. While she (like many "Southern Belles") could effectively feign an "innocent lack of knowledge" about any subject she chose, she could also successfully conceal her calculating intelligence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otg View Post
    Patsy was not a dummie. She graduated magna cum laude from the University of West Virginia with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Journalism and a minor degree in Advertising. She competed in the National Forensic Tournament (http://www.ncfl.org/gnt) with a dramatic interpretation of a scene from The Prime of Miss Jean Brody (she came in second place), which she also used for the talent portion of her Miss America participation. While she (like many "Southern Belles") could effectively feign an "innocent lack of knowledge" about any subject she chose, she could also successfully conceal her calculating intelligence.
    Heyya otg.

    She could also successfully conceal her calculating intelligence.- otg

    Nice turn of phrase.

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    http://www.bachelor-of-education.org/college-major-iq/

    What Does Your College Major Say About Your IQ?

    - Civil Engineering - 124

    - Communications - 111

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I dont know if anybody has attempted to gauge it. I am generally aware that the concept of "IQ" has gotten pretty nebulous with some cognitive scientists as the idea of what constitutes intelligence has changed. For example, having a high IQ score does not alway coorespond to having a high level of applied intelligence and vis versa.

    That aside, she went to a Catholic high school and in all probability, later took formal writing classes as part of her career in beauty pageants. In previous generations, a woman's formal writing ability could be judged as part of her poise. I think she had the inherent intelligence, education, and cultural background (the ransom note is said to reflect a cultural background assosciated with educated southerners) to have written the entire note.
    Patsy went to Parkersburg High School, I think it is a public school:

    from the PR 4/97 interview:
    TT; Okay. So let me back you up just a bit. What high school did you, Parkersburg, Parkersburg High School right?
    PR: Parkersburg High School.
    TT: Okay. What kind of clubs were you in? What kind of activities did you do in high school?
    PR: I was a cheerleader in the 10th grade. I was on the drill team my senior year.
    TT: Drill team?
    PR: Like a, like a dancing, with the band.
    TT: Okay. Not like a . . .(inaudible)
    PR: Pom pom kind of thing, you know, yeah, no.
    TT: Okay.
    PR: Um, I was in student government there.
    TT: Did you hold an office those senior years?
    PR: Uh, I don’t remember.
    TT: Okay.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by otg View Post
    Patsy was not a dummie. She graduated magna cum laude from the University of West Virginia with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Journalism and a minor degree in Advertising. She competed in the National Forensic Tournament (http://www.ncfl.org/gnt) with a dramatic interpretation of a scene from The Prime of Miss Jean Brody (she came in second place), which she also used for the talent portion of her Miss America participation. While she (like many "Southern Belles") could effectively feign an "innocent lack of knowledge" about any subject she chose, she could also successfully conceal her calculating intelligence.
    Very interesting post, thank you. I think if one could adequately prove that only PR authored the RN, with no assistance from JR, then one could make the logical leap that it's possible JR had NO idea what was going on until the morning when he read the RN and figured out for himself that it was PR who wrote it. This would also change my BDI hit her/JR strangled her theory to a BDI and hit her/and PR strangled her/staged the scene, leaving JR to find out for himself in the morning what the hell was going on.

    I just have a hard time believing PR wrote the whole thing all by herself without any input from JR about what to include in it. I guess we may never know, but I sure would like to try to make an educated guess at it.
    “Every person must choose how much truth he can stand.”
    ― Irvin D. Yalom, When Nietzsche Wept

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Faction View Post
    Very interesting post, thank you. I think if one could adequately prove that only PR authored the RN, with no assistance from JR, then one could make the logical leap that it's possible JR had NO idea what was going on until the morning when he read the RN and figured out for himself that it was PR who wrote it. This would also change my BDI hit her/JR strangled her theory to a BDI and hit her/and PR strangled her/staged the scene, leaving JR to find out for himself in the morning what the hell was going on.

    I just have a hard time believing PR wrote the whole thing all by herself without any input from JR about what to include in it. I guess we may never know, but I sure would like to try to make an educated guess at it.
    There could be something else relevant to add to otg’s information, since he mentioned PR was a true southern gal.

    If you study PR’s language in her personal notes and in their book DOI you may detect she enjoys wordplay with puns, acronyms and double entendres. (From IRMI To BVFMFA from PPRBSJ,” which meant, “To Barbara V. Fernie, Master of Fine Arts, from Patricia Paugh Ramsey, Bachelor of Science in Journalism.” ) On the surface, this tendency seems like a simple facet of personality, but it fits with indices of what some term Southerner indirect speech, even passive aggressive behavior.This website captures some of the flavor of this: https://wtmcclendon.wordpress.com/20...sive-behavior/

    Regarding the drafting of the RN these are a few of the puzzles I reviewed at one time -
    If one can believe her, PR told LE that it was JR and BR who picked out the movies to watch. Did she watch them as well and remember quotes from the movies? Who would most likely think of ‘a foreign faction,’ a person involved with her kids and their activities, or a person whose company is owned by a major defense contractor? JR read a lot of crime books; PR read, when she had time, novels written for women.

    A couple sites which address the authorship of the RN:
    http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-ransomnote.htm
    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...ht=DNA+testing
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberry View Post
    Patsy went to Parkersburg High School, I think it is a public school:
    Thanks for the correction. It has been a while since I read a book on the case and I mistakenly thought she went to a Catholic school.
    Quote Originally Posted by questfortrue View Post
    On the surface, this tendency seems like a simple facet of personality, but it fits with indices of what some term Southerner indirect speech, even passive aggressive behavior.This website captures some of the flavor of this: https://wtmcclendon.wordpress.com/20...sive-behavior/
    That is a good link. I have heard Georgians, Louisianians and east Texans, using this speech pattern. Though it seems to be used by more women, I have heard men use it to.

    As a side note, I think the use of this speech pattern by women was considered more lady like. The use of the speech pattern by men could well have had more violent origins. The olde South was an honor society and dueling lasted until the 1890s. My guess is that indirect speech was used by southern men because it lessened the chance of giving real or imagined offense that could lead to an escalating series of honor violations- and then a challenge.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 05-06-2016 at 11:31 AM.



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